25 replies to this topic

[spud the mackem]

A Senior Writer of  popular Astronomy site has quoted that he is almost certain that Earth type Alien Planets will be found during 2013,
http://www.space.com 18775-possiblly-habitable-:
Scientists and Astronomers are studying the possibilities, but most of these are a lot of light years distant.

[stevewinn]

I have no doubt we'll find earth like planets, it now seems whichever way we look planets are found, some earth like in the loose sense of the word but none the less still planets orbiting a star or stars. as for life i bet life is everywhere, yet the question is how come we still havent picked up any signals from a distance star system, - systems that are within range. maybe its not life that is rare maybe its just the jump from life to intelligent life. i mean how many species have ever existed on earth. yet out of the billion or two years we are the only species to make that jump. - its something to ponder.

[bison]

If we grant intelligence to, at least, all members of our own genus (homo), then at least 12 species besides our own, over the past 2 million years, have managed to be notably intelligent. That sounds as if intelligence is a common and adaptively valuable trait.

[stevewinn]

bison, on 29 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

If we grant intelligence to, at least, all members of our own genus (homo), then at least 12 species besides our own, over the past 2 million years, have managed to be notably intelligent. That sounds as if intelligence is a common and adaptively valuable trait.

Yes, it seems like a logical step. - we've reached a stage whereby we are truly intelligent and through that intelligence created technology which can be detected from beyond the earth. but in the grand time scale of Billions of years on the journey from simple cell life onwards only us have made that jump. so i just wonder on average how long it takes? if we go off our own time scale it must take on average 4 billion years from a planet forming to detectable intelligent life. but that then raises more questions and we end up with more questions than answers with all the variables, some scientists must have made the calculations - its just strange to look at the night sky and wonder were the bloody hell is everyone else>? i'd like to think life is abundant in the cosmos and its the jump to detectable intelligence which is the sticking point, because how else would we explain the deafening silence?

[bison]

There have been quite a few attempts to explain the 'deafening silence'. They don't all involve the absence, or rarity, of intelligent life and technical civilizations in the galaxy. My personal favorite is the one that says that Earth is under a contact embargo, which at some point might be withdrawn. Earth could be the galactic equivalent of a cultural and biological preserve. We may have to cross some threshold before the harm to us through overt extraterrestrial contact is deemed to be outweighed by the benefits to ourselves and the rest of the inhabited galaxy.

[Troublehalf]

I know some people theorize that humanity has been lucky in the sense it hasn't been wiped out yet by something. Many believe that life exists, but intelligent life is wiped out before they can reach our stage of development. Others say that other intelligent life has no interest in finding other life and thus doesn't even bother to look. Imagine a society where religion has completely blocked scientific progression? Even if they have lived a billion years more than us, they could still theoretically be in 'medieval' period technology.

I too like Bison's idea. That humans are not allowed to be out rightly contacted. That Earth is to remain a "scientific" planet in terms of galatic visitation. With surveys of flora, fauna and humans the limit of contact, with full on "contact" banned until humans are considered safe. I mean, imagine aliens watched our alien invasion films, imagine if they had no concept of invasion... They'd just see alien life being attacked by humans. Not a great message. Still, alien invasion films are logically flawed. Any advance race of aliens should be able to wipe out humanity without using foot soldiers. Simple case of abducting humans (some claim has already happened, it's possible) and formulating a virus/bacteria that kills us in the billions. Such viruses already exist. Imagine the Ebola Virus combined with the common cold, an extremely contagious, highly adaptable and highly evolutionary virus which kills. (Again, some say governments have already done this and could be deployed as a weapon).

I'm seriously ill and that itself is depressing, but it's discovery of amazing things and the future of mankind that keep me from killing myself. I couldn't live with myself (pun intended) if I committed suicide and the next day alien intelligence was discovered. However, I believe humanity will discover alien life within my life time. I do, however, believe it will be bacterial. In fact, I believe the Mars Mission Curiosity has already discovered alien bacteria and it's been covered up. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but the events of that story don't add up. I could explain, but I will not, unless asked.

Long post over!

[Merc14]

stevewinn, on 29 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Yes, it seems like a logical step. - we've reached a stage whereby we are truly intelligent and through that intelligence created technology which can be detected from beyond the earth. but in the grand time scale of Billions of years on the journey from simple cell life onwards only us have made that jump. so i just wonder on average how long it takes? if we go off our own time scale it must take on average 4 billion years from a planet forming to detectable intelligent life. but that then raises more questions and we end up with more questions than answers with all the variables, some scientists must have made the calculations - its just strange to look at the night sky and wonder were the bloody hell is everyone else>? i'd like to think life is abundant in the cosmos and its the jump to detectable intelligence which is the sticking point, because how else would we explain the deafening silence?

One theory about the deafening silence is that we are looking for radio waves and it is postulated that an intelligent species would only be using those types of waves, at an appreciable power, for a couple of hundred years.  Even now we are moving to digital communications run over fiber and cable or bounced off satellites.  How long till high powered radio becomes a rare thing here on earth?

[HuntrSThompsun]

I got dibs on president!

[bison]

Troublehalf, on 03 January 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

I know some people theorize that humanity has been lucky in the sense it hasn't been wiped out yet by something. Many believe that life exists, but intelligent life is wiped out before they can reach our stage of development. Others say that other intelligent life has no interest in finding other life and thus doesn't even bother to look. Imagine a society where religion has completely blocked scientific progression? Even if they have lived a billion years more than us, they could still theoretically be in 'medieval' period technology.

I too like Bison's idea. That humans are not allowed to be out rightly contacted. That Earth is to remain a "scientific" planet in terms of galatic visitation. With surveys of flora, fauna and humans the limit of contact, with full on "contact" banned until humans are considered safe. I mean, imagine aliens watched our alien invasion films, imagine if they had no concept of invasion... They'd just see alien life being attacked by humans. Not a great message. Still, alien invasion films are logically flawed. Any advance race of aliens should be able to wipe out humanity without using foot soldiers. Simple case of abducting humans (some claim has already happened, it's possible) and formulating a virus/bacteria that kills us in the billions. Such viruses already exist. Imagine the Ebola Virus combined with the common cold, an extremely contagious, highly adaptable and highly evolutionary virus which kills. (Again, some say governments have already done this and could be deployed as a weapon).

I'm seriously ill and that itself is depressing, but it's discovery of amazing things and the future of mankind that keep me from killing myself. I couldn't live with myself (pun intended) if I committed suicide and the next day alien intelligence was discovered. However, I believe humanity will discover alien life within my life time. I do, however, believe it will be bacterial. In fact, I believe the Mars Mission Curiosity has already discovered alien bacteria and it's been covered up. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but the events of that story don't add up. I could explain, but I will not, unless asked.

Long post over!

   Yes, Troublehalf, please explain why you believe that the Curiosity mission on Mars has already discovered alien bacteria, and this fact concealed. Why do you say that the events in the narrative about Curiosity don't add up?

[pallidin]

Sorry to hear that you are "seriously ill"  

[bison]

stevewinn, on 29 December 2012 - 08:41 PM, said:

Yes, it seems like a logical step. - we've reached a stage whereby we are truly intelligent and through that intelligence created technology which can be detected from beyond the earth. but in the grand time scale of Billions of years on the journey from simple cell life onwards only us have made that jump. so i just wonder on average how long it takes? if we go off our own time scale it must take on average 4 billion years from a planet forming to detectable intelligent life. but that then raises more questions and we end up with more questions than answers with all the variables, some scientists must have made the calculations - its just strange to look at the night sky and wonder were the bloody hell is everyone else>? i'd like to think life is abundant in the cosmos and its the jump to detectable intelligence which is the sticking point, because how else would we explain the deafening silence?

   It's not really clear that ours was the only species of the genus homo that might have progressed enough, technologically speaking, to make itself apparent to intelligent life in other star systems. If we hadn't managed this, one of the others might have, in due time. It looks like there could have been a number of candidate-species waiting to assume the mantle of 'technological man'. It may not have been so much a matter of unique intellectual capacity, but a combination of  chance circumstances that enabled us to achieve what we have. Much of what we think of as technological ability or inventiveness may have been fostered by some accidental discovery that another species  could just as well have hit upon. This could have sent us down the road to an advanced technological future. It might have sent another species down the same road. The odds of some one species of the genus Homo becoming highly adept at technology  look all the better, given the number of promising species.

Edited by bison, 03 January 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[Andromedan Starseed 333]

we will find various eath like planets with the abilities to sustain life i know we will.the thing we people and as a species though is we have to take care better of our planet earth as well.because if we don't take care of planet earth its going to be the same when we do find other earth like planets we have to start here fiosrt though.we need to find and start using free clean environmental enrgy using solar power,runnin water,wind power and etc instead of polluting the planet because its going to be the same thing with other planets.but the universe is unlimited so yeah we will find various earth like planets no doubt.i'm not a big fan of NASA but they will find other planets.also that will br so cool and amazing if we could find alien like life as well.i hope we find this year or real soon

Edited by King Cobra 1408, 03 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[spud the mackem]

Give it another 2/300 years and we may be technologically advanced enough to determine that other life exists on other planets,as I'm sure it does.There are 1000's of inventions that we have discovered in the last 100/200 years so we are still in the stages of technoligical infancy. Just think that President G.Washington would have loved Airforce One, Admiral Lord Nelson would have loved an Aircraft Carrier and so on. Give us Humans a chance to develope before stating that we have advanced technology,In comparison we are infants just learning to walk and talk.

[coolguy]

I think they have one allready...

[Troublehalf]

bison, on 03 January 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yes, Troublehalf, please explain why you believe that the Curiosity mission on Mars has already discovered alien bacteria, and this fact concealed. Why do you say that the events in the narrative about Curiosity don't add up?

OK. Here is why I think something happened. Firstly, the scientist announces that something has been discovered that will "Go down in the history books". Now that in itself is strange as you rarely hear that from scientists unless it's been "in the making" for decades. Anyway, so the media latches on to it and does their thing. They later interview the scientist who basically says something along the lines of "I got over excited, it isn't anything amazing for the general public, like life, but for scientists it's very exciting". When they finally interview them during the press release, the same scientist goes "I've learnt to keep my mouth shut and to take care with the words I use. When I said 'Go down in the history books' I meant the quality of the samples and data we were getting from the Rover. We've tested the samples and found chlorinated methane, an organic compound which could involve life. Also found carbon dioxide and water vapour when we heat the sample" So on so forth. So, the same scientist has gone from "Go down in the history books" to "It's only interesting for scientists" to "Oh the quality of data we received is what will go down in the history books". This gets even stranger when the scientists declared the finding of chlorinated methane could of been "contamination" from Earth.


Now, this wouldn't be that strange if NASA hadn't been seen entering the White House after the original announcement was made. Why did they go there? Why did they bother the President of the United States of America, the man who has to deal with $18 trillion in debt and to sort out lots of other things, just to tell him about stuff only scientists will be into? They went there, even if it was just to mention the discovery of an organic compound, only to go "Oh, it's probably contamination, don't worry Mr. President". It gets even more curious that after the original announcement, NASA announced an unscheduled additional sample gathering mission. Basically, they added another sample gathering event. A strange thing to do if you ask me.


Next, the media suddenly changed it's tune as well, from headlines such as:
"Mars Rover 'Curiosity' Team Reportedly Will Reveal Major Discovery In December"

to


"NASA Lowers Expectations for its ‘Earth-Shaking’ Mars Announcement"



So, in short:


1. The fact the scientist who announced it went from super excited, making statements such as "history books" to "Sorry guys, it'll only interest us scientists" to "I was talking about the data quality, sorry".
2. The apparent visitation to the White House by NASA staff (Which I can't find any info online about, but I did see it in a discussion on a comments section, sorry, not that great of evidence but I don't see why they would lie about it)
3. Media changing it's tune
4. Announcing new missions already




If you look around, the media is just making fun of the situation, going "Oh it was just a big misunderstanding, HO HO HO! Over excited scientist went crazy over quality of data! HO HO HO! Silly scientist!". Sorry, the words used and the sudden "I should learn to keep my mouth shut" seemed to be a very strange reaction. Not to mention, I think it might of been on here, some member said "I asked my NASA scientist friend about what the discovery was, she just smiled and shook her head before saying she couldn't say" - That's a bit of a strange reaction too.... Why not? There is really a code of conduct for announcing the quality of transmitted data? This scientist was seriously saying that the data "Would go down in the history books"?


Sorry, I find it all a bit odd. Even if no NASA members arrived at the White House, the scientists retraction of his statements, the three different versions he gave... All seems very odd to me. It might not of been life, they could of found valuable materials and had to keep silent. They could of found oil, meaning the planet did have life on it once. That announcement would be just as big as going "We found bacteria!". Perhaps Governments are still unwilling to tell the world the truth about aliens or whatever. Perhaps even the mention of bacteria, which would confirm alien life DOES exist, it's just not intelligent/sentient could cause mass panic, religions could go hay-wire and stuff like that. It's all very odd.


So, yeah, there we go. Maybe I am just 'over-excited' just like the scientist apparently was, but either way I find the entire series of events very strange. I believe we will find bacteria life somewhere, probably on an asteroid, before a planet. I won't be alive to see space travel (if we can even achieve it...) to distant planets and the like. It fills me with such sorrow that I was born "too early" to explore the universe. So I was born too late to explore the world and now too early to explore the universe. I just hope we cure ageing in 25 years like that world renowned scientist said we will.



I can't seem to add pictures, I keep getting "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community." Even when I try adding it using the Image option on the reply bar..... Any help?

pallidin, on 03 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Sorry to hear that you are "seriously ill"  

Thanks. Been ill since I was 14, seriously for 5 years now, from 16 to 22 (my current age). I've been bed ridden, 24/7 for those 5 years, getting up only with the aid of diamorphine, neuropathic painkillers and psychoactive drugs to go to the bathroom or whatever. I also suffer from my mitochondrial DNA dying. I also have malalignment syndrome, which basically means my muscles tear open every time I use them, mostly my lower half. It isn't nice! Thankfully my computer is right next to my bed and I can go on it when I'm not sleeping. Which is a lot due to various reasons and illnesses. The thing is, I wasn't too bad from 14-18, I even managed to get a place in Medical School, but then it all went south and I couldn't stay awake, couldn't think, couldn't use my hands properly or do fine movement or anything. It really was sucky. Though, thanks for the kind words, it means a lot!

Edited by Troublehalf, 05 January 2013 - 11:03 AM.