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Why are you not really free?


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#1    Jeremiah65

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:38 PM

Well here we go

Why are you not free?  Is it because you are willing to give away freedom to have security?  Is it because someone tells you that you must behave a certain way?  Is it because of government regulations?….Regulations that…apparently at times…are written just for something to do to justify a political position?

I am tired of not being free.  I am not going to hurt anyone but I want to be free.  I want to know that if I choose to do so…I can drink a pint and relish endless streams of porn.  If I choose, I can smoke something and play X-box till midnight.  If I choose, I can import rare woods and hand carve trinkets and utilitarian items.

It’s called freedom.  I do not understand what some folks consider as freedom.  They have became so programmed they think the socially acdeptable rhetoric = freedom…and that is NOT true.

All I want is freedom…I promise I won’t hurt anyone.  Just let me…be me.  Stop setting the “socially acceptable” bar….I do not care what my neighbor thinks.

I can see an absolute tirade about what is socially acceptable...blah-blah-blah.  I am not an enemy of the state...or an enemy of society.  I want nothing more than what our founding documents says I should have...but we have violations of those all the time...and people just ignore it....why are you not free?  Maybe...look in the nirror....that is why we are not free....because of you.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#2    notoverrated

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

we can never be free, it was just a dream reality is setting in.

If your not after beauty, then why are you even drawing breath?

#3    RavenHawk

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:30 PM

Why are we not really free?  Because we don't know any better.  Socialism has crept into our society so slowly over the last century or so that we can't comprehend how our Founding Fathers lived.

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#4    ouija ouija

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:34 PM

I looked at your profile to see if you had put your age there. I was astonished to see that you are 47. 47 and you still don't know why using up rare wood/trees and supporting the porn industry are not good ideas?

What are your thoughts on encroaching upon other peoples' freedom if it gets in the way of your freedom?

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#5    Kazoo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

We aren't free. We engage in a social contract with our government that strips away some freedom for security purposes. And we all like it this way. I don't kill people.  My neighbors should not kill people. The military and police protect us.  Schools let us all live in an educated world. We pay taxes for all these luxuries. They punish those who wrong. This is the foundation of almost all government.

People like you forget how much the government gives you. Those are luxuries. Not requirements.

The problem is when the government does things that limit our freedom and say its for security. And its really just unhealthy paranoia.

Another problem lies when officials treat governments as businesses and see the citizens as customers.

We don't want freedom. You don't want real freedom. You want to sit around at night and smoke pot and play video games. You can. No one is stopping you.  I mean be prepared to deal with the legal repercussions if your smoking illegally. But you can.  

This is more of a rant of social conventions then about the government.

Edited by Kazoo, 02 November 2012 - 07:46 PM.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." - H.L. Mencken

#6    tapirmusic

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

View PostKazoo, on 02 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

We engage in a social contract with our government that strips away some freedom for security purposes.

Hmm...  I never signed a contract...

Edited by tapirmusic, 02 November 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#7    Kazoo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

View Posttapirmusic, on 02 November 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Hmm...  I never signed a contract...

Thats because you are already protected when you are born. As the price of protecting you from the evils of the world and a hospital to come into existence safely on you are forced into the contract.

I'm so sorry.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." - H.L. Mencken

#8    Corp

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:31 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 November 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

Why are we not really free?  Because we don't know any better.  Socialism has crept into our society so slowly over the last century or so that we can't comprehend how our Founding Fathers lived.

Well how the Founding Fathers lived was with slaves and genocide. So your form of socialism, which doesn't match how the rest of the world views it, isn't that bad.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#9    RavenHawk

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostCorp, on 02 November 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

Well how the Founding Fathers lived was with slaves and genocide. So your form of socialism, which doesn't match how the rest of the world views it, isn't that bad.
A gilded cage is still a cage no matter how benevolent.

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#10    Corp

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:50 PM

All forms of government are cages. It's the nature of the beast. Socialism is no different from any other political theory in that regard. Well except for anarchy of course. And I'll take a glided cage over Somalia any day.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#11    RavenHawk

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 09:16 PM

View PostCorp, on 02 November 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

All forms of government are cages. It's the nature of the beast. Socialism is no different from any other political theory in that regard. Well except for anarchy of course. And I'll take a glided cage over Somalia any day.
I'll take the Constitution any day.  The point of the Constitution is to blow the door off of the cage.

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#12    Kazoo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

I'll take the Constitution any day.  The point of the Constitution is to blow the door off of the cage.

We need to blow the door off the cage!

Now what rules and regulations can we use to accomplish this task........

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all." - H.L. Mencken

#13    ninjadude

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 02:42 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

The point of the Constitution is to blow the door off of the cage.

No, the point of the Constitution is the provide the framework for government.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
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#14    acidhead

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:03 AM

Freedom to me can be broken into three principles:

1. freedom to vote
2. freedom to speak, write or express ones self
3. freedom to engage in a free market (as long as it doesn't interfere in the physical or personal property of another individual)

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#15    Corp

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:04 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 02 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

I'll take the Constitution any day.  The point of the Constitution is to blow the door off of the cage.

Hahahaha...no. It replaced a British monarchy with an American republic. One system of government for another one. A glided cage for a glided cage as you say.

And as we've discussed in other threads the Constitution had no comment at all about socialism...because socialism as a political viewpoint was brand new and wasn't in practice. If you had asked the Founding Fathers their thoughts on socialism they would have just given you odd looks.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.




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