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911 inside job - for what?


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#976    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

This has nothing to do with why the FBI never indicted him.
I'm not assuming anything, all I am doing is pointing to the fact the FBI never indicted him and if they had evidence of his guilt, then there would have been one.

I am afraid it has much to do with it. The paper trail just vanished. So did having to prove an action to bring a killer to justice who has used every resource at his disposal to evade such so he ay continue brainwashing people and sending them to their deaths. You know why he was not indicted, the FBI have no hard evidence. That is not to say they have no evidence, they simply have evidence that might result in decades of court battles giving people in the Jihad an opportunity to eventually free him, and do something even worse. One thing, OBL had no conscience, no humanity, he was going to kill again, and again. Until he was stopped, that is the sort if person he was. This shortcut curtailed slaughter and brought one man to justice.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

And what lessons did you learn from Al Capone which means that OBL was not indicted by the FBI??

Same ones that were mentioned in Q24's clip regarding mafia. That heads of these organisation who fund and control them distance themselves from any direct action, so they can continue to wage wars on any legal system that may disagree with their personal views. OBL took full advantage of this system, so the FBI had to acto on an older order to remove him from existence for public safety. It's not a new system, Mafia, Triads, even KGB have used these methods for centuries. This goes all the way back to Thomas Becket who exposed this system and paid for it with his life, but made the world a better place as a result.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

He never fought for my backside?? :blink: I am not American.

Where are you from? You do not post it, why may I ask? Or do you not post your origin because it might expose an Agenda?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

And I don't see anything wrong with offering anyone a little respect, but you can not expect to get respect when you are being dishonest.

I am not seeing dishonesty, I am seeing a man answer to the best of his ability, and you should be happy with that, it is all one can do. It's like your poking and prodding Sky with a stick. He gave you his answer, asking for what you want to hear time and again is not going to produce it is it?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

Of course I could, but wouldn't it be much easier if Skyeagle just admitted it??

Ad it would be much easier if you just spoke your mind instead of doing a dance yourself. You asked repeatedly, he answered repeatedly. If the point is not getting across, I suggest you bridge that gap so we can move on and stop the song and dance.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

Then we could move on, but he thinks by ignoring a point, it never existed and he can carry on fooling himself and the gullible. Skyeagle never admits he is wrong or incorrect.

He is not ignoring a point, Because he is an experienced man who has seen the world trough wars, he can smell a rat too, and probably had a better nose than you and I put together in these matters. This is what he does - defend the country, he works for the pople you are accusing, and if antyhing, Sky is not biased. He will expose his superiors at the drop if a hat if they do not follow procedure that benefits everyone, in fact, ,he is hanging out with the Red Tails right now. Do you know who they are, and what they were up against? If you do now know who the Red Tails are, may I please request that you have a look into that chapter of history, then when you understand Sky as part of such history you will see his is nobody's puppet. You are just asking too much in the wrong way is all. Like Douglas Adams said, the answer is no good if you do not know how to ask the question.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

It has nothing to do with fighting the system for the wrong reason, its about the law and due process.  I know things like "Innocent until proven guilty!" is an outdated concept to some people but I on the other hand thinks it's a fairer system than "Guilty until proven innocent!"

Guilty of what? 911? Do you really and honestly believe from one second that the most prominent man in a terrorist organisation that carried out 911 is completely innocent of the entire event? It was a war on terror, not a war on OBL, OBL was just a major target, as all superior people are.

What about the bombings, the Fatwa against America? That makes him guilty until proven innocent, The man declared war on America, and his merry band of followers carried out his wishes in return for a mythical afterlife. Declaring war on a country would be considered quite a bad thing, wouldn't you say?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

If the evidence against OBL is overwhelming, then the FBI would have just indicted him like they did against him for his other crimes. Lets put it this way, if you have a suspect and there is no evidence of their guilt, does critical thinking mean you continue with the line of enquiry that they are still guilty even though there is no hard evidence of their guilt or do you pursue other suspects??

He was guilty of the 1998 bombing, he was guilty of funding the organisation that carried out 911. The man is a murderer, and wants American people dead. All he did was cover his tracks well, and for that I think he deserves no pardon, and yes, in this case I do not have a problem with considering this person guilty before being proven so. His rejoicing in 911 was enough for that. Like I say, the FBI have no hard evidence. that does not mean no evidence, it just means it will take a long, long time to sift through the legal system.
You know your second line makes it clearer if anything. Do you pursue a line when there is no hard evidence? Nope, you just act. That is what the US did before more people could be slaughtered under this madman's belief system and frankly, I thank goodness that they did. That is why people vote. So the public can decide if they have some wishy washy hippy who cannot make a decision, or someone who will just call a spade a spade and act when they have to act. The world is a better placer today because the US did act, instead of pushing this back and forth for decades to come.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#977    skyeagle409

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

The taliban offered to hand him over to a third independent state and asked for evidence of his guilt and the US wasn't listening or interested in bringing him to trial.

Since you were unaware of the rest of the story, here it is.

The United States launched the airstrikes Oct. 7 after weeks of pressing the Taliban to give up bin Laden unconditionally.

Edited by skyeagle409, 19 February 2013 - 01:25 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#978    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:43 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Oh there is no way he was going to survive be tried.

Of course not. Most of the world are disgusted in his actions and his beliefs. People less deserving of execution have perished on route to trial.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I think OBL was considered a great warrior and fighter against the Russians in Afghanistan, so I do not think he needed to dress like a goat herder.

By the people he wandered amongst  in this videos and so forth? Almost every single one of them also admit they cannot read, they rely on tales from the great warrior, whom no doubt appears more powerful to wide eyed listeners when his is a ordinary man who appears like ordinary people. How else do you garner support from the ignorant? These people will killed themselves for mythical virgins in the afterlife!! They will believe anything from a fellow Muslim leader !!!! I think they just want some part of life to be better than what they must endure daily.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

The taliban offered to hand him over to a third independent state and asked for evidence of his guilt and the US wasn't listening or interested in bringing him to trial.

Because he knew they had no hard evidence. The Taliban recruited smart men for 911, and planned it for at least 2 years. Why the heck do you think they made such a boast when the US could quite legally appropriate Usama via the 1998 bombing? The US could still have come in and taken them, they tried to make this a ploy to Muslims worldwide that an innocent man was being tried, but it only worked in small volumes, which eventuated to become the CT's we know today. I think the US just cut them of before they could try to get even more support for these killing machines.
They knew no hard evidence existed, and I would wager were trying to use that. Didn't help them in the end though Usama's reputation had already done enough damage to eradicate him.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I'm not after anyone, just trying to uncover the truth...or should that be twoof!! lol

If you are trying to uncover the twoof, then you need to go to the source of the information correct? Therefore you are indeed "after" the press if your claim is genuine. Everyone in these threads keeps pointing a finger at Fox, I suggest no paper is exempt, as they are almost all just copied and pasted anyway. This is where the Chinese whispers begin. And it is not going to get better along the way.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I do not doubt that.

Then what is indeed the problem? That he was killed for a murder that he merely instigated instead of the one they do have hard evidence of?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

He was indicated without a trial or evidence and more importantly, if no paper trail exist , then it could be due to the fact there is no evidence connecting him to 9/11.

Lets face reality for one second, who in their right mind thinks OBL is completely innocent with regards to 911?

Do you honestly believe that for one second? There may be no paper trail because it was easier, Heck, he is operating out of sand dunes you know.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Well thanks for your opinions but I do not share the same sentiment.

I did not ask you to share anything, I suggested you speak to a real scientist, and ask them if what I have said is true, heck ask a dozen.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

I will agree that some CT exist due to sloppy journalism but it doesn't account for every CT out there, because sloppy journliasm doesn't make molten steel appear in the rubble at GZ for instance.

No, heat and construction methods do. Yes, that is a direct result of sloppy journalism, how is it not? Please show me an article that definitively states that the collapse was impossible in a 911 situation, with proof, because if such existed, you and I would not be having this discussion would we? Not opinions, not possible outright proof that the US Government canot refute. I have quite reasonable engineering experience, and the tower collapse is genuine I an afraid, and that is not opinion.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

To dismiss all 9/11 CT as rubbish/sloppy journalism/making light of Bin Laden is a misunderstading of the conspiracy itself.

Ohh, I know there is more to it than simple lazy and stupid journalism, but that is I feel likely to be by far the most major contributor.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Oh good, the FBI website.

Considering you are asking everyone in the forum what their actual information is, your reply is most puzzling. Would you suggest that people do not consult the FBI when you are asking questions about the FBI? That's rather a slanted view is it not? Do you understand directing the witness, because of you refuse the FBI website when asking questions about the FBI, that is what you are doing. And the FBI website itself says no Hard Evidence connects Usama to 911. But it does have an indictment for Usama doesn't it?

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Now maybe you can find out why OBL was not indicted for his 9/11 crimes??

How many time do you need me to say they had no hard evidence? Are the above replies insufficient in some way? I fact, it feels rather that we have come full circle, shall I start with Al Capone again?

Edited by psyche101, 19 February 2013 - 01:47 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#979    Stundie

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

I am afraid it has much to do with it. The paper trail just vanished.
There was no paper trail, so it didn't not vanish. It never existed. They turned over 2 countries which were suppose to have all kinds of links to Al-Qaeda and they didn't find a single thing implicating him.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

So did having to prove an action to bring a killer to justice who has used every resource at his disposal to evade such so he ay continue brainwashing people and sending them to their deaths
Did he evade the US or was he given a safe passage as some people seem to suggest because with the worlds best technological resources couldn't find him for many years.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

You know why he was not indicted, the FBI have no hard evidence. That is not to say they have no evidence, they simply have evidence that might result in decades of court battles giving people in the Jihad an opportunity to eventually free him, and do something even worse.
Free him?? :blink: Please explain to me if they captured OBL, how anyone would be able to free him? The US have KSM, No2 in AQ circles and he has never been freed??

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

One thing, OBL had no conscience, no humanity, he was going to kill again, and again. Until he was stopped, that is the sort if person he was. This shortcut curtailed slaughter and brought one man to justice.
Well did it bring justice or just revenge? Because I see no justice in someone being executed before being tried.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

I am not seeing dishonesty, I am seeing a man answer to the best of his ability, and you should be happy with that, it is all one can do.
Sorry but ignoring my question and then repeating himself is not answering my questions.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

It's like your poking and prodding Sky with a stick. He gave you his answer, asking for what you want to hear time and again is not going to produce it is it?
I'm sorry if you think I am prodding and poking him, but I will not accept dishonesty from him.

If he had said "I do not know why the FBI indicted him!" or "Because they have no evidence!" or "The FBI remit wasn't to charge the FBI" or something along those lines, you would have a point. But what happens is that he dismisses my argument and then proceed spam the thread saying that OBL admitted responsibility even though I accept he has and have never denied it in the posts I have made.

If you can't see skyeagle pure stubborness in never admiting he is wrong or incorrect about something, then you are going to be further disappointed with my posts.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

He is not ignoring a point, Because he is an experienced man who has seen the world trough wars, he can smell a rat too, and probably had a better nose than you and I put together in these matters.
He is ignoring a point...lol

He is ignoring something which proves he is wrong.

You might like Skyeagle very much and he might be experienced, have a better nose or is a good rat detector but I see a intellectual coward who refuses to admit he is wrong.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

This is what he does - defend the country, he works for the pople you are accusing, and if antyhing, Sky is not biased.
So how can he not be biased when he works for the people I am supposedly accusing?? lol

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

He will expose his superiors at the drop if a hat if they do not follow procedure that benefits everyone, in fact, ,he is hanging out with the Red Tails right now.
Well i only have your word for that but judging from the dishonesty in his posts, i am not seeing anything even close or resembling critical thinking.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Do you know who they are, and what they were up against? If you do now know who the Red Tails are, may I please request that you have a look into that chapter of history, then when you understand Sky as part of such history you will see his is nobody's puppet. You are just asking too much in the wrong way is all. Like Douglas Adams said, the answer is no good if you do not know how to ask the question.
I do not know who they are and to be honest i do not see how this affects the debate.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

Guilty of what? 911? Do you really and honestly believe from one second that the most prominent man in a terrorist organisation that carried out 911 is completely innocent of the entire event? It was a war on terror, not a war on OBL, OBL was just a major target, as all superior people are.
In the eyes of the law, he is completely innocent...I do not know if he is truly guilty or not and will never know.

I know it was a war on terror and OBL wasn't a major target, this is why he was never found for many years after the events.

If OBL was a major target, then Bush would have been focusing on him rather than Saddam and Iraq.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

What about the bombings, the Fatwa against America? That makes him guilty until proven innocent, The man declared war on America, and his merry band of followers carried out his wishes in return for a mythical afterlife. Declaring war on a country would be considered quite a bad thing, wouldn't you say?
Of course declaring war is a bad thing, but just because someone declares a war doesn't automatically mean they are guilty.

I have no doubt that he had some resposibility behind the US embassy bombings because there is evidence to support it, it's why the FBII indicted him for it.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

He was guilty of the 1998 bombing, he was guilty of funding the organisation that carried out 911. The man is a murderer, and wants American people dead. All he did was cover his tracks well, and for that I think he deserves no pardon, and yes, in this case I do not have a problem with considering this person guilty before being proven so. His rejoicing in 911 was enough for that. Like I say, the FBI have no hard evidence. that does not mean no evidence, it just means it will take a long, long time to sift through the legal system.
He didn't cover any tracks well and although you think making a person guilty before being proven is just, I don't think it is and if the justice system operated that way, there would be more innocent people in jail for crimes they didn't commit because proving your innocence is much harder than proving your guilt.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

You know your second line makes it clearer if anything. Do you pursue a line when there is no hard evidence? Nope, you just act. That is what the US did before more people could be slaughtered under this madman's belief system and frankly, I thank goodness that they did.
Well you might act but the more thoughtful people will think before acting.

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:12 AM, said:

That is why people vote. So the public can decide if they have some wishy washy hippy who cannot make a decision, or someone who will just call a spade a spade and act when they have to act. The world is a better placer today because the US did act, instead of pushing this back and forth for decades to come.
Not sure how you consider the world to be a better place when we are told it is more dangerous tioday than it has ever been? lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#980    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:49 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

No it is not moot, because even though OBL admitted responsibility, the FBI never indicted him.

So why would the FBI not indicte him for his biggest crime even though he as admitted responsibility for it?? :blink:

Can you guess why yet?

So you do agree his carful word play does not absolve him from responsibility I take it?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#981    Stundie

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:52 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

Since you were unaware of the rest of the story, here it is.

The United States launched the airstrikes Oct. 7 after weeks of pressing the Taliban to give up bin Laden unconditionally.

The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.
Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.
"If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#982    Stundie

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:53 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

So you do agree his carful word play does not absolve him from responsibility I take it?
Where did I say it absolved him from responsibility?? lol

Have you read my posts?? Because I think you will find I agree that he admitted responsibility time and time again, no matter how many times he spams the forum with it. lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#983    skyeagle409

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:30 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

The Taliban would be ready to discuss handing over Osama bin Laden to a neutral country if the US halted the bombing of Afghanistan, a senior Taliban official said today.
Afghanistan's deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US.
"If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.

The United States told the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden unconditionally. Now, why would the United States demand that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden unconditionally?

Quote

September 10th, 2002: bin Ladin and others

"Two days before the anniversary of the September attacks and at a time the U.S. is using its war on terror to launch an attack against Iraq, Qatar’s Al-Jazeera satellite channel on Monday, September 9, aired video-clips in which it says Osama bin Ladin claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks on the United States"...

Apart from Atta, bin Ladin named Lebanese Ziyad al-Jarrah, Marwan al-Shehhi from the United Arab Emirates, “who destroyed the second tower” of the World Trade Center, and Hani Hanjour (from the Saudi city of Taef) “who destroyed the Pentagon.”

Al-Jazeera showed photographs of Hamza al-Ghamdi (alias Julailib al-Ghamdi), Saeed al-Ghamdi (alias Mutaz al-Ghamdi), Wael al-Shehri (alias Abu Suleiman) and Ahmad Naami (Abu Hisham), whose names, like those cited by bin Ladin, figure on the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) list of hijackers.

Al-Jazeera also aired footage of one of the hijackers saying in his “will” that he was trained by Laden.


http://www.911myths....onsibility.html

-------------------------------------------------------------

May 2003: Ayman Al Zawahiri

Learn from your 19 brothers who attacked America in its planes in New York and Washington and caused it a tribulation that it never witnessed before and is still suffering from its injuries until today.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ast/3047903.stm


As I have asserted time and again, there was no US government 911 conspiracy.

Edited by skyeagle409, 19 February 2013 - 02:44 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#984    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:58 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

There was no paper trail, so it didn't not vanish. It never existed. They turned over 2 countries which were suppose to have all kinds of links to Al-Qaeda and they didn't find a single thing implicating him.

Now you are catching on, I too believe, it never existed, It was in planning for years before the event, and with OBL's high profile, he is not ever going to do anything but help their mission fail. False signatures, representatives, smart people and cash deals got this as far as it did get. Hell, I built half my house on cash, on paper it does not exist, but I live in it.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Did he evade the US or was he given a safe passage as some people seem to suggest because with the worlds best technological resources couldn't find him for many years.

I think people want to believe he was given safe passage so they can justify their crusade against the Government. However if he was given safe passage, and that can be proven, I would not like to be living in Pakistan.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Free him?? :blink: Please explain to me if they captured OBL, how anyone would be able to free him? The US have KSM, No2 in AQ circles and he has never been freed??

The same BS people are playing here, no hard evidence, I doubt any person would insist the legal system is perfect, not to mention with people ready to kill themselves for religion, what act is too desperate? He is a liability because of his position within Al Qaeda. I do not think the US allows preconceptions since Kamikaze pilots.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Well did it bring justice or just revenge? Because I see no justice in someone being executed before being tried.

Justice. 1998 bombing.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Sorry but ignoring my question and then repeating himself is not answering my questions.
I'm sorry if you think I am prodding and poking him, but I will not accept dishonesty from him.

I know Sky, and I believe he feels has has answered your questions. I do not see what continually repeating both achieves, you know what you know, Sky knows what he knows. Lets lay down the guns and put it all on the table and discuss it like grown ups.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

If he had said "I do not know why the FBI indicted him!" or "Because they have no evidence!" or "The FBI remit wasn't to charge the FBI" or something along those lines, you would have a point. But what happens is that he dismisses my argument and then proceed spam the thread saying that OBL admitted responsibility even though I accept he has and have never denied it in the posts I have made.

Fair enough, but we can see that is not going to happen. Goading Sky is only going to fill the thread quickly with non productive responses because as far as Sky is concerned, he has answered the question. To move on, you need to examine his response and then guide it if it is in a different vein. After all, you are asking the question, it is your responsibility to make it as clear is is possible.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

If you can't see skyeagle pure stubborness in never admiting he is wrong or incorrect about something, then you are going to be further disappointed with my posts.
He is ignoring a point...lol

He is ignoring something which proves he is wrong.

Or, he believes that with what he knows, this is an adequate reply. As you say, OBL is responsible, that might to some mean enough evidence wether it be on paper or not. Many of us old school guys are used to making a thing happen and worrying about paperwork later. Sometimes we have to remember we are talking across Oceans, and it is not always as easy as one might imagine, it certainly has it's drawbacks, I have had many such misunderstandings myself. I do not think Sky would deliberately annoy you with this, I have a feeling he is as frustrated as you are.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

You might like Skyeagle very much and he might be experienced, have a better nose or is a good rat detector but I see a intellectual coward who refuses to admit he is wrong.

I must say here that Sky and I have fought bitterly in the past, to a point where mods have stepped in. Like I say, I call a spade a spade, and if I do not agree, I will passionately argue what I believe to be a truthful claim. But I do know that even with repetitive answers that seem to lead nowhere, Sky can often after pages suddenly uncover a nugget of information that everyone has missed. Like I say, we have fought bitterly, but he made me a stronger person for it. I respect him as one of the best I have debated, but it took me some time to recognise that. Sky is not what I call an intellectual debater, he is hands on. An experienced person. He wont tell you the technical tolerances of an engine, but by gum, he will know what it can do, and how to build it, who uses it and it's flaws. But in regular speak. He is different to most posters, I suppose I understand his style of discussion because I am old school too. I doubt too many men who call Sky a coward to his face manage to retain their balance for long afterwards.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

So how can he not be biased when he works for the people I am supposedly accusing?? lol

As I said above, ask him about any cover up. Like I say, Sky is old school, and he expects everyone to play by the rules, even the USAF. He outright has accused the USAF of witholding information where he believes they are.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Well i only have your word for that but judging from the dishonesty in his posts, i am not seeing anything even close or resembling critical thinking.
I do not know who they are and to be honest i do not see how this affects the debate.

It affects the debate only because it shows Sky is not a poster boy for the USAF, he does his job, and if he feels the job is not being done how it should be, he makes a noise about it. The Red Tails had more than their share of unfairness to overcome from racist authorities. Sky does not allow that sort of BS to stand in the way of the truth as he knows it to be.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

In the eyes of the law, he is completely innocent...I do not know if he is truly guilty or not and will never know.

Not completely, it is just we will never know what has been uncovered. All the FBI would state is that they do not have hard evidence. Which really  means any sort of trail. And in todays digital world, I completely believe that is not at all impossible. Not like there would have been much to cover up is there. A very small operation, and what did remain is not considered "hard" evidence.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

I know it was a war on terror and OBL wasn't a major target, this is why he was never found for many years after the events.

I do not know if that was why he managed to hold out so long, I have not been personally to the zone, but my little sister did. From what I understand, it is a pretty big place and easy to hide in. It does not seem outrageous to me at all considering many prisoners manage to evade capture for years at a time all the while living in a community under the very noses of authorities. And I think Saddam was doing more direct harm to innocent people at the time, as you say, taking the focus.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

If OBL was a major target, then Bush would have been focusing on him rather than Saddam and Iraq.

One things at a time I suppose. OBL was never going to make his death easy, and he was always going to die. They managed to uncover some atrocities in the meantime, and put a stop to such behaviour.

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Of course declaring war is a bad thing, but just because someone declares a war doesn't automatically mean they are guilty.

Even if their own soldiers attack your country?

Stundie
I have no doubt that he had some resposibility behind the US embassy bombings because there is evidence to support it, it's why the FBII indicted him for it.


That it seems was enough.

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden is a longtime and prominent member of the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" list, which notes his role as the suspected mastermind of the deadly U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa on Aug. 7, 1998.
But another more infamous date -- Sept. 11, 2001 -- is nowhere to be found on the same FBI notice.
The curious omission underscores the Justice Department's decision, so far, to not seek formal criminal charges against bin Laden for approving al-Qaeda's most notorious and successful terrorist attack. The notice says bin Laden is "a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world" but does not provide details.
The absence has also provided fodder for conspiracy theorists who think the U.S. government or another power was behind the Sept. 11 hijackings. From this point of view, the lack of a Sept. 11 reference suggests that the connection to al-Qaeda is uncertain.
Exhaustive government and independent investigations have concluded otherwise, of course, and bin Laden and other al-Qaeda leaders have proudly taken responsibility for the hijackings. FBI officials say the wanted poster merely reflects the government's long-standing practice of relying on actual criminal charges in the notices.
"There's no mystery here," said FBI spokesman Rex Tomb. "They could add 9/11 on there, but they have not because they don't need to at this point. . . . There is a logic to it."
David N. Kelley, the former U.S. attorney in New York who oversaw terrorism cases when bin Laden was indicted for the embassy bombings there in 1998, said he is not at all surprised by the lack of a reference to Sept. 11 on the official wanted poster. Kelley said the issue is a matter of legal restrictions and the need to be fair to any defendant.
"It might seem a little strange from the outside, but it makes sense from a legal point of view," said Kelley, now in private practice. "If I were in government, I'd be troubled if I were asked to put up a wanted picture where no formal charges had been filed, no matter who it was."

LINK

Stundie
He didn't cover any tracks well and although you think making a person guilty before being proven is just, I don't think it is and if the justice system operated that way, there would be more innocent people in jail for crimes they didn't commit because proving your innocence is much harder than proving your guilt.


OhhI think he covered his tracks very well. Every person alive knows he had extensive wealth, can you account for his whereabouts in the 2 years before 911 and ever since? Can anyone prove he had nothing to do with 911, or is everyone just focused on the hard evidence the FBI failed to locate after the event? If anything, I think that displays that we cannot be trusting with each other any more any place.

Indeed on can cover tracks, and particularly so when you have had time to prepare for such. So why give him this luxury when he does have a number on his head for other murders? I think every sane person in the world knows he was involved, and funded the operation. I do not feel he deserves lighter treatment because the processes of justice, are like his own trail, made difficult to follow? To me it seems to be rewarding criminals for being very good at crime. We know he did it, we know he covered it up, can we prove something when he destroyed the evidence?

Stundie
Well you might act but the more thoughtful people will think before acting.


I see what you are saying, and I do believe that being thorough is beneficial, however I also feel there is a difference between being thorough and wasting time, and I feel a wise person can differentiate the two. The time had passed, people had died, and would continue to die under his order. OBL was killed, Al Qaeda took a serious blow. I would like to know however where his funds have gone, no doubt to family, but it should go to victims, and rebuilding the WTC.

Stundie
Not sure how you consider the world to be a better place when we are told it is more dangerous tioday than it has ever been? lol


Because one less insane murderer exists today. Several in fact. Statistics are BS, I can find one to suit whatever I want. Maybe I am spoiled in the luck country, we have no guns, we have no wars. But it seems like a pretty good place to me. Man's achievements are something I find worth being proud of. I watched the camera on the bottom of Curiosity as it landed, I looked upon another planet. I think that is a good world to be in.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#985    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:02 AM

View PostStundie, on 19 February 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

Where did I say it absolved him from responsibility?? lol

Have you read my posts?? Because I think you will find I agree that he admitted responsibility time and time again, no matter how many times he spams the forum with it. lol

I am still catching up with the thread as earlier mentioned, so I apologise if I have repeated you position, in fact I caught on after posting the above, but had not got around to correcting this misunderstanding as yet, if that is even possible.

No offence intended, and thank you for answering. I just wish to know where everyone stands, because it seems to be something of a default position that goes hand in hand with the CT. Q 24 seems to be of the understanding that he is not responsible at all as I understand.

Your biggest point appears to be that the FBI did not have hard evidence to indict him with 911, is that right? Do you feel that makes the good work the Navy Seals did unjustified? May I ask you where you intend leading with that, and what it changes with the situation as we know it?

Edited by psyche101, 19 February 2013 - 03:04 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#986    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:12 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

The United States told the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden unconditionally. Now, why would the United States demand that the Taliban hand over Osama bin Laden unconditionally?



As I have asserted time and again, there was no US government 911 conspiracy.

Gidday Sky

Indeed, unconditional being the key word here. If Al Qaeda were happy to hand over OBL, then why were conditions placed on the transfer?

We are to believe this religious fundi group with a record of sending children to their deaths to place their religion in a noticeable position, and selfishly claim gifts of the afterlife as service for crime are really just trying to get a fair deal for Usama?

Yeah, And I'll take two of them bridges thanks LOL. Those poor hard done by terrorists! Imagine nobody believing them at their word simply based on a long history of lies deceit and murder! What have we become LOL

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#987    skyeagle409

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:25 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

Gidday Sky

Indeed, unconditional being the key word here. If Al Qaeda were happy to hand over OBL, then why were conditions placed on the transfer?

We are to believe this religious fundi group with a record of sending children to their deaths to place their religion in a noticeable position, and selfishly claim gifts of the afterlife as service for crime are really just trying to get a fair deal for Usama?

Yeah, And I'll take two of them bridges thanks LOL. Those poor hard done by terrorists! Imagine nobody believing them at their word simply based on a long history of lies deceit and murder! What have we become LOL

Cheers.

How's it going? Yes indeed, "unconditional" is the word of the day. The terrorist are killing foreigners, and slaughtering hundreds of innocent Muslims as well, and for what?! .

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#988    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 19 February 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

How's it going? Yes indeed, "unconditional" is the word of the day. The terrorist are killing foreigners, and slaughtering hundreds of innocent Muslims as well, and for what?! .

Gidday Mate

Bud, it's coming down cats and dogs, I hope we do not get another flood.

For a misguided religious principal twisted by mortal men to benefit themselves. Indeed, unconditional is the word of the day, Al Qaeda refused it, but why is anyone guess. I somehow doubt that Al Qaeda were just after a fair shake.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#989    Nathan DiYorio

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:11 AM

View Postredhen, on 12 January 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

For those who hold that 911 was an inside job, I would like to discover why you believe those responsible would have executed this plan.

I can only think of one possible reason that might make sense; to launch a war, to give the armed forces combat experience.

You go.

Thanks

So Bush JR. could finish what Bush SR. started.
To make Bush look like a hero in the eyes of America.

If it is a conspiracy, its sole purpose would be propaganda and nothing more.
If it is a conspiracy, I don't think it went or is going according to plan.

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#990    redhen

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:33 AM

View PostXetan, on 19 February 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

So Bush JR. could finish what Bush SR. started.

Bush Sr. invaded Afghanistan too?

Quote

To make Bush look like a hero in the eyes of America.

By dragging America into another quagmire for years?  Brilliant plan, just like the Gulf of Tonkin incident launched the ever popular Vietnam war.

Quote

If it is a conspiracy, its sole purpose would be propaganda and nothing more.

Hmm, not money, power or oil? Well, you sir have an original theory, congrats.

Quote

If it is a conspiracy, I don't think it went or is going according to plan.

Hmm, yeah, not exactly geopolitical/realpolitik masterminds. (without all their staff, I don't think these politicians could plan a wedding party)





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