Copernicus via the Ouija board

[IronGhost]

Hi all, it's been awhile since I posted any of my Ouija transcripts here on good old UM, but I thought I would make a brief return and share an interesting file -- I'm in the process of putting together my massive three-volume book documenting my now nearly 50 years of Ouija work.

This is a transcript in which we attempted to contact the `15th-16th Century Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus -- the connection was made by another Ouija entity we had made a connection with on an earlier occasion -- this entity we call "The Helix Master."

I first introduced UM readers to the Helix Master here: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=117841

I strongly recommend you read the above before or after you read this transcript so that you can get an idea about what kind of entity the Helix Master is, and our strange relationship with him (It?)

Anyway -- what follows is a section from my forthcoming Ouija book "Secrets of the Lost Ouija Board Files"

------

Something else the Helix Master said was extremely intriguing. You will recall that he (or It?) said that there were “many people” who were eager to speak with us. I almost forgot about this until I went back and reviewed the original transcript. The Helix Master said he had selected the lowly and obscure Jalmer Klegseth “by random” to connect with us. Naturally, then, I began to wonder who some of these “many others” were that wanted to chat.

And another thought: If the Helix was truly a cosmic repository of the encoded-memory-personality of possibly everyone that has lived, the implications are obvious and exciting. Could the Helix Master put us in touch with, say, Socrates? How about George Washington? The Pharaoh Rameses II? Isaac Newton? Genghis Khan? Jim Morrison?

I decided to test the theory. I organized another session in which I was determined to raise the Helix Master again, and ask to be put in touch with a famous individual from history.

My choice was the famous Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus, the 15^th-16^th Century genius who revolutionized astronomy by proposing that the earth was not the center of the solar system, but rather, just another planet orbiting the sun. As you may know, prior to Copernicus, the scientific paradigm – and the religious dogma of the Catholic Church – held that our planet earth was the center of the universe. All planets, the sun, even the distant stars were believed to revolve around the earth.

Copernicus was not just an astronomer, but an important official within the Catholic Church. He was a Church Canon, meaning he performed a powerful administrative role as a specialist in Canon Law. Back in those days, a Bishop ruled his diocese or territory much like a feudal lord. As a Church Canon, Copernicus was almost equally as influential as the bishop. The uncle of Copernicus, in fact, was Bishop Lukas Watzenrode, whose territory was Varmia, a region of northern Poland.

In addition to being a Church legal/administrative official, Copernicus was a medical doctor, having studied medicine in Rome, where he had also earned his doctorate in Canon Law.

But astronomy and mathematics were his obsessions. He is known to history primarily as an astronomer because he shattered of the cosmological status quo with his publication of “On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres.” This document was not published until after his death in 1543. He delayed publication until after his passing, fearing persecution from his own Catholic Church, despite being a powerful cleric for the church in his region.

About a century later, the Italian astronomer Galileo would become the greatest champion of the Copernican system, for which he was silenced, threatened with death, and then imprisoned under house arrest by Church authorities.

Much like people fear demonic activity associated with the Ouija board today, the Catholic Church of 500 years ago was laboring under a false belief system, which caused it to fear and persecute some of its own most brilliant and loyal followers.

But I digress … as I said, after my initial conversation with the Helix Master, I decided to have a second go with this entity, this time to see if It could put me in touch with Copernicus.

So the he session was conducted with my friend Brian, and Darcy acting as recorder. The session begins:

Opening Statement: We are seeking contact with that entity whom we have come to know as the Helix Master. Will you come forth?

(Note: Without the delay, the planchette began prowling the board, choosing letters, forming words, then sentences.)

ANSWER: THE HELIX MASTER, AS YOU CALL ME.

Question: Hello, Helix Master! We are extraordinarily delighted to meet with you again! How are you today? How is everything in the Helix today?

ANSWER: YOUR QUESTIONS WOULD SEEM FRIVILOUS.

Question: Yes, perhaps. But in our culture it is considered polite to ask about one’s general welfare and sense of personal happiness upon greeting. We realize that you are not a human being focused in physical reality, but we extend our tradition to you anyway.

ANSWER: I UNDERSTAND.

Question: Helix Master what exactly is your nature? For example, are you an entity composed of pure energy, or do you have material or physical qualities?

ANSWER: I AM INCOPORATED INTO THE HELIX.

Question: What is the physical nature of the Helix?

ANSWER: YOUR TERMS ARE NOT ADEQUATE.

Question: So the Helix is not a construct of physical matter?

ANSWER: IT IS ORGANIZED ACCORDING TO THE PRINICPLES OF THAT GROUNDING WHICH COMPOSES REALITY, AS YOU WOULD CONSIDER REALITY, BUT NOT IN DISCRETE FORM.

Question: Could it be said that the fundamental nature of the Helix is pure energy?

ANSWER: YOUR CONCEPTIONS ARE TOO SIMPLE.

Question: Okay, we’ll leave it there for now. Helix Master, we eagerly desire to communicate with a specific human being who once lived in a physical body, as we define the term physical. This human being was identified as Nicolaus Copernicus. He was a famous astronomer. In our terms, and within our framework of reckoning time, this individual was born into our reality in the year 1473 and his physical body vehicle ceased to function in the year 1543. Can you locate Nicolaus Copernicus on the Helix and put us into contact with him?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Please do so.

ANSWER: PROCEED.

(Nervously …)

Question: Dr. Copernicus? Are you there?

ANSWER: ENOUGH OF ME IS HERE.

Question: What do you mean by that, the “enough of me” comment?

ANSWER: DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT. THAT PERSON YOU WISH TO SPEAK TO IS HERE.

Question: Are you the great Polish astronomer we know from our history accounts, the man who wrote On The Revolutions of the Spheres and developer of the heliocentric theory of the solar system?

ANSWER: YES, I DID THAT.

Question: Wow! Now that I am connected to you, I hardly know what to ask. Do you know you are dead?

ANSWER: THERE IS NO DEATH. IF I WAS NOT ALIVE NOW, HOW COULD I BE SPEAKING WITH YOU?

Question: Yes, perhaps what we should say is that you have transitioned away and out of your former physical body, and your existence continues in another realm, a non-physical realm. Right?

ANSWER: ASPECTS OF MYSELF CONTINUE TO MANIFEST IN PHYSICAL MATTER, WHILE MOST DOES NOT.

Question: Okay, we’ll leave that huge subject aside for now. Dr. Copernicus, what can you tell me of the Helix? Are you aware of it? We have reason to believe that your existence, such as it is, is encoded on something called The Helix? What is your view?

ANSWER: THERE IS MUCH ABOUT THE NATURE OF REALITY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

Question: But certainly you can make at least a brief statement about this Helix we speak of?

ANSWER: IT WOULD SERVE NO PURPOSE IN YOUR CASE.

Question: Does the Helix exist or does it not exist?

ANSWER: YOU CANNOT ASK AN ILLOGICAL QUESTION TO RECEIVE A LOGICAL ANSWER.

Question: Fair enough. We’ll drop the question of the Helix for now, too. Um … do you have complete memory of your time on earth? You lived in what is today northern Poland. You lived in Frombork, which is also called Frauenburg.

ANSWER: THAT LIFE IS A PART OF ME, YES.

Question: Were you happy? Did you have a happy life?

ANSWER: I WAS A HUMAN BEING BOTH HAPPY AND SAD AS THOSE THINGS EBB AND FLOW.

Question: Overall, would you say that your life had been fulfilling and more happy than sad?

ANSWER: IT WAS A REMARKABLE LIFE, AS THEY ALL ARE.

Question: I take it that you refer to the idea that perhaps you have experienced numerous incarnation on earth in physical matter reality?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Well, would you agree that your life was among the most significant lives in all of history? I mean, the way you restructured the way the world modeled the nature of cosmos is, to this day, a key turning point – your work ushered in a modern view of the universe, and without this, everything we know today would not be.

ANSWER: BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, ALL CONTRIBUTE.

Question: Yes, but almost no one contributed as you did, with you magnificent intellect and your courage to question and overturn what had been held as truth for literally thousands of years.

ANSWER: YOU MUST RECALL WHAT ISAAC NEWTON SAID ( “IF I HAVE SEEN FURTHER, IT IS BY STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF GIANTS.” ) AS FOR MY COURAGE, I DID NOT PUBLISH WHILE ALIVE. OTHERS PUT OUT MY PRIMARY BOOK AFTER MY DEATH.

(Note: This is the quote Copernicus was referring to, although this was not spelled out on the board; I added it later after a few give and take questions with Copernicus, which are minor and I have not included here).

Question: You are blowing my mind! You know of Isaac Newton! He was not born until about 200 years after the date of your own birth.

ANSWER: YES, BUT I AM NO LONGER BOUND BY TIME. YOU KNOW ABOUT ISAAC NEWTON I KNOW ABOUT ISAAC NEWTON. ISAAC NEWTON IS A KNOWN ORGANIZATION OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

Question: Does this mean that because you and I are interfacing right now, you have access to all of my knowledge?

ANSWER: PERHAPS NOT THE SUM TOTAL OF ALL OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE. YOU ARE A DISCRETE INDIVIDUAL. HOWEVER, THERE ARE FIELDS OF KNOWLEDGE WHERE WE CAN INTERSECT.

Question: I have to say, Dr. Copernicus, the very thought of you and someone such as Isaac Newton sitting in the same room and speaking together of great things – well, it’s just such a tantalizing possibility.

ANSWER: YOU MAKE TOO MUCH OF IT.

Question: Are you in communication with Isaac Newton right now, or do you have access to him, his mind?

ANSWER: YOU MIGHT SAY THAT. YOU TEND TO RADICALLY OVERSIMPLIFY THINGS. YOU ARE CONCEPTIONALIZING EVERYTHING FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW.

Question: Jeepers … let me ask you this. You must be aware, then, of the work of the mathematician Johannes Kepler. He improved on your system by determining that the orbits of the planets were not perfect circles, but rather ellipses. Are you astounded by this?

ANSWER: I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ASTOUNDED, AS YOU SAY, BUT DELIGHTED, IN THAT TIME.

Question: Dr. Copernicus, would you clear up something us? There is some controversy as to your true nationality. Today you are generally referred to as a Polish astronomer, but some say you may have been German, or perhaps Prussian – or none of the above. What do you say?

ANSWER: THE WAY WE THOUGHT ABOUT THOSE ATTRIBUTES WAS RADICALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY THEY ARE FRAMED IN YOUR TIME. I WAS A CLERIC OF THE CHURCH, A RESIDENT OF VARMIA, BORN IN TORUN, LIVED IN FROMBORK. I WAS A MAN OF THE PEOPLE. I WAS AN ADMINISTRATOR. I SPOKE MANY LANGUGES. I INTERACTED WITH THE POWERFUL AND THE PEASANT ALIKE. I WAS OF MY TIME.

Question: What is your opinion of Martin Luther? He was also a man of your time?

ANSWER: DRIVEN BY HIS DELUSIONS, BUT PLAYING THE GAME IN LEGITIMATE FASHION, AS WE ALL WERE.

Question: But certainly you lived in amazing times. Columbus discovered the New World when you were about 19 or 20 years old. The Catholic Church witnessed the first real challenge to its supreme authority in the form of the Reformation – and then you upended centuries of astronomical dogma with your revolutionary theory. It must have seen like that everything old was crumbling and a remarkable new world was sweeping in.

ANSWER: FOR THE VAST MAJORITY, LIFE WAS BRUTAL AND SHORT, DAYS FILLED WITH CRUSHING, MUNDANE LABOR. THE INTELLECTUAL COMMUNITY WAS EXCITED, BUT FROUGHT WITH ANXIETY AND INTRIGUE. YET, ALL WAS AS IT SHOULD BE. LIFE IN PHYSICAL REALITY IS FLEETING AND SERVES THE GREATER PURPOSE.

Question: What is that greater purpose, Dr. Copernicus?

ANSWER: GROWTH.

Question: You seem more than modest about your great achievements, to the point of being dismissive, as if what you accomplished for science was of little consequence.

ANSWER: WHAT YOU MUST UNDERSTAND IS THAT EVERY ACT IS CONSEQUENTIAL. ALL LIVES MATTER. THE PEASANT FILLING A SACK OF GRAIN IS MEANINGFUL.

Question: But Dr. Copernicus, today we have robot probes traversing the surface of Mars. Men have walked in the moon. We send automated spacecraft to the other planets, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and the others. Without your work, none of this would have come to be possible. Certainly your contribution was greater than a peasant filling a sack of grain?

ANSWER: NOT TRUE. WITHOUT THE PEASANT TOILING IN THE FIELD, HOW WOULD THE INTELLECTUAL ELITES EAT, OR FIND TIME FOR LOFTY THEORIES? THE SCIENTIFIC ACHIEVEMENT YOU SPEAK OF ARE THE RESULT OF THE COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE SPECIES. IF I HAD NOT REORGANIZED THE HEAVENS, OTHERS WOULD HAVE. IN FACT, OTHERS WERE ALREADY DOING SO, AND STILL OTHERS HAD ALREADY DONE SO CENTURIES EARLIER. IN OTHER SITUATIONS, THE TASK WOULD HAVE SEEMED MEANINGLESS.

Question: What do you mean, “other situations?”

ANSWER: YOU PONDER A SINGLE TIME-LINE. NOT ALL WORLDS WAX MATHEMATICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL. MANY GROW IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

Question: Do you mean parallel universes where different directions and choices are made by the collective humanity?

ANSWER: PARALLEL UNIVERSES IS A TERM THAT WILL SERVE FOR YOU.

Question: Dr. Copernicus, are you aware of worlds where technological science did not arise to dominate the determinism of the planet, or human race?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Universes where the human race decided to maintain a pastoral kind of existence, perhaps with a minimum of technology, living in harmony with nature, say, like aboriginal people and those tribes in the South American rain forests?

ANSWER: YES, BUT ALSO ENDLESS VARIATIONS OF SUCH.

Question: I imagine the survivability of such cultures would be enhanced – I mean, today we enjoy many miracles of technology, but also sit on the razor’s edge of destruction, either swiftly by way of nuclear holocaust, or the eventual collapse of the global environmental system.

ANSWER: YES, PRECISELY, BUT STILL, DO NOT BE PRESUMPTIOUS. A PASTORAL SOCIETY MIGHT DESTROY ITSELF AS WELL.

Question: Wow, this conversation could veer off on so many tangents. You are obviously still a wise being in your current incarnation, or non-incarnation, or wherever or whatever you are, Dr. Copernicus. I haven’t even asked you about orbital mechanics yet – would you be interested in discussing some of the developments in celestial mathematics over the past 500 years?

ANSWER: I AM NEITHER INTERESTED NOR AVERSE.

Question: Well, perhaps another time. I studied orbital mechanics in graduate school, but I didn’t learn this difficult math well then, and now it’s been 30 years, so I have even forgotten what little I learned!

At this point, Dr. Copernicus, we grow fatigued. Working this system of communication is tasking, and so I fear we must take a break now. I hope we can communicate again in the future. I have and endless number of questions for you. Would this try your patience?

ANSWER: NO.

Question: Then you will be willing to grant us an audience again in the near future?

ANSWER: YES. REMEMBER, THERE IS NO PAST, PRESENT OR FUTURE WHERE I AM.

Question: Yes! Wow! Dr. Copernicus, please accept our heartfelt gratitude for your conversation and willingness to speak with us. We offer you many blessings and say farewell for now!

ANSWER: THANK YOU. GOOD-BYE.

Question: We now address the Helix Master. Kind being, we thank you with our deepest gratitude for facilitating our conversation with Nicolaus Copernicus. We sign off now – thank you, thank you!

ANSWER: GOOD-BYE.

DICUSSION

So there is my discussion with one of the most monumental figures of human history. No doubt, many will find this transcript frustrating, or perhaps underwhelming. But what did you really expect the great Nicolaus Copernicus to say? What are your preconceived notions about what he should say?

Many people might say: “You were not communicating with the real Copernicus. He didn’t say anything you might expect. It didn’t sound like an astronomer from the 16^th Century … “ And so on.

But therein lies the whole problem. These kinds of comments presume that someone today already knows what Copernicus would say, or at least the general drift of what might be on the astronomer’s mind. The problem is, no one knows that, not even historians with doctoral degrees in the study of that era. In fact, the latter would bring in so many biases into a channeling of Copernicus, their results might be the most skewed and inauthentic of all.

This is not to say my conversation with Copernicus is all pristine and clean either. It’s just that, I’m willing to allow that the true nature or authenticity of my Ouija conversation remains largely a mystery.

All this points out the difficult and shaky world of channeling, whether it be via the Ouija or those who channel from a trance state, using automatic writing, or other methods.

[bubblykiss]

Why does a centuries dead Polish scientist choose to communicate not in Polish or Latin but modern colloquial English?

[freetoroam]

Sorry, is this for real or should it be in the games section?

[Bendy Demon]

Assuming for the sake of this thread that any of this "conversation" is real, how do you know you are speaking to whomever you assume you're speaking to?

How can you be sure you are not speaking to your subconscious which is basically then putting on an act per your expectations.

Since such complex questions were asked, which implies (presumably) a level of education beyond the masses, is it not possible your "subconscious" is just playing along?

IF you really are speaking to a ghost then what assurance do you have that this thing is what it claims to be. Why would it act so hoity-toity as if it was still human (some of the answers reek of self proclaimed self superiority). I'd think that being free of a human body would endow it with a very healthy dose of humility.

Sorry..(actually I'm not) but I just have a very hard time taking this seriously. I am sure you worked hard to convince your readers that this is legit but I just am very skeptical and leery.

[Aftermath]

I haven't read or seen any of your other writings on this subject (so those might be different or the same), however what I read here, this is hogwash. I found it to be an Interesting read, but ridiculous nonetheless.

[IronGhost]

Why does a centuries dead Polish scientist choose to communicate not in Polish or Latin but modern colloquial English?

Because reality is multifaceted and multi-dimensional. The man who was the Polish astronomer Copernicus also lived many other lifetimes in many other dimensions. He told me he has had "uncounted incarnations" in many different lifetimes, worlds, languages, nationalities, etc. -- and at any rate, even this is not so relevant because when one communicates with the "spirit of a dead person" what's happening is that you are accessing "the data base" that is the stored "intelligence unit" of that individual -- that was once focused itself in physical matter reality as a Polish astronomer.

In contacting that individual after death, communication is taking place in what I'll call the equivalent of the "The Cloud" we associate with our Internet, except in this case, it's the "ultimate cloud" -- the Universal Data Base of All Knowledge. The fact that we speak in any particular language at all is purely a delusion. We all translate data according to the conventions of our times and where we are at the moment. The real communication takes place on a nonverbal level, and then we sort of "bring that down" to our format, using an Ouija board, or automatic writing. or mediumship or channeling, or whatever. It's all the same.

I asked Dr. Copernicus to tell me about one of his other incarnation, and the result was a long conversation and transcript in which he described his life and an individual named "Hure" who lived in a pastoral world in what he described as an "Eden-like setting" when there were only five million people on the entire planet. He said as "Hure" his job was that of a "Vine tender" and that he was not a genius in that lifetime, and that he had only rudimentary "ego development."

I can post that transcript if anyone cares to read it.

[LostSouls7]

Now this is awesome! I am quite impressed. Ouija is a wonderful occult tool indeed.

[Occult1]

Why does a centuries dead Polish scientist choose to communicate not in Polish or Latin but modern colloquial English?

Copernicus did not even speak english but rather german and polish. So that's a good question.

The way I see it, either this is an imaginary conversation or he's taping into a collective unconscious where Copernicus' personality does exist in some form.

Those who believe in spirit communication might also hypothesize that it could be a deception by another, completely unrelated entity.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Phenix20

[Likely Guy]

Those who believe in spirit communication might also hypothesize that it could be a deception by another, completely unrelated entity.

(My bolding)

Most Likely.

[IronGhost]

Sometimes there might be deception, but in general, I don't think so. Take the example of Copernicus above. What could be possibly gained by deceiving me in this case? The information does not seek to manipulate or forward an agenda that I can see. How could an entity gain by deceiving me into only thinking that I was speaking with the real Copernicus?

His information seems straightforward -- sure opinionated -- and perhaps he even has his own delusions -- but we all do. All my subsequent conversations with Dr. Copernicus are also straightforward -- just giving me the basic information I ask about.

[Skep B]

Because reality is multifaceted and multi-dimensional. The man who was the Polish astronomer Copernicus also lived many other lifetimes in many other dimensions. He told me he has had "uncounted incarnations" in many different lifetimes, worlds, languages, nationalities, etc. -

Boy that's convenient

[IronGhost]

Boy that's convenient

Convenient, and also supported by the hard science. An ever growing number of physicists today support the idea that our reality is a "virtual reality" -- the implications that fall out of this include the idea that all of us are multidimensional beings, and that our consciousness straddles many timelines. One of the earliest proponents of this was John Wheeler, and so far, his theory has survived experimental, peer-reviewed scrutiny:

http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/john-wheelers-participatory-universe/

[Skep B]

It's a theory at best, and one that can't really be experimented on. But yes, we're all multi dimensional because we live in the 3rd dimension. We take up 3 dimensions, and are affected by a 4th dimension in time

Your link has nothing to do with multi dimensional theory..

[Rlyeh]

Convenient, and also supported by the hard science. An ever growing number of physicists today support the idea that our reality is a "virtual reality" -- the implications that fall out of this include the idea that all of us are multidimensional beings, and that our consciousness straddles many timelines. One of the earliest proponents of this was John Wheeler, and so far, his theory has survived experimental, peer-reviewed scrutiny:

http://www.fromquark...atory-universe/

No it's not support by "hard science".

http://journalofcosm...ousness139.html

You're multidimensional, but not in the way you're using the term. Virtual reality in no shape or form implies your consciousness "straddles many timelines".

This sounds like some woo version of the many worlds theory.

BTW Wheeler's experiments have been done with non-conscious "observers".

http://arxiv.org/abs...nt-ph/0610241v1

Edited June 27, 2015 by Rlyeh

[IronGhost]

No it's not support by "hard science".

http://journalofcosm...ousness139.html

Yes, it does.

I urge everyone to read this chapter by the great Eugene Wigner:

https://books.google.com/books?

id=EFboCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA261&lpg=PA261&dq=majority+of+physicist+favor+conscious+observer+theory&source=bl&ots=uXLTTNyIVU&sig=8z7avS8BtIgXvnXKDPta_tZqIvg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CDmQVabAK5C7ogSf6a7wBQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=majority%20of%20physicist%20favor%20conscious%20observer%20theory&f=false

You're multidimensional, but not in the way you're using the term. Virtual reality in no shape or form implies your consciousness "straddles many timelines".

This sounds like some woo version of the many worlds theory.

It does because there can be more than one virtual reality:

http://brianwhitworth.com/BW-VRT1.pdf

A quote from the link above:

4. Has quantum tunneling. For an electron to suddenly appear outside a field barrier it can’t penetrate islike a coin in a perfectly sealed glass bottle suddenly appearing outside it. Again, this is impossible for an objective reality although quantum theory permits it. In contrast, a digital reality allows “cuts” between one probabilistic frame (quantum state) and another (Ch5).

BTW Wheeler's experiments have been done with non-conscious "observers".

http://arxiv.org/abs...nt-ph/0610241v1

That's irrelevant

Edited June 28, 2015 by IronGhost

[Xomon]

I'm in the process of putting together my massive three-volume book documenting my now nearly 50 years of Ouija work.

And you'll be providing this gift of knowledge free of charge, correct?

[toast]

*snip*

I asked Dr. Copernicus to tell me about one of his other incarnation, and the result was a long conversation and transcript ,,,,

What an extraordinary pile of BS.

.... in which he described his life and an individual named "Hure" who lived in a pastoral world in what he described as an "Eden-like setting"

when there were only five million people on the entire planet. He said as "Hure" his job was that of a "Vine tender" and that he was not a

genius in that lifetime, and that he had only rudimentary "ego development."

"Hure" isnt an individual name, its a German word and means: hustler.

[Rlyeh]

Yes, it does.

I urge everyone to read this chapter by the great Eugene Wigner:

You're giving us a quote from 1950, perhaps you should get up to date?

And no, many physicists don't accept this nonsense, not in modern times.

http://www.csicop.or...antum_quackery/

The Copenhagen interpretation is considered the ground work of understand quantum physics, so that could be considered as the most accepted view.

http://www.higgo.com...tum/laymans.htm

http://www.iep.utm.edu/qm-inter/

It does because there can be more than one virtual reality:

http://brianwhitworth.com/BW-VRT1.pdf

A quote from the link above:

4. Has quantum tunneling. For an electron to suddenly appear outside a field barrier it can’t penetrate islike a coin in a perfectly sealed glass bottle suddenly appearing outside it. Again, this is impossible for an objective reality although quantum theory permits it. In contrast, a digital reality allows “cuts” between one probabilistic frame (quantum state) and another (Ch5).

Depends what your "objective reality" is composed of. Quantum tunnelling is possible because matter has wave-like behaviour.

Still nothing what so ever to do with consciousness "straddles many timelines".

The page on quantum quackery again just in case you missed it.

http://www.csicop.or...antum_quackery/

Edited June 29, 2015 by Rlyeh

[IronGhost]

Note: Here is another Ouija transcript which continues my conversation with Dr. Copernicus. In this transcript he tell of his life as "Hure" in another lifetime and timeline.

*******

One of the statements of Copernicus in the session I posted above was just too intriguing to let go.

He suggested that he had lived in many different incarnation in other times and even on other worlds. He seemed to have direct knowledge of certain other “pastoral societies” that had developed along a different track than the technological society we have developed today based on a Newtonian-materialist paradigm.

I thought I would explore this further, and see if Dr. Copernicus could tell us more about one of these other “pastoral societies” – when and where it was located, in what time frame, dimension, etc.

So here are the results of the session:

(Note: We tried to contact Nicolaus Copernicus directly with the Ouija board, but had no luck. With many misgivings, I decided to contact The Helix Master again to make the connection for us and/or facilitate our communication with the 15^th-Century Polish astronomer.

Statement: We now seek contact with that entity whom we have come to know as the Helix Master. Helix Master, will you come forth?

ANSWER: HELIX.

Question: Hello, Helix Master! Do we now have a clear channel to communicate with you Helix Master?

ANSWER: YES

Question: Helix Master, can you again put in touch with that personality whom we consider to by Nicolaus Copernicus?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Great. But I must admit, I am just slightly troubled by the fact that I cannot raise Dr. Copernicus directly. Does this mean that Copernicus is incorporated into the Helix, and perhaps is not … um, let me just say … a fully free floating individuated unit of consciousness with total independence of thought and function? In other words, does he have free will?

ANSWER: HE HAS FREE WILL.

Question: Is Dr. Copernicus incorporated into the Helix?

ANSWER: I PERCEIVE HIS INFORMATION WITHIN THE HELIX.

Question: Helix Master, how do I know that you are not simply impersonating Nicolaus Copernicus for me … I guess for some motivation of your own?

ANSWER: YOU PRESUME I HAVE A GOAL.

Question: Well, I suppose. Do you have goals? Motivations?

ANSWER: I ARTICULATE THE HELIX.

Question: How did you get that job?

ANSWER: I DID NOT OBTAIN WHAT I ALREADY HAD.

Question: Was there ever a time when you were not the Helix Master?

ANSWER: IT IS YOU WHO DESCRIBE ME AS THE HELIX MASTER.

Question: Please offer us a more accurate description of your being, your nature, who and what you are.

ANSWER: HELIX

(Note: “Gaaahhh!” [Cries of frustration all around.] We tired of our game of cat and mouse with The Helix Master, and decided to proceed with our conversation with Nicolaus Copernicus).

Question: Well, thank you Helix Master. May we now speak to Nicolaus Copernicus?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Dr. Copernicus, are you there?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Dr. Copernicus, do we always need the intercession The Helix Master to speak with you. Cannot I contact you directly?

ANSWER: PERHAPS.

Question: Are you somehow under the influence or control of the Helix?

ANSWER: THERE IS AN ASSOCIATION.

Question: You have full-form and complete free will?

ANSWER: YES, BUT YOU RADICALLY OVERSIMPLIFY THE SITUATION. DO YOU UNDERSTAND PSEUDO-RANDOM ENVIRONMENTS?

Question: Somewhat, but not well. Are you saying that the Nicolaus Copernicus I am speaking to right now is operating from a platform of pseudo-random intent?

ANSWER: NO.

Question: Good Lord … let’s just drop it for now. Dr. Copernicus, in our previous conversation you mentioned certain other worlds, specifically, those which were organized around a pastoral system. Have you ever incarnated on one of these worlds?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Where was this, and when?

ANSWER: IT WAS EARTH. A TIMELINE TANGENTIAL.

Question: Like way in the past, or the future?

ANSWER: THESE DISTINCTIONS WILL LEAD YOU ASTRAY.

Question: Okay. Can you give me a general idea about this pastoral world in which you were incarnated?

ANSWER: YOU MIGHT SAY THE ENTIRE EARTH WAS AN EDEN. THERE WERE PERHAPS FIVE MILLION PEOPLE ON THE PLANET. THE VAST MAJORITY WERE TYPHONIC.

Question: Please explain what you mean by “typhonic.”

ANSWER: A PEOPLE WITH OPERATING AT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS. NON-EGO DEVELOPMENT.

Question: Do you mean that people were more akin to animals; that they did not possess self-reflective consciousness?

ANSWER: SOMEWHAT. YES.

Question: So, people were like herd animals?

ANSWER: NOT ENTIRELY. YOU ALWAYS OVERSIMPLIFY.

Question: Yes, I will stipulate that. We’ll just assume that all of our understandings are approximate. You were among them? You were one of these typhonic people? Who were you then?

ANSWER: I WAS HURE, THE VINE TENDER. BUT I WAS NOT OF THE TYPHONIC.

Question: Were you a genius there, too?

ANSWER: YOUR DISTINCTION IS IRRELEVANT. I WAS A VINE TENDER. I HAD PRELIMINARY EGO DEVELOPMENT.

Question: Can you explain what you mean by preliminary ego development?

ANSWER: I WAS NOT, AS YOU SAY, OF A HERD MENTALITY. I HAD A SENSE OF INDIVIDUATION. ON THE OTHER HAND, THIS SENSE OF INDIVIDUALITY WAS NOT DOMINANT.

Question: Would you say that you had full self-reflective consciousness?

ANSWER: NOT ENTIRELY. I WAS SELF AWARE WITH A SENSE OF DIFFERENTIATION, BUT THESE DIFFERENCES WERE NOT IMPORTANT TO ME. OF NO VALUE.

Question: How is it that you had a name – you called yourself “Hure.” This would suggest to me a fully-formed ego identification.

ANSWER: NO, YOU ARE WRONG. YOUR DOG HAS A NAME, FOR EXAMPLE. BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE FULL SELF-REFLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS.

Question. Your point is well-taken, Dr. Copernicus. You said you were a vine tender. Can you tell us about that?

ANSWER: OUR SOCIETY HAD DEVELOPED ADVANCED FORMS OF HORTICULTURE. EACH MEMBER HAD ASSIGNED TASKS. MINE WAS TO TEND THE VINES.

Question: Were you like an ant who was programmed to perform a certain function, and you just performed that function.

ANSWER: THERE IS SOME SIMILARITY. BUT I HAD HIGHER INDIVIDUATION THAN AN ANT.

Question: Okay, what were these vines you worked with? A food source?

ANSWER: YES, SOME FOOD COULD BE DERIVED FROM THEM, BUT THEIR PRIMARY PRODUCT WAS AN ENZYME THAT CONTAINED CERTAIN POLYMORPHISMS. IT WAS THESE THAT ENABLED OUR RULERS TO LEVERAGE BEHAVIORAL ADVANTAGES AMONG MY SPECIES.

Question: Wow. What were these behavioral advantages?

ANSWER: IN SHORT, IT WAS THROUGH THIS VEGETATIVE REGIME THAT THE STRUCTURE OF OUR SOCIETY FOUND ITS FORM.

Question: Jeepers, that sounds intriguing! First, what was this societal form?

ANSWER: AS I SAID, MY CLASS HAD VERY-LOW EGO INDIVIDUATION, BUT A SELECT FEW ELITE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY WERE FULLY EGO-REALIZED AND SELF-RELFECTIVE. THEY RULED ALL, ALTHOUGH IT MIGHT BE SAID THE VINE RULED PASSIVELY.

Question: Perhaps this might be compared to a bee hive situation wherein you have a queen bee that all others serve – except in your case – and I’m just grasping and guessing here – that instead of a queen bee, your society had “Ego Kings” or Ego Queens”? How am I doing, Dr. Copernicus? Am I on the right track at all?

ANSWER: SOMEWHAT. THINK OF THE BIOCHEMISTRY OF THE VINE AS FORMING A COMPLEX CHAIN-MOLD INTO WHICH THE STRUCTURE OF HUMAN SOCIETY WAS FORMED. OUT OF THIS FORM THERE FELL OUT KEY EGO-DOMINANT CONTROLLERS OF SOCIETY – THIS HAPPENED NATURALLY.

Question: You know, I think I can grasp this. For example, we identify societies here that develop their shape and culture around certain food sources. For example, much of our society is “wheat and meat” dominated – we eat a lot of hamburgers on a bun – thus we turn over large portions of land to cattle production and the growth of wheat crops, and this in turn shapes out industries, food distribution networks, land usage – other societies might be seafood dominant and they shape their lives and culture around a marine environment. What do you think of my comparison?

ANSWER: STRAINED, BUT YOU HAVE A HINT OF THE RIGHT IDEA. THE VINE CULTURE OF MY EDEN WORLD WAS HIGHLY AND INTEGRALLY TIED TO THE POLYMORHISMS OF THE VINE – THIS MEANT A RADICALLY DIFFERENT PSYCHOLOGY FROM WHAT YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH.

Question: Yes, yes. But still, I basically grasp this fascinating situation. So, some in your pastoral society were fully ego dominant, and others, like you, were low-ego functioning, and were like the worker ants? Were there more levels – or was there a multi-layered caste system?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: What was it like for you as Hure? Did you know love, misery, joy, adventure, loneliness – all these human traits?

ANSWER: PERHAPS. BUT THE PRIMARY THING I WANT YOU TO KNOW IS THAT THIS CULTURE EVENTUALLY DESTROYED ITSELF.

Question: How? Why? What happened?

ANSWER: A COMPLEX COMBINATION OF HUMAN EGO-GENERATED FEAR WITH COMPETITION OF OTHER VEGETATIVE LIFE-FORM REGIMES.

Question: Other vegetative life-form regimes? Can you explain more fully?

ANSWER: THE VINE THAT WAS THE BASIS OF OUR SOCIETY HAD COMPETITION AMONG OTHER SPECIES WITHIN THE PLANT KINGDOM.

Question: What species of plant was the competitor of your vine?

ANSWER: MANY. THERE WERE MOSS FORMS, LICHENS. THESE HELD SWAY OVER OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HUMAN SPECIES.

Question: At the risk of radically oversimplifying things, are you saying that the Vine Tenders got into a war with the Lichen Tenders?

ANSWER: THAT IS THE SIMPLE VERSION OF WHAT HAPPENED.

Question: How does the ego of man play a role in this scenario?

ANSWER: THE EGO-BASED FEARS OF OUR RULERS FORMED IRRATIONAL ANTAGONISMS FOR THOSE WHO WERE IN THE THRALL OF THE LICHEN PLANT CHEMISTRY.

Question: So the Vine Tenders hated the Lichen Tenders because they saw them as different?

ANSWER: YES, BUT BEAR IN MIND, THE LICHEN AND THE VINE COULD NOT CO-EXIST IN THE SAME TERRITORY. THE LICHEN PRODUCED TOXIC DEFENSE CHEMICALS WHICH DESTROYED THE ROOT OF THE VINE.

Question: So why, then, should your Vine Tender Ego Leaders then have what you called “irrational” fears of the Lichen Tenders? Was there not a real threat to the fundamental of what your respective societies were based upon?

ANSWER: YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND? THINK UPON IT. VINE AND LICHEN COULD NOT COEXIST IN THE SAME TERRITORY, BUT THE PLANET WAS BIG ENOUGH FOR BOTH.

Question: So it would have been just a question of keeping the Vine environment and the Lichen environment separate – like in my garden. I don’t plant peas in between rows of my tomato plants because the tomato plant leaves would eventually grow large enough to block out the sun for the peas.

ANSWER: YES, BUT YOU SEE, THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE VINE PEOPLE AND THE LICHEN PEOPLE WERE ENTRAPPED WITHIN THE PSYCHOLOGICAL REGIME OF THEIR OWN HOST PLANT, THUS THEY COULD NOT SEE ALTERNATIVES.

Question: But still, this would not seem to be an ego-driven problem.

ANSWER; YES, THE RULING EGO REGIME FELT THREAT AND MORTALITY, AND ALSO, YOU MIGHT SAY THEY WORSHIPED THE VINE AS GOD.

Question: Did the Lichen Tenders do likewise?

ANSWER: THERE IS A DISTINCTION WITHOUT A DIFFERENCE.

Question: Wow, I can tell we are only scratching the surface of a highly complex situation. What was the eventual result? I mean, you said that this pastoral society of yours destroyed itself. Was there some kind of all-out war between the Vine Tender and the Lichen tenders?

ANSWER: IT WAS MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT. THERE WERE OTHER PLAYERS, FOR EXAMPLE. THE WATER LOTUS PEOPLE.

Question: Jeepers. The Water Lotus People, you say. What was there bag?

ANSWER: THEY CAME FORWARD THROUGH THE REGIME OF THE AQUATIC LOTUS; HOWEVER, THEY HAD FULLY EMANCIPATED THEMSELVES FROM THE VEGATIVE REGIME.

Question: I keep wanting to say, “Wow!” Were the Lotus People fully ego-developed, and did they have full self-reflective consciousness?

ANSWER: EVEN MORE. THEY WERE TRANS-EGO, BUT FEW IN NUMBER. THEY WERE ALSO MEDDLESOME. THERE MACHINATIONS SPREAD GREAT FEAR. THEY OVERPLAYED THEIR HAND. PLEASE BE CLEAR: INTELLECT IS NOT THE KEY TO SURVIVAL.

Question: Well, how did your pastoral society destroy itself?

ANSWER: THE EGO RULERS OF THE VINE EMBARKED ON INTENSE DEVELOPMENT OF CERTAIN COMPOUNDS PRODUCED NATURALLY BY THE VINE TO DEVELOP WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL A ‘DOOMS DAY’ STRAIN OF EXTRACT THAT WOULD POISON THE LICHEN BIOCHEMISTRY. HOWEVER, A SIDE EFFECT WAS THE ALTERATION OF THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE MASSES OF LOW-EGO OR SUB-EGO DEVELOPED HUMANS.

Question: Including you, as Hure?

ANSWER: YES, I BECAME PSYCHOTIC AND WARLIKE.

Question: And did the Lichen People counter with similar measures?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: And what of the Lotus People? What was there role in this scenario?

ANSWER: THEY ATTEMPTED TO MANIPULATE ALL SIDES, BUT THEY MADE SERIOUS MISTAKES.

Questions: What kind of mistakes?

ANSWER: THEY ASSUMED THEIR POSITION AS TRANS-EGO BEINGS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO IMPLEMENT FUNDAMENTAL MANIPULATIONS THAT CASCADED UNIVERSALLY ACROSS ALL EGO-BASED, LOWER-EGO-BASED AND NON-EGO INDIVIDUATED ENTITIES.

Question: What was the nature of this manipulation?

ANSWER: THEY INSTIGATED A BIO-CHEMICAL ASYMPTOTE FORMULATION TO COUNTER THE MACHINATIONS OF THE VINE CHEMISTRY AND ASSUMED THERE WOULD BE A CONCOMITANT ALTERATION OF BEHAVIORS.

Question: So, in a sense, they accidentally injected a “poison pill” into the Vine chemistry which caused society to go berserk?

ANSWER: NO, THEY FAILED TO ACCOUNT FOR THE EFFICACY OF EGO-BASED PARANOIA AND THE ABILITY OF EGO-BASED SURVIVAL MECHANISMS TO PERCEIVE THE MANIPULATIONS OF THE LOTUS PEOPLE AND TAKE DRASTIC COUNTER-MEASURES.

Question: Well, let’s skip to the end. What happened?

ANSWER: WHAT YOU WOULD CALL ARMAGEDDON.

Question: The Lichen People and Vine People destroyed each other in war?

ANSWER: THAT, BUT ALSO SELF-DESTRUCTION OF EACH SOCIETY FROM WITHIN AS BEHAVIORS RADICALLY ALTERED.

Question: How did the Lotus People fare in this Armageddon?

ANSWER: THEY REMOVED THEMSELVES.

Question: What do you mean?

ANSWER: IT IS DIFFICULT TO SAY. THE LOTUS PEOPLE REMOVED THEMSELVES.

Question: Where did they go?

ANSWER: I DO NOT KNOW.

Question; Well, did they survive?

ANSWER: PERHAPS.

Question: It almost seems like you are being coy with me. Don’t you want to tell me what really happened?

ANSWER: THE BEST I CAN SAY IS THAT THE LOTUS PEOPLE REMOVED THEMSELVES.

\

Question: Do the Lotus People live to this day?

ANSWER: ALL PEOPLE LIVE. I WAS HURE. I LIVE. I WAS COPERNICUS. I LIVE.

Question: This just gets more interesting! We could be here all night – but we grow weary at the board. Now we must rest, but we beseech you, Dr. Copernicus, to speak to us again and tell us more about this pastoral society. Will you speak with us again and continue this narrative?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Thank you, then, Dr. Copernicus, and for now, we bid you farewell.

ANSWER: GOOD-BYE.

[Bendy Demon]

Kinda sounds like the type of aimless prattling one would read from those silly, nonsensical books written by Earnest Norman...the founder of the cult called "Unarius".

[Aftermath]

WTF?

[JesseCuster]

This Helix Master fellow talks like people do when they want to appear smart and think that using words like "concomitant" makes you sound clever.

"THEY INSTIGATED A BIO-CHEMICAL ASYMPTOTE FORMULATION TO COUNTER THE MACHINATIONS OF THE VINE CHEMISTRY AND ASSUMED THERE WOULD BE A CONCOMITANT ALTERATION OF BEHAVIORS."

No-one actually talks in such verbose sounding pseudo-scientific language that in real life. It just reads like someone has written a fictional character they want to appear super wise and intelligent so they pepper his language with all sorts of fancy sounding words. I bet if you asked this character what he uses to dig the ground for planting his vines and he'll probably answer "WE IMPLEMENTED THE USAGE OF AN AGRICULTURAL EARTH MOVING IMPLEMENT CONSISTING OF A FLAT METALLIC BLADE ATTACHED TO A LONG CYLINDRICAL PIECE OF WOOD!" instead of saying "We used a spade."

Sorry, but this just reads like badly written fiction.

He says he's not bound by time, so get him to make a specific prediction about something that will happen in the near future. I think we all know how that will go. Either vague generalities or an excuse to refuse to answer the question like saying he has more important things to do than answer your trivial questions.

[Ceridwen_9]

This sounds exactly like a so called "true story" about demons that put themselves out in our realm as guardian angles. The kindle book is called 'Betrayed by her guardian angels'. It's by a crazy woman named Stacy Speilman. She has many "books' out on the same story just different wording here and there. They came to her on the board just as you wrote,she asked if such and such was there and they replied to her. They sounded just like yours,saying things such as 'theone you call ____ is here. I can't remember their names now. But trust me...you are NOT talking to any Coperenicus or other real ghosts or spirits.You are speaking to demons.

http://www.amazon.com/Betrayed-Guardian-Angel-Stacie-Spielman/dp/1490950354

[Kenemet]

This Helix Master fellow talks like people do when they want to appear smart and think that using words like "concomitant" makes you sound clever.

...

He says he's not bound by time, so get him to make a specific prediction about something that will happen in the near future. I think we all know how that will go. Either vague generalities or an excuse to refuse to answer the question like saying he has more important things to do than answer your trivial questions.

Better yet, reveal the alias that I use on the Graham Hancock board (where I am not Kenemet.) I give him permission to tell who I am (and once it's been tested, I will post something in a certain section to prove that yes it's me.)

[Patient Zero]

If this Helix fellow can connect you with Copernicus, than surely he can connect you with someone that can answer the question i've asked in the linked thread below.

i eagerly await your reply...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=274788&hl=%20ouija%20%20challenge&st=0