56 replies to this topic

[Queen in the North]

Frank Merton, on 05 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Putting someone in jail is taking away their liberty and therefore wrong.  You do it then only to prevent some worse wrong -- to protect society.  There are very few cases where use of drugs requires such action to protect society.

I would say the best example of that is probably alcohol. Alcohol related violence, drunk driving, these are times when jail may be required.

[G Donnelly]

Queen in the North, on 05 March 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

I gave you the link to where it came from.


The ISCD was formed to investigate drug harm free from political pressure to say DRUGS ARE BAD, YO.

And:

which is a charity. So, not the government or a pharmaceutical company

They might be a charity but their totally unaware of prescription drugs.
Still I don't think they are being ecominical with the truth.
But I'm glad they are still be able to promote their drug- free message without government interference.
I just feel they need to be pointed in the right direction but as I said it's not their fault.
But a pharmaceutical company or government think- tank would do it intentionally.
They don't have any guilty feelings about having people hooked on prescription drugs.
Tbh Coffey is more of an expert on this than me but you could always search for Scott Tipps.
He hasn't got an official website but there might be isolated articles.
Good luck!

[Einsteinium]

Medium Brown, on 05 March 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

So basically these " before and after" photos were just used for shock and awe?

Yes, absolutely they were used for shock and awe.  Don't get me wrong meth is very bad for you, but they found the worst possible before and after pictures that they could find.

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To really hammer home the message that crystal meth is really,really bad.
But in reality they used the addicts that just took a really dodgy batch.
It's just like heroin if the manufacturers like to make their product on the cheap.
It still feels like Russian Roulette with both drugs if you want my honest opinion.

Well with meth, almost all batches are really dodgy. Just because of the nature of the manufacturing process and the fact that most people who make it do not know any chemistry, but they are just following a recipe . Batches wind up containing a lot of the chemicals used during the manufacturing process which nobody in their right mind would want to consume. Definitely is like playing Russian Roulette with both drugs!! But this is more a consequence of the fact that they are not legal. If they were legal and regulated then the purity would be consistent and known. Many of the Russian roulette type dangers with illegal drugs is not because of the pure drug itself, but because of the shoddy manufacturing processes and residual chemicals left over.

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But I'm still encouraged by the fact that you can lose weight as a consquence.
Tbh all these crystal meth addicts do have thin,emancated bodies.
But yet again that and the cracks in their face could be again due to a dodgy batch.

I have heard people jokingly call it "the Jenny crank diet", but the truth is not all people on meth lose weight. Some people even gain weight! It all depends on the individual and their reaction to the drug. It varies from person to person.

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I actually crossed swords with Riyeh over prescription drugs.
Now he's out of the picture I feel quite vindicated that I wasn't fighting a hopeless cause.
I just knew there was something not quite right about them despite them easing pain.
It's not too hard to overdose from an aspirin.
But they should have the instructions on how to take them on the outside rather than the inside.
It's makes we wonder what source that graph actually comes from.
Maybe some government think- tank or a pharmaceutical company.
It's still pretty accurate despite that glaring omission.

Here is another graph! Showing number of deaths per year from various drugs, prescription drugs included. As you can see death from prescription drug use far outweighs the deaths from all illegal drugs combined.

[Frank Merton]

I doubt that it exists, but I'd like to see some sort of age-adjusted or "years of life lost" comparison of that sort.

[ExpandMyMind]

Frank Merton, on 05 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I doubt that it exists, but I'd like to see some sort of age-adjusted or "years of life lost" comparison of that sort.

So would I. I'm sure alcohol and tobacco would come out on top again though.

[wolfknight]

Hell yes legalize pot. and only pot

[Queen in the North]

Einsteinium, on 05 March 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

Here is another graph! Showing number of deaths per year from various drugs, prescription drugs included. As you can see death from prescription drug use far outweighs the deaths from all illegal drugs combined.

So... you want prescription drugs to be illegal? Or you think if prescription drugs are legal so should all currently illegal drugs?

Maybe prescription drugs would be 'up there' with heroin and cocaine in the harm to user category, but I doubt they would have the same harm to others profile as alcohol.

Edited by Queen in the North, 05 March 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Einsteinium]

Queen in the North, on 05 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

So... you want prescription drugs to be illegal? Or you think if prescription drugs are legal so should all currently illegal drugs?

Maybe prescription drugs would be 'up there' with heroin and cocaine in the harm to user category, but I doubt they would have the same harm to others profile as alcohol.

I do not want prescription drugs to be illegal, but I do question the intent of keeping the 'illegal' drugs illegal. If the intention is to protect society, then it just makes no logical sense because drugs that are already legal cause way more harm to society and to individuals as well- as compared to the illegal drugs. I agree they would be up there right by methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin, but not as high up as alcohol. My opinion is that all the evidence shows that the scary illegal drugs really are not as scary and as bad as we have been led to believe, in fact alcohol which we all accept is the scariest and worst one out of all of them. And so therefore why are we throwing people in prison next to murderers, rapists, burglars and the like for possessing a little heroin, cocaine, meth, or marijuana even. It makes no logical sense.

btw that is a really cool GIF that you have as your signature!

Edited by Einsteinium, 05 March 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Frank Merton]

Most drugs are on prescription because the doctors like it that way and the drug companies can charge more for them.

The argument that the drug can be abused or can do harm is always raised, but it is really just a tight little monopoly.  I know because in Vietnam one can get almost anything from a licensed pharmacist, and under this system drugs are much cheaper -- a hundred or more times cheaper.

[Orcseeker]

ali smack, on 27 February 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

drugs are a thorny issue and I see both sides of the story. Clearly what is going on now isn't working.
I'm not sure what the answer is.

I created a thread a while ago about it for a solution where many seemed to agree. Though there is that stigma or fear that people have that things will fall into chaos. But really you need to ask yourself a few questions; if heroin is legalised. Are you going to go out there and start jabbing yourself with a needle?

Essentially the people who want these drugs will get them one way or another. And where does that money go? To a criminal.

So this is what happens. Criminal organisations become bigger, authorities step up to mirror their expansion and new laws; serveillance; regulations on ingredients and the market becomes more competitive and enables a lot more money to be made. Basically you can make things illegal, criminals make money, start a "war", criminals make money, make it harder to sell or acquire the drugs, criminals make money.

The answer is simple and staring us straight in the face. Though we must go about it as an informed and progressive society. People out there still think you can OD on marijuana, the misinformation out there on most drugs is astounding and just fear mongering.

We must provide the necessary education in order to curb dangerous hard drug use.

[shadowhive]

When I was in high school we had a policeman come in to tell us about the dangers of drugs. The main danger, he said, is what the drugs were cut with and those othen made the drugs many times more dangerous than they would be otherwise.

I think there needs to be some sort of regulation. What we have now isn't working. Drug addicts still get from criminals (and the money then enters criminal organisations) and the drugs supplied may be more dangerous than there pure form. If we made a way that people could get the drugs both safely and legally, we'd put those criminals out of buisness and decrese drug related deaths in one go.

[Queen in the North]

I found this interesting:

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So long as there are any restrictions as to what drugs were to be legalized, who would be able to buy them, what quantities and potencies were available, etc., a black market would fill the need. For example, if the legalizers would limit the sale of drugs to those people over twenty-one, then the black market would target children. This argument is made by David T. Courtwright, who finds potential black markets for "those under twenty-one, or for public-safety officers, or transport workers, or military personnel, or pregnant women, or prisoners, or probationers, or parolees, or psychotics. . . . "39 In order truly to defeat the black market, one not only would have to allow anyone to buy drugs, but also would have to make all forms of drugs available. William Rasberry explains that "[i]f marijuana and perhaps heroin are legalized, but not crack cocaine and violence-inducing PCP, the effect on the crime associated with drug trafficking would be minimal." Few, if any, legalizers would be willing completely to legalize all drugs for all people - but if they refuse to do so, they cannot justifiably claim to have made a significant impact on black market crime.

Source: http://druglibrary.o...yths/myths3.htm

Things are never as simple as they first appear.

[Frank Merton]

Things are never simple, but the less criminalization you have the fewer customers for the black market.