85 replies to this topic

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 23 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Lol, they can't even take over India, and there's something like 2 hundred million muslims there...

Take over the World Who comes up with this stuff?

Oh and Hamas receives funding from Iran and some of the Islamic States. And contrary to what most people seem to think, the vast majority of their money is used to provide for the people of Gaza, not to buy rockets. This is why they are loved (they started doing so back in the early 90's, when Fatah were too busy lining their own corrupt pockets at the expense of the citizens - this is primarily what led to the rise of Hamas).

Common aspirations have gone a long way toward it many times in the past.  Imagine the prospect of  Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States all coming under a form of government integrated with or sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood.  That benign, purely political entity in Egypt whose members are now clamoring for Sharia law?  If they came together under a common goal of unifying Muslims politically they could use the oil to strangle Western power.  I'm not saying it's coming soon but I don't think the possibility should lightly be cast aside either - especially when an eventually nuclear Iran causes some of the Sunni States to build bombs as well.

[pallidin]

ExpandMyMind, on 23 November 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Take over the World... Who comes up with this stuff?

That's easy... the radical Muslims have proclaimed their full intention of first taking-over the Middle East, than the entire world.

[The New Richard Nixon]

pallidin, on 23 November 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

That's easy... the radical Muslims have proclaimed their full intention of first taking-over the Middle East, than the entire world.

and how many times have we seen that fail?

[The New Richard Nixon]

Anyway Israel and Gaza should learn something from the Koreas, North Korea attacked the S.korean island a few years back, South Korea shot back and that was the end of the matter.

[pallidin]

The New Richard Nixon, on 23 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Anyway Israel and Gaza should learn something from the Koreas, North Korea attacked the S.korean island a few years back, South Korea shot back and that was the end of the matter.

Hamas and "partners" will never learn ANYTHING from civilized society, other than weaponry to promote their sick agenda.

EDIT: Israel, and other peaceful nations, should vigorously defend against their destruction.

Edited by pallidin, 23 November 2012 - 11:07 AM.

[and then]

The New Richard Nixon, on 23 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Anyway Israel and Gaza should learn something from the Koreas, North Korea attacked the S.korean island a few years back, South Korea shot back and that was the end of the matter.

You don't really think of those two as being equivalent, do you?  The Koreans are kindred, yes, but they have no bloody religious divide between them - it's purely political.  It's also a relatively recent phenomena.  The blood lust in Palestine has been going on for millennia.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Yeah i know but to take something from it.

Anyway this story has just come in, a gaza man has been shot dead after near border, 10 injured. Witnesses say they were farmers protesting and THE IDF is invesitagting
http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20461914

[and then]

The New Richard Nixon, on 23 November 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Yeah i know but to take something from it.

Anyway this story has just come in, a gaza man has been shot dead after near border, 10 injured. Witnesses say they were farmers protesting and THE IDF is invesitagting
http://www.bbc.co.uk...e-east-20461914

I think the reason such force is used is not explained very well by the IDF.  Maybe they just assume everyone understands.  Part of the escalation that occurred prior to the eight day Gaza campaign was that a tunnel had been dug into Israeli territory and filled with explosives.  The plan had been to detonate the tunnel when troops were near, then use the confusion to quickly kill but also CAPTURE some IDF troops.  When one soldier is worth 1500 or so prisoners, well, that's a pretty good incentive, no?  So when IDF forces see any group walking toward the fence it probably makes them a tad wary.

[joc]

Ambush Bug, on 23 November 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Equally mind boggling is the rockets and white phosphorous Israel has rained down on Gaza and your government is powerless to respond to it or defend against it because it has no standing army, no armour corps, and no warplanes. It's mind boggling. It really is.

...and no infrastructure to speak of, sewer lines, highway systems, etc....why?  Because they haven't taken the initiative to do anything....

BlackRedLittleDevil, on 23 November 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Can you also imagine being blockaded and basically imprisoned in your own country by an outside force which forces you into poverty because it limits your progress and development as a nation?  How many rockets would you like to fire against that country?

Wow.  You guys seriously need to be educated as to the history of all of this.  Firstly, Israel wasn't attacking Egypt...Egypt was attacking Israel...we are in the 1960s now okay...google Israel 6 day war...Israel waged swift and decisive war on Egypt and claimed as her own the territories of Egypt that she took in the war.   There were a lot of Arabs who were left in limbo as a result.  Did they go back into the new borders of Egypt?  No!  They blamed Israel, demanding Israel give the land back that they took in the war.  Sorry guys, but that is the end result of war.  For decades Yassir Arafat waged war against Israel.  Arabs blowing themselves up in market places inside Israel were common with massive casualties.  Israel has had to fight every step of the way just to survive!  Not to mention the near extermination at the hands of Adolf Hitler.

If the 'Palestinians' wanted peace, they would have taken the lands that Israel gave them and done something with it...they have done nothing..because they don't want peace...they want the destruction of Israel. You obviously do not understand that Hamas is nothing more than an extension of Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood is nothing more than an extension of Iran.  Hamas has as its stated goal, the destruction of Israel.

So the question is:  If I was dedicated to the proposition of killing the both of you, and your mothers, and your fathers, and your sisters, and your brothers...and burning down your house...what exactly would you do?   All along the way you have said you just wanted to live in peace with me...and all along the way I kill a member of your family every chance I get.  What would you do?  You know what you would do.  You would kill me.

Israel is NOT the problem.   The Muslim Brotherhood...the Radical Muslim Jihadists....those who scream incessently 'There is no god but Allah' and seek to place everyone under their system of Religious Totalitarianism are the problem.

You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie.  It has always been a lie.  Where were these 'Palestinians' before the 6 day war in the 1960s?  They were nomads living in the desert...they had no homeland then either...their homeland was the deserts occupied by Egypt.

So...I know I won't change your minds...you cannot battle Hate with reason.  I have tried to educate you however as to the truth of this matter...good day!

Edited by joc, 23 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[ExpandMyMind]

Egypt didn't attack Israel in '67, Israel attacked Egypt (and the rest) in a surprise attack. And interational observers of the time stated that Nasser, for all his huffing and puffing, was not planning on attacking Israel. Even Israel's own leaders have admitted as much. And Israel's prime minister of the time clearly realised Israel were in the wrong for attacking first when he lied to the UN soon after, in an attempted defence of Israel's actions, stating that Egypt's air force was flying over Israel attacking them.

Also,  'Sorry guys, but that is the end result of war'. Em, no it isn't. According to international law (the same law that allowed for the creation of Israel) it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the course of war. This was why http://en.wikipedia...._Resolution_242 was drafted.

Edited by ExpandMyMind, 23 November 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[and then]

ExpandMyMind, on 23 November 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Egypt didn't attack Israel in '67, Israel attacked Egypt (and the rest) in a surprise attack. And interational observers of the time stated that Nasser, for all his huffing and puffing, was not planning on attacking Israel. Even Israel's own leaders have admitted as much. And Israel's prime minister of the time clearly realised Israel were in the wrong for attacking first when he lied to the UN soon after, in an attempted defence of Israel's actions, stating that Egypt's air force was flying over Israel attacking them.

Also,  'Sorry guys, but that is the end result of war'. Em, no it isn't. According to international law (the same law that allowed for the creation of Israel) it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the course of war. This was why http://en.wikipedia...._Resolution_242 was drafted.

Interesting that it had been universally accepted prior to that time though.  And Egypt blockading the straits of Tiran was no provocation?  Or massing several divisions in the Sinai when they normally did no such thing?  Syria also mobilized as I recall.  Jordan was the fence sitter but they also came into the fold eventually.  So to imply that Israel acted in some sort of vacuum of aggression is not historically accurate.  They saw what was coming and after months of attempted negotiations with the US and the Arab neighbors they decided that they had to act preemptively or possibly be ruined in a war by most of their neighbors.  But YES they did strike first - and with spectacular effect.  Nasser's man Sadat was so humiliated by the Egyptian troops skedaddling toward the border and battalions giving up to a few IDF troops that he was obsessed with reclaiming their honor - hence the 1973 war.

[ExpandMyMind]

and then, on 23 November 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

Interesting that it had been universally accepted prior to that time though.  And Egypt blockading the straits of Tiran was no provocation?  Or massing several divisions in the Sinai when they normally did no such thing?  Syria also mobilized as I recall.  Jordan was the fence sitter but they also came into the fold eventually.  So to imply that Israel acted in some sort of vacuum of aggression is not historically accurate.  They saw what was coming and after months of attempted negotiations with the US and the Arab neighbors they decided that they had to act preemptively or possibly be ruined in a war by most of their neighbors.  But YES they did strike first - and with spectacular effect.  Nasser's man Sadat was so humiliated by the Egyptian troops skedaddling toward the border and battalions giving up to a few IDF troops that he was obsessed with reclaiming their honor - hence the 1973 war.

It had not been 'universally accepted' at all before then.

The blockade was a provocation, but not an act of war. And definitely not something that impacted Israel's national security. Massing troops within their own border is also not an act of war. If anything, it is an act of defence.

Quote

Menachem Begin, a member of the Israeli cabinet in June 1967, publicly admitted: "The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."

http://www.ussliberty.org/orenbook.htm

I wasn't implying that Israel 'acted in some sort of vacuum of aggression', I was simply stating that they were the ones who attacked. This is after years of baiting Syria into attacking them in the DMZ.

According to Israel's intelligence community and the military, along with the U.S.' own estimations, it would have taken Israel around a week to destroy all of the Arab forces if Israel attacked first, and two weeks to destroy them if the Arabs attacked first. While Israeli politicians were screaming of the possibility of the death of Israel, we need only look to the intelligence community and their estimations to see that their over reactions were nothing more than theatre and paranoia. Israel was in no real danger of being eliminated. The sources for this information are provided in the link I supplied to you the other day there.

You should read the link.

[The New Richard Nixon]

Agree with expanded Israel attacked first in Jordan owned West Bank or a part of that area.

Joc you just want people to die

[WHO U KIDDIN]

joc, on 23 November 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Israel is NOT the problem.   The Muslim Brotherhood...the Radical Muslim Jihadists....those who scream incessently 'There is no god but Allah' and seek to place everyone under their system of Religious Totalitarianism are the problem.

You guys have bought into the whole lie of Palestine.  It is a lie.  It has always been a lie.  Where were these 'Palestinians' before the 6 day war in the 1960s?  They were nomads living in the desert...they had no homeland then either...their homeland was the deserts occupied by Egypt.

So...I know I won't change your minds...you cannot battle Hate with reason.  I have tried to educate you however as to the truth of this matter...good day!

To deny another man's humanity is to deny your own.

This is the problem with our kind, it is why people kill and hate.

But that's right...you cannot battle hate with reason.

[Corp]

Palestinians still firing rockets, Israelis shooting unarmed protesters near the border...yeah it won't last. But then they never do. The Palestinian and Israeli leadership are far more interested in slaughtering each other than they are about a lasting peace.