Should God help us ?

[Faeden]

Hi all

Are things like the middle east Gods problem ? I dont see why god should sort it out, man wrote the "religious" books that started the wars in the first place, not god, he/she would have nothing to do with things like that. in the bible it even says that "witches should not be suffered to live" in other words its OK to kill witches, is it no surprise that man is in so much trouble, they live there lives through books written by god fearing men. Anyone that knows even a little bit about the nature of god will know they are not Gods words, god fearing men wrote them,. Man as a whole will have to take responsibility for its actions before we can be helped. God gave us free will, so we have to deal with our own mess, god never put guns in our hands, god never made the atom bomb. That is the problem with human kind (especially "religious" people) they blame everyone else for there own wrong doings (in most cases they blame a Devil, to take away there responsibility) and use a scapegoat.

If god was to go around sorting out the livings problems, what would we learn? That is like someone going to school, and the teacher doing all the work, and taking all the students exams, what would be the point ? I’m sure the teacher would love to help the student more, just as I am sure god wants to help those in the middle east, but god has to be cruel to be kind in a way, people have to learn from there own mistakes. People in the middle east are about as far from god as its possible to be, one person harms another, and then the other harms them, then the others do the same, you dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure out where they are going wrong. Because they do this, they get caught up in a vicious circle, negativity just breeds more negativity. Like attracts like. They are like children in a playground, one person bullies the other, and then the next person bullies someone else, people that lives there lives with violence and war, are very spiritually un-advanced, anyone that knew a little bit about god, will know that violence and war is not the way of god, or how god wants us to live. Look at all the wars around the world, look how they where started, and look how they continue, you always see the same pattern of ignorance. The moment you pick up a gun and attack another life, is the moment you lost god. Why should god help those that do evil in his/her name?

God has left signs and hints all over the earth about right and wrong, but humans are too caught up in there own ego, and own self petty to see the signs, the answer is simpler than most people think, but humans being complicated creatures complicate god with man written books, and negative emotions.

Man is obsessed with playing god, and trying to control others, which just causes confrontation, which is what causes violence and war, man kind needs to learn (toleration) before it can find peace, but at the moment, man is still obsessed with controlling others, that are different to them selves, rather than accepting that EVERYONE is different, and that that is never going to change, and that its mans attitude that needs to change.

God in my opinion will help those who are unable to help them selves, or those that help them selves, as god is within us all. God is like a cheerleader in the sky, he/she will cheer us on, or at the most give us a kick up the ass, and put us in the right direction, but we are the ones playing the game, who wins the game all depends on if the players realise that there are no sides and that there is just an illusion of good and evil. Man the ones playing the game are capable of both good and evil, and that there can only be 2 results of the outcome of the game, and that they are ,everyone can win, or everyone can lose, THERE ARE NO SIDES. instead of everyone fighting against each other where no one will win, it is better to work together and realise that we are all the same, and that good and evil is not going on between god and some devil faraway in the universe, and that human kinds future depends on the result of that fight. People need to understand that its going on in the hearts of man, and that its up to man to determine who is the winner in that game.

We all have free will, we have to make changes our self, not rely on god, because as I said its not god and a devil that is fighting a battle, its a battle going on within the hearts of men. The out come will be determined on whether people will realise this.

CHEROKEE WISDOM

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me"; he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves."

"One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego."

"The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith."

"This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

You can find another post here that you might find interesting Light vrs Darkness

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 8, 2005 by Faeden

[Seraphina]

Anyone that knows even a little bit about the nature of god will know they are not Gods words

Question then becomes: what are god's words? As the bible claims to be the only source of them I really do wish religion would stop making itself up as it goes along...for every different person, there's a different version...

But anyway, the answer is yes (in theory). If we assume god is the creator (parent) of mankind, then it is god's responsibility to tend to, guide, and correct his creations/children. A parent shouldn't, after all, be allowed to let their child run around the block beating up other children, should they?

[Faeden]

Hi Seraphina

Question then becomes: what are god's words?

See that is what I am trying to get at, people complicate things as you have done, what is wrong with common sense? why do people need books to tell them what is on gods mind? if people looked within there hearts they would find god is a lot closer to each person than we are led to believe. gods words will always be personal to each individual person, as we are all different. In many pictures of Jesus he has a love heart on his chests, I think that is saying what I am trying to get at.

All the best

Faeden

[Seraphina]

So you're saying....the best way for people to settle down what they believe god wants, is just to make it up according to whatever they personally prefer?

[Faeden]

No Seraphina, I am saying that god wants us to tolerate others, because each persons relationship with god is a personal one, people should stop judging others and playing god just because they think that there way is the only way. I am saying that man will never be at peace until man realises that killing and harming others no matter what the reason is not the way to god. Who cares what one person says is the word of god? The words of god are within each human being, not a man made book used to control others. Faith should be personal to the individual, as we are all different.

One mans truth, is not the next mans truth, so its fruitless trying to preach someone’s beliefs to another, because god will talk to us as individuals, which we all are, but we all have the same hopes and fears and are connected through God, so harming others is just harming our selves.

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 8, 2005 by Faeden

[Seraphina]

I see...

question 2: Why should anyone be expected to devote their lives to god if in fact he doesn't help us?

[ThePortal]

very good text Faeden, and i agree.

We can at least find a good point in common for everyone, everyone with no exception wich to love and be loved. We always find it as a base in every religion and spiritual path.

Too bad that some wish to have everything their way, it tends to get things complicated.....if we look at it our worlds is a big ***** relationship

Seraphina, as for God not helping us. some woud disagree. As Faeden said, our relationship with God is personnal, so is the help he gives to us. I am not religion, nor do I believe in any deity in particular, in fact I am not sure there is a God. But there were time in my life where I saw no hope, where everything was crumbling down. I ask help to whatever could be listening and I received. Now you can call it luck, but I know for myself that it was not.

Edited March 8, 2005 by ThePortal

[Faeden]

question 2: Why should anyone be expected to devote their lives to god if in fact he doesn't help us?

Repeatedly bangs my head against the wall...... Sorry you dont seem to understand what I am trying to get at. We have to help our selves, and why devote your whole life to god, you cant live the life god gave you if you do that? I have faith in god, but I cant expect god to do everything for me.

And as I said, God does help us, its just we fail to realise when we have been helped, because we are so self obsessed and greedy. God gives us hints all the time about the right way forward, but because man is so selfish agressive and egotistical, they miss all the hints and signs, that is not god's fault is it?.

All the best

Faeden

Edited March 8, 2005 by Faeden

[Seraphina]

So you believe that god built the car, but we're the ones that drive it?

[Faeden]

No!!! I believe god is the car and we drive it, some better than others

[Seraphina]

Why doesn't god come with a manual then? I'd hate for someone to be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car with only "hints" as to how it's driven

[LoVer_Of_GoD]

there kinda is a manual, the bible is the manual.

[ThePortal]

the bible is A manuel, not the only one.

I personnaly think that deep inside we all know. We all have the knowledge needed, we just have to listen. Our heart, common sense and set our little ego aside

Edited March 8, 2005 by ThePortal

[LoVer_Of_GoD]

we have to listen hard because God will speak but only using a quiet voice. in order to hear him we have to listen hard and ignore the world

[Faeden]

If god came with a manual then we would not learn anything in the way we should, its learning how to drive that gives us our licence, A manual will not give us the experience we need to earn our licence, we need to get in the car and drive it our self to learn, that is why we come to earth, to learn, we have a whole eternity to get it right. Those that get it wrong, will have to keep coming back until they figure out how to drive and fly straight. People fighting and killing are failing there lessons big time. The lesson is unconditional love, not an easy thing for any living soul on a testing planet, but then that is the nature of learning, being tested.

All the best

Faeden

[Faeden]

in order to hear him we have to listen hard and ignore the world

There is human kinds problem right there.

[ThePortal]

in order to hear him we have to listen hard and ignore the world

There is human kinds problem right there.

516488[/snapback]

indeed

one of them anyways

if we really had to ignore the world, we would not be living in a world full of people, we would be alone in oblivion. This is not the case, so the world is there for us to learn more, if we close our eyes, we can miss great lessons.

we all learn from each other

Edited March 8, 2005 by ThePortal

[LoVer_Of_GoD]

yep, that is the problem, everyone is of the world... thats all.

[Seraphina]

its learning how to drive that gives us our licence

And nobody is allowed to get that licence without being properly trained by a qualified instructor, and passing written exams...so where's the training we should be receiving here?

[LoVer_Of_GoD]

reading the bible and reading it, that is the training.

[Seraphina]

But, as we're currently dealing with Faeden's point of veiw, we are assuming that the bible is the work of man, not of god.

[ThePortal]

its learning how to drive that gives us our licence

And nobody is allowed to get that licence without being properly trained by a qualified instructor, and passing written exams...so where's the training we should be receiving here?

516510[/snapback]

as I said before, i think that deep inside we all have that teacher. We only have to listen. We look at ourself, life, other poeple and the world. The more we do the more we will understand. Everything that lives and exist is part of a manual, is a bringer of a lesson. Learning life is not like a driver license, its not like learning how to kiss, it is a long and tedious path. A life journey or many lifes it can take to truly learn how to live fully and unconditionaly.

p.s. as for the driving license, I did not need an instructor. As a matter of fact, we can choose to have one or not. If we dont have one we only have our learners driver license for a few months longer. After passing the written test of course

Edited March 8, 2005 by ThePortal

[Scorpius]

God does help us, but I believe he does it through angels, aren't they his messengers?

For the extreme catholics, muslims, christians, Jehovah's witnesses, etc. where do they go from there? They've lived all their lives in their religion, I don't think it'll be easy for them to let go.

They would need a different teacher, one who can show your ideals to them. It'd be great if your post was sent to everyone in the whole world, in the different languagesm but it just isn't so. Actions speak louder than words, so why not run a convention preaching your ideals.

I'm not much a motivational-speaker, unless you've got pamphlets that we can hand around...

[Seraphina]

I agree, learning to live is nothing like learning to drive....that's a metaphor However, it is still something that requires a great deal of responsibility and care, especially when the safety of other people are concerned...

So, I ask again (for the duration of this conversation, I shall assume, for the sake of arguement, that god exists) does he not have a responsibility to make sure people know what they're doing, before they're allowed to get behind the proverbial wheel?

[ThePortal]

So, I ask again (for the duration of this conversation, I shall assume, for the sake of arguement, that god exists) does he not have a responsibility to make sure people know what they're doing, before they're allowed to get behind the proverbial wheel?

516533[/snapback]

I think the ability of having moral values, of knowing right from wrong. Of feeling guilty when going against our morals COULD stand as a tool God gave us to know what to do behind the wheel.

in short our intellect is the tool

Edited March 8, 2005 by ThePortal