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Should Enoch be acccepted?


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Poll: Should Enoch be acccepted? (44 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Enoch be acccepted?

  1. 1. Yes, Enoch, should be included/accepted by the Vatican (14 votes [31.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.82%

  2. 2. No, it should not (explain why) (15 votes [34.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.09%

  3. 3. I don't know (3 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  4. 4. I don't care (12 votes [27.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.27%

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#46    Lamont Cranston

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Posted 27 June 2005 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE
It was never called a 'hoax'. Your knowledge on the subject is equal to a tabloid magazine. Biased and unfactual.

Actually they called it an pseudepigrapha, see below for the definition of that and note in particular the second entry: laugh.gif    

pseud·e·pig·ra·pha    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (sd-pgr-f)
pl.n.
1. Spurious writings, especially writings falsely attributed to biblical characters or times.
2. A body of texts written between 200 B.C. and A.D. 200 and spuriously ascribed to various prophets and kings of Hebrew Scriptures.
My my, even Webster sees the truth Ashley Star Child, why can't you?


"In those parts of the world where learning and science has prevailed, miracles ceased; but in those parts that are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." - Ethan Allen

#47    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:30 AM

Ok now let's see, 'I sould read the Bible'. I HAVE read the Bible, and I own several copies of the Holy Book. What reading the Bible and accepting Enoch have in corntradicion is beyond me when the very footnotes of Jude, and several other books quote Enoch's book by VERSE!

Oh how intelligent of you Lamont. If you you were intelligent enough to realize that has been brought up about 50 TIMES on this very thread and I have counteracted it. Oh, but wait there's more, and it's up for debate. Wouldn't want to give too much away. Enjoy being lulled into your false sense of security. thumbsup.gif


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#48    Lamont Cranston

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:43 AM

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that has been brought up about 50 TIMES on this very thread and I have counteracted it.

Yes, it has been brought up 50 times or more, and no, you have never conteracted it.  What you seem to have done is close your eyes, stick you fingers in your ears and went "LA LA LA" very loudly to drown out the evidence that you didn't want to hear!  That is hardly counteracting.  Give evidence of one place that the book of Enoch was accepted as part of the bible or torah.

"In those parts of the world where learning and science has prevailed, miracles ceased; but in those parts that are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." - Ethan Allen

#49    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:49 AM

Yes yes yes, keep typing your idle insults.


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#50    Lamont Cranston

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:54 AM

Rest assured, as long as you post garbage, I will post what you consider insults!

"In those parts of the world where learning and science has prevailed, miracles ceased; but in those parts that are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue." - Ethan Allen

#51    joc

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 11:56 AM

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With all due respect man DID indeed put the Bible together, you surely don't believe it placed itself together now do you?


I believe that God put the Bible together using Man as the tool.  

However, if you wish to believe that Enoch was the end all of end alls then please feel free to include it in 'your' Bible.  The fact is that Enoch doesn't matter a hill of beans to the ultimate 'truth' of the Bible ...which is that Jesus came and died for our sins and that if we accept his sacrifice we are forgiven by God.

Edited by joc, 29 June 2005 - 11:57 AM.

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#52    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 12:57 PM

No, actually, it does matter, it matters alot, for all the billions of points I've already laid out.


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#53    Paranoid Android

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Posted 29 June 2005 - 03:30 PM

QUOTE(joc @ Jun 29 2005, 09:56 PM)
QUOTE
With all due respect man DID indeed put the Bible together, you surely don't believe it placed itself together now do you?


I believe that God put the Bible together using Man as the tool.  

However, if you wish to believe that Enoch was the end all of end alls then please feel free to include it in 'your' Bible.  The fact is that Enoch doesn't matter a hill of beans to the ultimate 'truth' of the Bible ...which is that Jesus came and died for our sins and that if we accept his sacrifice we are forgiven by God.

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Excellently put  thumbsup.gif



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#54    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 01:52 AM

I do tend to disagree.


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#55    wise_steward

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 08:53 PM

Hi all,
A little while back I came across a christian forum where some guy had posted a book he claimed God gave him that includes the pseudoepigraphic writings of Enoch and some others. I cut and paste the link for anyone interested.

THE CALLED" - by Rahman Reuben - Chapters 1 to 3 - http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/v...289&forum=35&29

I read the three chapters and found them so interesting. This guy got a lot of heat from some on that forum for mixing the Bible with these other books but what I read made me want to read the rest so I bought the book off Amazon -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&v=glance

All I can say is I have read Genesis before but after reading this book it makes a lot more sense now. I also did some more research on Wickepedia about the Enoch book and found that it is included as canon in the ethiopian church but not in the western church.The Enoch book was tossed out in 326 a.d. by a Catholic counsel at Laodicea. It also says that the book of Jude was almost not included in the Bible because it quoted from this book. Kinda weird to me why a book that seems to fill in the blanks of the first couple of chapters of Genesis so well is so rejected. It has sure made me wonder why since it talks about hell so much. More rings true to me in this book of Enoch than not. I hope this guys book really takes off just for the controversy of discussion it could cause in our western church.  


#56    Ashley-Star*Child

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:31 AM

Wow, almost forgot about this thread. Thanks for bringing it back up. thumbsup.gif

Quote


Hi all,
A little while back I came across a christian forum where some guy had posted a book he claimed God gave him that includes the pseudoepigraphic writings of Enoch and some others. I cut and paste the link for anyone interested.

THE CALLED" - by Rahman Reuben - Chapters 1 to 3 - http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/v...289&forum=35&29

I read the three chapters and found them so interesting. This guy got a lot of heat from some on that forum for mixing the Bible with these other books but what I read made me want to read the rest so I bought the book off Amazon -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&v=glance

All I can say is I have read Genesis before but after reading this book it makes a lot more sense now. I also did some more research on Wickepedia about the Enoch book and found that it is included as canon in the ethiopian church but not in the western church.The Enoch book was tossed out in 326 a.d. by a Catholic counsel at Laodicea. It also says that the book of Jude was almost not included in the Bible because it quoted from this book. Kinda weird to me why a book that seems to fill in the blanks of the first couple of chapters of Genesis so well is so rejected. It has sure made me wonder why since it talks about hell so much. More rings true to me in this book of Enoch than not. I hope this guys book really takes off just for the controversy of discussion it could cause in our western church.  



Then he and I have something in common.


Now Cranston and the others who voted 'no', I'll just have you know I WON that debate. Have a nice life. grin2.gif


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#57    Beckys_Mom

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 04:55 AM

Quote


I believe that God put the Bible together using Man as the tool.  

However, if you wish to believe that Enoch was the end all of end alls then please feel free to include it in 'your' Bible.  The fact is that Enoch doesn't matter a hill of beans to the ultimate 'truth' of the Bible ...which is that Jesus came and died for our sins and that if we accept his sacrifice we are forgiven by God.
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Excellently put  thumbsup.gif

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#58    draconic chronicler

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 10:51 PM

Unless one simply accepts that the leaders of the Catholic Church were divinely guided as to which scriptural works to retain and which to discard, then Enoch and all of the other so called "lost books" should be contained in the "perfect Bible", and then let the reader, rather than some long dead theologians  decide if these books have merit to them.

While most authorities agree it is much later than the original old testament canon, it is still much older, and therefor no more "fake" than new testament scripture.  There can be no doubt that Jesus and his disciples were familiar with this work and it would be foolish to ignore any biblical writings that allows to to gain further insights into the understanding  of Judaism in the period between the old and new testaments.

Enoch is filled with little tidbits of information which helps solve little biblical mysteries.  In the original Hebrew text, the Seraphim servants of God are quite literally winged, fiery serpents or dragons, yet the Roman Catholic Church turned them into winged humanoids like the familar dieties of pagan Greece and Rome.  Enoch adds further proof to the hebrew scriptures by confirming the exact same thing in its Greek text, that the Seraphim are indeed a kind of winged serpent or dragon and not a humanoid angel.

We now know as well, that "lucifer" is nothing more than a translator's mistake, indicating there was no fallen angel that revolted from God out of pride.  Instead, in Enoch we see verification that the fallen angels did so, not due to a pagan dualistic notion of a ficticious "war in heaven", but simply their desire to have sex with human women, which in fact, is far more in harmony with the old testament, than with the zorastrian mythology that fills the new testament.  Perhaps it is small wonder then, why the catholic church became unfortable with what Enoch reveals.

Edited by draconic chronicler, 28 January 2006 - 10:55 PM.





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