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The Qur'aan Cosmological Model


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#166    al-amiyr

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 15 November 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Well second reading through startling to get it more.

Every time you read it over again it will become even clearer. Remember there are still many points I must clarify but I cannot do it all at once. We are going to get to very interesting matters. You will become astounded when you see how in great detail these two QCM verses are going to take us. In my next QCM post I am clarifying why the Qur'aan says "that the samaawaat and the ‘arD were both Ratqan and so We Fataq them both again."? The best thing to do is take some notes and learn the terms.
Another thing is that I have been wondering from the day I entered this forum a few days ago about your chosen avatar. What does it signify? Is it representing a spider web with two living creatures in it blocking the way to a secret place. I am just wondering. Can you tell me more?
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#167    Seeker79

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 07:17 PM

View Postal&#045;amiyr, on 15 November 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:



Every time you read it over again it will become even clearer. Remember there are still many points I must clarify but I cannot do it all at once. We are going to get to very interesting matters. You will become astounded when you see how in great detail these two QCM verses are going to take us. In my next QCM post I am clarifying why the Qur'aan says "that the samaawaat and the ‘arD were both Ratqan and so We Fataq them both again."? The best thing to do is take some notes and learn the terms.
Another thing is that I have been wondering from the day I entered this forum a few days ago about your chosen avatar. What does it signify? Is it representing a spider web with two living creatures in it blocking the way to a secret place. I am just wondering. Can you tell me more?
It's a native American dream catcher.

http://en.m.wikipedi...tcher#section_1

I haven't chosen a particular inturpretation, but for me the interconnected lines have meaning about the interconnection of all things in creation.

I'm also what some might call a dreamer. So the corolation of the web that catches dreams has meaning for me.
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#168    Lion6969

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:42 PM

View Postal&#045;amiyr, on 15 November 2012 - 01:29 AM, said:



Why the continuation of irrelevant discussions in this thread when I have already asked nicely via PM not to do so because it is creating distractions.
I have basically slowed down my own posting because of this. Initially I said it was fine. Now and then a little deviation is welcoming e.g. like aiming to hit the mark for humor. Strike what I present here and break it down. Then all can learn. Thanks!

Irrelevant? I don't think so, not entirely. You brought up this thread with a cosmological model theorised from quranic verses. Initially the responses were that your flawed, or counter arguments came connected with theories not based on established facts. I've been filtering that out, pointing out the logical flaws and philosophical flaws.

I will apply the same to your theory, hence my questions.

Rattan, as I said was unification of mass it's reference to the singularity, is it not? So I answered it now you answer my questions please.

I will stick to the topic, although I was blamed for the tangent :(

#169    al-amiyr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

View PostLion6969, on 16 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Irrelevant? I don't think so, not entirely. You brought up this thread with a cosmological model theorised from quranic verses. Initially the responses were that your flawed, or counter arguments came connected with theories not based on established facts. I've been filtering that out, pointing out the logical flaws and philosophical flaws.

I will apply the same to your theory, hence my questions.

Rattan, as I said was unification of mass it's reference to the singularity, is it not? So I answered it now you answer my questions please.

I will stick to the topic, although I was blamed for the tangent :(

Do not take it seriously! You are still the best. I missed your presence yesterday .You made the most contributions and all worthy of consideration. But I saw how others also distracted you and I thought that I will rather fight with my good friend than with others. Now he can turn all his roaring Lion energies to tear apart this QCM. Like it is written in the Qur'aan and I quote,

"And what is the matter with them that they flee from the guidance? As if they are donkeys fleeing from a Lion."

I will reply later to your questions. Just finishing something else. Please go to the thread The Qur'aan Lexicographical model.
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#170    Lion6969

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

View Postal&#045;amiyr, on 16 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:



Do not take it seriously! You are still the best. I missed your presence yesterday .You made the most contributions and all worthy of consideration. But I saw how others also distracted you and I thought that I will rather fight with my good friend than with others. Now he can turn all his roaring Lion energies to tear apart this QCM. Like it is written in the Qur'aan and I quote,

"And what is the matter with them that they flee from the guidance? As if they are donkeys fleeing from a Lion."

I will reply later to your questions. Just finishing something else. Please go to the thread The Qur'aan Lexicographical model.

Your words are too kind brother and I am really enjoying your intelligent eloquent posts. Keep them going and I will stick to the topic and help where it's possible and correct :)

I have no wish to tear the QCM apart brother, but by nature I am critical and analytical the very same approach that brought me to islam in the first place and adopt this way of life. I don't wish to tear anything apart I just like to approach things critically. Critical thinking is lacking in the world today, most people have dumbed themselves down to accept what they see hear smell taste, told, reported, theories, religious dogma, etc etc blindly and easily. I'm just cautious maybe too much lol ;)

I'm reading the other thread too, takes more to digest though, alot of information.....don't worry I'm following both. I do disappear for sometime due to work etc, but always return, inshallah :)

#171    al-amiyr

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:02 PM

You can refer back to the following posts  #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 #23 #26 #27 #58 #61 #71#139 #157 and 162.

A very important point not to forget.

Why does the Qur'aan state the cosmological facts as follows:

"that the samaawaat and the ‘arD were both Ratqan fa (and so) We Fataq them both again."?

Because of the manner in which the Qur'aan stated the cosmological facts the following two questions spring to mind:
1)- does the Qur'aan say that the ‘arD is a separate and unique entity in the Universe?
2)- does the Qur'aan say that the ‘arD was already in existence at the birth of the Universe?

If we look at the Qur'aanic verse and even examine it a little more deeper it would appear as if the Qur'aan is actually saying that. But that perception or conclusion is not exactly true. And it is because of this inaccurate conclusion of the lack of the proper understanding of the correct meaning of the verse that all the confusion begins and then all sorts of wild statements are made by those who claim the Qur'aan to be scientific and those who assert that it is not.
And it is also because of this inaccurate conclusion that has led to the confusion which caused the Muslim scholars to deliberately falsify the translations by removing or not including the word 'both' from or in the actual translation of the original verb which is in the dual form.
In other words the Qur'aan states 'kaanataa' 'both of them were' or 'the two of them were' or 'they two were' and then the translators took it upon themselves to transform it into 'they were' or 'were'. That is why it is sacrilegious to translate the Books of ALLAAH into other languages without providing detailed explanations.

Of the approximately seventy Qur'aan translations that I have examined so far I have found only two translations which have faithfully included the dual in their translations. Not to say that the other parts of their translations are not without gave errors. It will surprise many that both of these translations that translated the verse correctly with the dual included were not made by Muslim translators but by surprisingly by non Muslim ones. In my opinion it would not be going too far to say that a common trait in man is that he loves to exaggerate when it suites him and he loves to hang on and to invent or follow explanations to that of which he knows little or nothing of.

Let us now examine precisely what the Qur'aan is exactly saying. It is well worth mentioning that when one has sufficiently studied the Qur'aan and the other important teachings of the Prophet (S+) one will immediately know that this verse is referring to three things simultaneously. In other words three different independent matters are being discussed providing the reader with factual information for observation and consideration.

Let us see what it is!

1)- the samaawaat

2)- the ‘arD

3)- the samaawaat and the ‘arD

To understand this better let us make a comparison with something else: 'the school and the principal were both famous'

There are three clear possibilities of understanding what was said.

1)- the school

2)- the principal

3)- the school and the principal

In the first example it is referring to the whole school; the students; the teachers; and the principal. There was none that was specifically famous; none that stood out from the rest. Just the whole school that was famous.

In the second example it is referring only to the principal; not to the school as a whole; not to the students; and not to the teachers. There was only one who was specifically famous; one that stood out from the rest. And it was just the principal who was alone famous.

In the third example it is referring to the whole school generally as well as to the principal specifically. It was not only the school as a whole that was famous but also the principal who in his own right was also famous.

Likewise as in our example the same rule applies to the mentioned Qur'aanic cosmological verse. Let us see!

In the first example it is referring to the whole of space and everything that it contains including the earth which is a body moving in that space. In other words it is referring to the whole universe; i.e. the sun, the moon, the stars,the galaxies and everything else including the earth. And it says that all these entities comprising the universe were Ratqan fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. brought together as one unified entity for the purpose of breaking it apart again to form the universe).

In the second example it is referring to the earth alone and no other entity in the universe; not to the sun; not the moon; not to the stars etc. but only to the earth specifically. It says that once upon a time the earth was also Ratqan fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. brought together as one unified entity (previous continents came together to form Pangaea and then again split to form the seven continents which are still spreading apart to this day).

In the third example it is referring to both what happened in the universe as well as what happened to the earth. Both underwent their own Ratqan fa (and so) Fataq and both were part of a united Ratqan fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. the whole of space and everything that it contains including the earth were once upon a time in a state that was brought together as one unified entity for the purpose of breaking it apart again to form the universe which is in an observed accelerated expansion to this day.

So there you have it in a nutshell. A great amount of details all applying to two different phenomena simultaneously. Now I will leave you with a quotation with what the Prophet (S+) of the Qur'aan had said one thousand four hundred years ago.

The Book of Bukhari Volume 9. Book 87. Number 141
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying.
"I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e. the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings).
and
I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy)
and
while I was sleeping the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand."
Muhammad (S+) said. Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet .


If you need to know more about this just ask and I shall elaborate.


Ratq to be continued inshaa allaah (if God had willed).


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#172    Lion6969

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:26 AM

AlAmiyr

So the verses in question when broken down to the roots describe the state of universe and everything within it coming together as a unified mass, this was then cleft asunder, separated and expanded. However the verse not only relates that but also that the earth was also unified and then separated and expanded so to speak into the continents. Wow that's amazing, so much depth in such few words. Reminds of a book written by an English academic who decided to study the Quran linguistically, structurally, form etc etc etc, it's an amazing piece of work, the academic became Muslim as a result as what he discovered was truly outstanding, the Quran selection of words, placement, form, structure, linguistic power, prowess, eloquence, mechanisms, etc etc were absolutely perfect in every sense. Truly beyond human or natures capacity to reproduce! I will pm you the book name one I can remember or source it again :)

Keep going

#173    Lion6969

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:03 AM

Neil Robinson

Discovering the Quran, A contemporary Approach to a veiled text.

You will enjoy I believe and information which may further help you with your theory etc

:)

#174    Abramelin

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:53 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 13 November 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

What predictions does this model make that we have not discovered yet? There in is what lies the usefulness of any theory.

Waiting till the end of time is hardly an option to see Amiyr's theory proven.

But what he said here could be proven:

View Postal-amiyr, on 13 November 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:


Yes it does explain the brain in great detail. My niece is now one of the best brain surgeons in the world. She is only 29 years and lecture in conferences all over the world. They made a special department for her at the hospital. She has already worked on more than thirty brains herself. I have been giving her much info about the Qur'aan and the Brain over many years. I can discuss this subject in great detail. But your asking appears more like making fun other than being truly truthful about the matter.

I'd like to read more about that.

But I am only on page 5 or 6 of this thread, so it may already have been answered by Amiyr.

#175    al-amiyr

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

View PostLion6969, on 17 November 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

Neil Robinson

Discovering the Quran, A contemporary Approach to a veiled text.

You will enjoy I believe and information which may further help you with your theory etc

:)

Thanks for letting me know about the book. I will try to get hold of it.
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#176    Mnemonix

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:16 PM

Maybe you could put up a link where those interested can read your article in full.

Just for ease of access?

Wishing you peace, love and happiness, brother/sister.


#177    Lion6969

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

I for one would like you to see the thesis in it's entirety rather being drip fed. Then again, some of that information is hard to digest and elaboration and explanation is mire than welcome....for some of us it maybe easier to digest in bits.

:)

#178    Seeker79

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:46 AM

View PostLion6969, on 17 November 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I for one would like you to see the thesis in it's entirety rather being drip fed. Then again, some of that information is hard to digest and elaboration and explanation is mire than welcome....for some of us it maybe easier to digest in bits.

:)
And rightly so.  I often cannot express the things I teach with bits and pieces at a time. Then people acuse me if being cryptic... Then, When I say what I think I know.., im trying to be a guru... I know more than some...  Not as much as others.. That's the only claim any of us have.

Teachers are leaders which means the people learning must be led. At the end we we can come to our own conclusions. And our friend here has already accomplished goal number one. I'm already more interested in Islamic scripture and philosophy. I'm still waiting to see if it's on par with the bible code or Nostradamus but that is entirely up in the air.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 November 2012 - 03:52 AM.

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#179    kylixguru

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:03 AM

View PostDarkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

I don't believe any book is divine, they all come from the hand of man. Just paper and ink, not worth a mans or womans life.   I'm a Pagan, child of the earth, we have no sacred texts, what we learn is from nature. Which is why I read a lot of science.  I try not to mix my religious practice and science, because they are two different things, like oil and water.
Truth encompasses both religion and science. If you try and separate them from one another then you will fail to appreciate Truth in either.

#180    al-amiyr

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostMnemonix, on 17 November 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Maybe you could put up a link where those interested can read your article in full.

Just for ease of access?

Unfortunately there is no complete article in written form. What you see here is how far I am up to now. I hope to finish the next 100 pages within the next month. The notes are all scattered and I shall bring them together as one united entity and then spread them apart across the world for healthy debate inshaa allaah (if God had willed).
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