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Is Scientific Genius Extinct?

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#16    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostQuantumGuy, on 01 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Like sepulchrave, I find myself siding with Roush in the article. Periods of scientific revolution don't come about in a deterministic manner. I also find it insulting to the scientific community to say geniuses have gone "extinct". That's a rash generalization and is far from the truth. A scientific breakthrough will certainly garner one quite a bit of notoriety, but I would argue it is not the way to judge genius.

I would like to point out that the military does not control scientific funding. The number of times I see "we don't need weapons, we need a cure for cancer" is astounding and shows quite a bit of ignorance. Take a look at all the research being done at your local university. The advancements made at a single institution are amazing. Just as an example from some work done within my particular field (I will point out, this is not my work) is non-invasive transcranial focused ultrasound therapy (http://focused-ultra...rain_Review.pdf).

I feel the general population is losing their sense of awe at the advancements being made. There's another thread about the neuronal activity of a zebra fish as its prey comes into its field of view. How someone can watch that video and not be blown away is beyond me. That's not a trivial accomplishment.

Instead of claiming genius no longer exists, simply look around at what is being done and you'll see the genius in front of you. Before you now is a computer that is the work of many geniuses. Your monitor/display in itself is a work of genius.

No its not. Monitor is work of hard working man as any other.
I agree with you that is wrong to say that genius dont exist. Because maybe he exist as one of the childrens who is now in schools. Or even on this forum writing.
Also about half scientists work for military industry.

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#17    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 01 February 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

Ok, so who is genius? L.R.Hubbard?

Neither Newton was. In my opinion genius was Poincare. Perhaps Fermat.C.G.Jung...Higgs...

Its not what they grasp. Rather how they grasp. Thats what makes genius genius. If I think more I would find great examples.
But Poincare is perfect example of Genius.
He needs to be studied. His methods, imho.

Edited by the L, 02 February 2013 - 12:12 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#18    bmk1245

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostQuantumGuy, on 01 February 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Like sepulchrave, I find myself siding with Roush in the article. Periods of scientific revolution don't come about in a deterministic manner. I also find it insulting to the scientific community to say geniuses have gone "extinct". That's a rash generalization and is far from the truth. A scientific breakthrough will certainly garner one quite a bit of notoriety, but I would argue it is not the way to judge genius.

I would like to point out that the military does not control scientific funding. The number of times I see "we don't need weapons, we need a cure for cancer" is astounding and shows quite a bit of ignorance. Take a look at all the research being done at your local university. The advancements made at a single institution are amazing. Just as an example from some work done within my particular field (I will point out, this is not my work) is non-invasive transcranial focused ultrasound therapy (http://focused-ultra...rain_Review.pdf).

I feel the general population is losing their sense of awe at the advancements being made. There's another thread about the neuronal activity of a zebra fish as its prey comes into its field of view. How someone can watch that video and not be blown away is beyond me. That's not a trivial accomplishment.

Instead of claiming genius no longer exists, simply look around at what is being done and you'll see the genius in front of you. Before you now is a computer that is the work of many geniuses. Your monitor/display in itself is a work of genius.
Ok, you are promoting your work (mods will take care of that). And monitor/display in itself is a work science and engineering altogether. Seriously, make brown sound, we'll make poop together.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

#19    bmk1245

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:15 AM

View Postthe L, on 02 February 2013 - 12:08 AM, said:

Neither Newton was. In my opinion genius was Poincare. Perhaps Fermat.C.G.Jung...Higgs
... and why? Not that you obliged to answer, but just out of curiosity, why (excluding Higgs, and Jung, and... Poincare, and...)? You get my point.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

#20    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM

this  is  to  easy .  genius  is  not  what  is  done ,  it  is  in  the  isolation  of  sight ...   it  takes  no  great  spirit  to  be  a member  of  a team  in  foot ball ,  or   one  more  soldier  on a battle feild ...   try  working  on  a valve in a  hydrolic  liniar actuator for  a bipedal walking  robot for   2  years ,  then  reducing  the  part  count  to  14  parts .

the  day  of  success ,  you  have  30  year  of  work  on  a project  that  no  one  understands ,  the  success  is  in a  frindge area  of  the  arm  design  that   no one  on  earth  even  knows  about ,  and  it  would  take  years  to  just  discribe  your  failures  to  get  to  this  point ...   and  you have  no  one  to  show .

no  one  understands  what  you  did ,  or  that  it  even  happened .

it  takes  a very  special person  to be  a genius ,  not  because  of  what  your doing...   but  because  your  all alone  ,  and  you have  no  one  to  tell  when  you  succeed .


#21    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:57 AM

post  script .  i  have  some  very  smart  people who  say  i  am  quite  clever ...  and   a bipedal  walking  robot  is  a hobby...  because  no  one  on  earth  will  spend  a dime  on  real  resurch ,  because  the  academics  have  got  it  so  pipelined  and  formatted  driven ...  if  you  have  any  really good  ideas ,  your  never  going  to see  the  light  of  day ..

watch  the  movie  contact .

the  true  genius  is  the  one  who  is  cut  out  and  handed  their hat ...  its  the  game player ,  and  the  insiders  who  get  the  bucks  to  play  buck rogers ...

untill  that  changes  (  do  not  hold  your  breath ) ... you  will  not  see  anything  like  genius .

i  have solutions  for  every  problem  man  kind  has seen  in  the  last  150  years ...   and  not  one  will  ever  be  seen  because  loud  voices  win  out  over  smart  voices .

i  should  point  out ,  i  have  made  two  people  over  100 million  dollors  from  ideas  i  did  not  get  any  credit  for  or  any  money  from ...  because  the  real  work  was  done  by  them... but  the  ideas  were  mine ...  i  have  not  fewer  than  100  other  ideas...  any  one  of  which   could  make  some  one   more  than 100  million  dollors...

and  frankly  speaking...   i  do  not  care  one  bit ,  because  realestate  is  where   money  goes...  not  ideas  or  manufacturing .
you get  what  you  pay  for ,  you  personaly  are  responcible  for  what  you  get ,  when  you  want  the  world  to  change...   i  am  waiting ....   i  will  not  fight  the  war  alone ,  i  can   do  that  with  out  your  help .

frankly  speaking ,  all  i  want  is  to  have  enought  money  for  materials  and  space  to  work .  some  one  else  to  manage  the  business  end  and  a  warm  place  to  work .


#22    bmk1245

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:17 AM

View Postonereaderone, on 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

this  is  to  easy .  genius  is  not  what  is  done ,  it  is  in  the  isolation  of  sight ...  [...]
Makes no sense. Sorry, it doesn't.

View Postonereaderone, on 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

[...]  it  takes  no  great  spirit  to  be  a member  of  a team  in  foot ball ,  or   one  more  soldier  on a battle feild ...   try  working  on  a valve in a  hydrolic  liniar actuator for  a bipedal walking  robot for   2  years ,  then  reducing  the  part  count  to  14  parts .
[...]
Ok, reduced to 13, so?

View Postonereaderone, on 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

[...]the  day  of  success ,  you  have  30  year  of  work  on  a project  that  no  one  understands ,  the  success  is  in a  frindge area  of  the  arm  design  that   no one  on  earth  even  knows  about ,  and  it  would  take  years  to  just  discribe  your  failures  to  get  to  this  point ...   and  you have  no  one  to  show .
[...]
Is that M.Keshe tries to "send message"?

View Postonereaderone, on 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

[....] no  one  understands  what  you  did ,  or  that  it  even  happened .

it  takes  a very  special person  to be  a genius ,  not  because  of  what  your doing...   but  because  your  all alone  ,  and  you have  no  one  to  tell  when  you  succeed .
Someone will understand ,and they are called schrinks.

View Postonereaderone, on 02 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

[...]
it  takes  a very  special person  to be  a genius ,  not  because  of  what  your doing...   but because  your  all alone ,  and  you have  no  one  to  tell  when  you  succeed .
Ok, not to insult you again, but get a friend. Girlfriend/boyfriend, get one, cause your dark speach gets the creeps out of me.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
Zhoom! What was that? That was your life, Mate! Oh, that was quick. Do I get another? Sorry, Mate. That's your lot. Basil Fawlty (John Cleese).
If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

#23    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:08 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 02 February 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Makes no sense. Sorry, it doesn't.

Ok, reduced to 13, so?

Is that M.Keshe tries to "send message"?

Someone will understand ,and they are called schrinks.

Ok, not to insult you again, but get a friend. Girlfriend/boyfriend, get one, cause your dark speach gets the creeps out of me.


for  me  it  is  easy ,  for  you  ... it is not  likly  you will  understand  this ...

let  me  try  anyway .   i  have  ideas  that  are  totaly  original   quite  often ,  original  means...  no  one  has  ever  had  the  thought  before   in  all  of  the  history  of  the  human  race...  i  am  not  going  to  even attempt  to  tell  you how  this  can  happen  ...  and  the  concept  of  trust  is  a thing  which  is  nearly  an  original  thought  to  you ...  

trust  me,  you  are a dog  looking  at  a speaker , thinking  how  can  your  human  be  inside  that   speaker...  it  is  just  your  humans  voice ,  its  alright  ,  your  human  will  throw  a stick  with  you  later .

you  do  not  understand  what  invention  is ,  you  do  not  understand  that  what  works  for  you  in this  world  is  not  unique  ,  but  some  of  us  are  not  like  you  ,  and  we  are  unique ....   so ...

unlike  you , when i  have  thinking  things sinking  slowly  thru  my  thoughts...   shrinks  can  not  rethink  my  dreams  and  medicate me  into  stupidity  that  seems  to  you  like  being  normal ...   functionaly getting  a pet  should  do  the  trick  for  you .

for  me ,  i  seek  a  voice  in  the  darkness  that  has  just  enought  disagreement  to  make  for  intresting  conversations...
something  you  will  never  understand ...

being  normal  has  its  upsides ,  seeking imposable questions with extraordinarly hard  answers  is  not  one  of  them


#24    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:38 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 02 February 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:


Ok, not to insult you again, but get a friend. Girlfriend/boyfriend, get one, cause your dark speach gets the creeps out of me.

not  to  insult  you ,  but   so  that  you  might  understand ...
to  understand  the  linial  actuator  ,  it  is  a pressure  regulator  ,  a  spool  valve  ,  encoder  ,  decoder  ...  in  one  device ...

it  uses  a  nitinol  wire  10 inch's  long  inside  a  wire  spring  to  deamplifie  the  actuator total 10  inches of  motion  to   .100 inchs  of  motion   which  is  the   motion  of  the  wire ...   when   a pulse  width  modulated  signal  changes  the  memory  shape  wire ,  \  controlling  a  3  port  spool  valve  inside  the   actuator  ....so n that  the  signal  is  converted  to  a  valve  motion  with  out  ever  feeling  pressure ....  

the  device  funtions  with  out  a  regualtor  and  is  analog in  lenght  to  PWM signal...   response  time  is   1/10 second...  which  is  so  much  faster  than  the  hydrolics  as  to  make  it  not  an  issue ...

i  can  build  the working   device  with  manual  machine  equipment  in about  3  hours  ,  and  the  usb  port   will  run  the  wire  directly  with  a  5000  word  assembly  language  program ...

because  the  design  is  scaleable...   i  can  build  a  linilar  actuator  the  size  of  a 10  story  building  or  for  a nanobot  in   microns ..  with  equal  ease ...   the  device  is  patentable  and  is  also  very  easy  to  improve  ...   and  any  one  that  is  intrested...  it  has  automotive   applications   including   reactive  shock absorbers   that   flat line    a  bump  in  the  road...
it  is  also  not effected  by  vaccum  or  ultra  pressure....   (  space  or  deep  ocean) ...  


i  just  want  a warm place  to  work  and  some  one  else  to  run  the  business...


#25    Jinxdom

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:52 AM

No not extinct, just on strike. The minds that are able are hiding, science is less about science nowadays and more about politics which makes a lot of people just stop giving ideas to the world.


#26    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:55 AM

...oh...  and  did  i  mention ...   this  is  not  one  of  my  better  ideas ,  you  do  not  have a clue   you  moron ,  i  can  eat  you  for  dinner ,  and  drop  your  tiny  brain  in  the  dirt  like  a stone ,  step  on  you...  and  not  notice ...

on  a good  day ,  i  walk  the  icy  altitudes   and  cloud  canyons   of  dreams   in  cyan  skys  your   cave  dwelling   fire  only   reaches  for  ....  you  have  not  the  slightest  of  clues all  the  wonders  your  eyes   will  never  see...  when  you   awaken  some  day to  all  you  do  not  know ,  your  questions   will   not  be  your  starting  ,  seeking  to ask the  question will  be   far  more  than  what  you  might  raise  to .

oh  no..  for  neoprimitives  of  your  high  standing...   the  use  of  heat is   more  than  i  might  hope  to  see  you  seek out ,  your  greatness   may  even   lift  to  such  greatness  as  walls  and  a roof ....

put  a  red  frog  on  a green  rock...   and  the  frog  turns  green

put  a  red  human  on  a green  rock ... AND  THE  ROCK  TURNS RED .

this  defines   the  human being ...   genius  is  the  man  who  turns  the  rock  red .

genius  is  the  man  who  sees  the  world  as  it  can  be...  not  as  others   demand  it  is  and  can  be  no  other  way  than  as  it  shall  always  be....

i  will  not  be  held back   ,  i  will  not  except  things  as  they  are...  and  what  is ,  is  only  because  i  have  not  gotten  around  to  change  it  to  how  i  wish  it  shall  be...


#27    onereaderone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 06:15 AM

if  i spoke  to  far  foreward  of  my  place  ,  may  i  say  in  a softer  voice .

when  i  have  cause ,  i  delight  in  filling  the  minds  eye with  such   toys  my  dreams  play  with .
i   can  change  the  way  you  see  the  world  ,  and  teach the  untrained  eye  to  see  things  that  make  them
  tremble like  children .

a  strong  man  can  lift  about  300  pounds  ...  a  smart  man  can  move  the  world .


#28    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

View Postbmk1245, on 02 February 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

... and why? Not that you obliged to answer, but just out of curiosity, why (excluding Higgs, and Jung, and... Poincare, and...)? You get my point.

I was rushing there saying that Higgs is genius. I dont know how he figured out what he figured out. I only know that he was walking on mountain when idea strike him.
Jung on another hand follow intuition in curing his patients. He didnt know how things work and how he get there he just did.

Kant said that Newton wasnt Genius because he was able to explain logicly how he got to his conclusion.
Scientists often have conclusion then goes trough logical explaination. Genius dont obesrve to much they just clicked. They have rare insights.
They have explaination often dont knowing how they got there but seems that it works. They skip steps. Jung have conclusions which obviously help his patients.


Chaos theory and topology  father, Poincare is great example.Last universalists.He talked that sub consciousness solve all problems. Attack problems from all directions with consciousness.
And then wait when subconsciousness tap your shoulder. He steped out of Bus and problem he thinks for months flashes in front of his eyes.

Peers have dificulties to follow his work. One equasion followed by another and peers need many lines between them.
And he was Genius. Nasa use poincare to find best orbit. Nasa fist translate his works on English in 1950 when they started satelite programs.
He wondered that we can find out from 2D what is 3D object so he wonder can we know from 3d what 4d object look like.


This is his quote I like:


“The scientist does not study mathematics because it is useful, he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful.
If nature were not beautiful, it would not be worth knowing and life would not be worth living. And it is because simplicity, because grandeur, is beautiful that we preferably seek simple facts, sublime facts, and that we delight now to follow the majestic course of the stars.”

Edited by the L, 02 February 2013 - 08:52 AM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#29    bmk1245

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

View Postthe L, on 02 February 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

[...]
“The scientist does not study mathematics because it is useful, he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful.
If nature were not beautiful, it would not be worth knowing and life would not be worth living. And it is because simplicity, because grandeur, is beautiful that we preferably seek simple facts, sublime facts, and that we delight now to follow the majestic course of the stars.”
A bit over exaggerated, but there is some logic in it.

Edited by bmk1245, 02 February 2013 - 02:30 PM.

Arguing with fool is like playing chess with pigeon: he will scatter pieces, peck King's crown, crap on bishop, and fly away bragging how he won the game... (heard once, author unknown).
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If yesterday you would have stood up proud. Then why tonight have you thrown in with the stoning crowd? (Cradle of Filth)

#30    Big Bad Voodoo

Big Bad Voodoo

    High priest of Darwinism

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:43 PM

View Postbmk1245, on 02 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

A bit over exaggerated, but there is some logic in it.

I dont see it as exaggerated.
Also Fermat was genius too.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."





Also tagged with galileo, charles darwin, science, genius

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