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reintroducing corporal punishment in schools?


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#76    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

View PostMedium Brown, on 04 March 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Before I say something I would like to quote a bit of James Stannage...
Reward the good behaviour and ignore the bad.
So with that in mind I'm against corporal punishment.
Surely there's better ways of making an attitude adjustment.
Because in my eyes violence begets violence.
Parents and schoolteachers need to be more lenient instead whacking their kids backside with a slipper or cane.
It just sounds too much like boot camp.
If your kids have got an psychological problem see a shrink or social worker.
However some kids are so scarred by sexual abuse it seems like there's no easy way out.

It has been shown ignoring bad behavior just causes one to go and do something worse either because they got away with something once without consequences might aswell do it again and again.No lesson is learned other than hey i can do what i want.Then you have the ones who act out for attention so if ignored the first time then just go and do something bigger and better to grab the attention.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#77    redhen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:45 PM

Here's a page from Robert Heinlein's 1959 book Starship Troopers. It deals with corporal punishment and lack thereof. The moral of the story; more corporal punishment leads to less capital punishment.


#78    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

View Postredhen, on 04 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Here's a page from Robert Heinlein's 1959 book Starship Troopers. It deals with corporal punishment and lack thereof. The moral of the story; more corporal punishment leads to less capital punishment.

Explains how things are very well,that link should be sent to every leader and school teacher in this country.If there are 0 deterents or consequences for ones actions,then who can say what is right or wrong in any society.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#79    Bonecrusher

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 04 March 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:



It has been shown ignoring bad behavior just causes one to go and do something worse either because they got away with something once without consequences might aswell do it again and again.No lesson is learned other than hey i can do what i want.Then you have the ones who act out for attention so if ignored the first time then just go and do something bigger and better to grab the attention.
So in a nutshell if you let them kids will go on the rampage.
They need corporal punishment as a further warning that their behaviour won't be tolerated.
But my cousins didn't have to endure corporal punishment when they were kids.
And yet they ended up well adjusted and mature due to tolerant parenting skills.
So there's no need for corporal punishment if the kids are made to feel equal and well loved.
But not all parents are like that as you well know and corporal punishment could be the only way out.
You might scoff and think that my uncles and aunts didn't instil the concept of what's right and wrong.
I don't know how they accomplished it without corporal punishment which is where Stannage comes in.
However Stannage did have an holier than thou attitude when he calls  young un's sad little sperms.
Despite all this I prefer fifty lashes than being hooked up to the National Grid.
Redhen might not be far off the mark.

Edited by Medium Brown, 04 March 2013 - 03:11 PM.

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#80    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

View PostMedium Brown, on 04 March 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

So in a nutshell if you let them kids will go on the rampage.
They need corporal punishment as a further warning that their behaviour won't be tolerated.
But my cousins didn't have to endure corporal punishment when they were kids.
And yet they ended up well adjusted and mature due to tolerant parenting skills.
So there's no need for corporal punishment if the kids are made to feel equal and well loved.
But not all parents are like that as you well know and corporal punishment could be the only way out.
You might scoff and think that my uncles and aunts didn't instil the concept of what's right and wrong.
I don't know how they accomplished it without corporal punishment which is where Stannage comes in.
However Stannage did have an holier than thou attitude when he calls  young un's sad little sperms.
Despite all this I prefer fifty lashes than being hooked up to the National Grid.
Redhen might not be far off the mark.

I agree with you saying it should be situational.Some children are very well behaved and try to avoid trouble no punishment has to be given to them.One of the main problems now days is the breakdown of traditional family values.The tv is now everyones favorite babysitter,adults would rather act like teenagers,and if one runs around spitting out kids or impregnating any woman they meet no worries the gov will step up and use responsible working peoples tax money to make up for said persons lack of responsibility.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#81    shrooma

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 04 March 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:



I agree with you saying it should be situational.Some children are very well behaved and try to avoid trouble no punishment has to be given to them.
.
that's the whole problem with studies into corporal punishment king, they only focus on the people it didn't work for-the disruptive kids who were punished all the time, and completely fail to take into account the millions of kids it DID work for-the ones who weren't punished because it was an effective deterrent!

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#82    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:26 PM

View Postshrooma, on 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

.
that's the whole problem with studies into corporal punishment king, they only focus on the people it didn't work for-the disruptive kids who were punished all the time, and completely fail to take into account the millions of kids it DID work for-the ones who weren't punished because it was an effective deterrent!

10 likes for what you just said!Some people will be trouble makers no matter what until locked up and put away.The thought of consequences for ones actions is the best deterent you can give to teach lessons about how to act.If the line gets crossed then action must be taken.These studies are BS and as you said they are looked at with only half a brain to come to there conclusions.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#83    shrooma

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostCrimsonKing, on 04 March 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

These studies are BS and as you said they are looked at with only half a brain to come to there conclusions.
.
you can guarantee that if these studies had been done in the 1920's, the conclusions they reached wouldn't have been the same as they were in the 1980's.....

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#84    CrimsonKing

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:50 PM

View Postshrooma, on 04 March 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

.
you can guarantee that if these studies had been done in the 1920's, the conclusions they reached wouldn't have been the same as they were in the 1980's.....

Damn straight they wouldnt,and each and every person who was studied that got punished would have taken their punishment and walked away saying sir or maam on their way out the door!

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#85    J. K.

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

I can't give statistics, just general observations.  A majority of students are well-behaved, another group doesn't care about learning and is nearly always a distraction, and another group sits on the fence and can go either way.  I do wish there was an effective way of rewarding the good behavior, and making punishment removal of privileges.  However, my well of ideas is totally dry.

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#86    Bonecrusher

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 06:12 PM

It seems to me  there's three types of children..

The ones that are similar to how my cousins were raised up.
The ones that come from a really violent background.
And the ones that are spoilt little brats who hope their dad's money will bail them out.
^^^ Who use emotional blackmail if their  trust fund has suddenly stopped.
So who's the best candidate for corporal punishment?
If you want my honest opinion none of them for very different reasons.
If a kid comes from a violent environment,corporal punishment is just a continuation.
When they become parents they will just follow in their own's footsteps.
Why mess about with perfection when they are good as gold.
While the spoilt brats will eventually mature enough to know that cash isn't a mean to an ends.
We need to concentrate on the ones from a violent background first.

Edited by Medium Brown, 04 March 2013 - 06:36 PM.

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#87    redhen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

View Postshrooma, on 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

.
that's the whole problem with studies into corporal punishment king, they only focus on the people it didn't work for-the disruptive kids who were punished all the time, and completely fail to take into account the millions of kids it DID work for-the ones who weren't punished because it was an effective deterrent!

This is a general problem with psychology (except for humanistic psychology), it focuses solely on those with "mental disorders". If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.


#88    smurf0852

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

i havent read through the thread but i will put my opinion in here.i was caned on my hands at school for the great sin of saying i didnt believe in god and refusing to say the lords prayer in a morning assembley.it wasnt a religious school and i wasnt being disruptive all i did was when everyone bowed there heads to pretend they cared i didnt .i sat up straight in silence and kept my mouth shut.
for this i was dragged out in front of the whole school by some sadistic prick who though it was his right to hit kids he didnt agree with .i was then hit 3 times on each hand with a cane on the stage in the hall in front of the whole school.
i think he was getting aroused at the thought of making a 13 year old cry or something but all he got was me laughing in his face and telling him to **** off .
it made me hate authority, up to that point i was a good kid in fact my peers used to call me the professor because i used to work so hard at school.after that i thought why the **** do i suck up to these set of vindictive b******* and rebeled.
if anyone teacher or not hit one of my sons i would grab them and beat them in front of there work mates until they screamed like girls .


#89    ciriuslea

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 01:27 AM

I wouldnt rule it out, as kids need the whole range of punishments, some just need a stern chat others need a more harsher punishment, the problem lies when a smack doesn't work and it creeps up to two or three then gets harder and turns into abuse.





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