170 replies to this topic

[mysticwerewolf]

if there is no punishment there is no crime, punishment requires witnesses so that the message gets out >  If We Catch You You Will Be Punished <.  punishment must instill fear of the punishment to be effective. and just like some other subjects some are not going to care.  but many would if it were a consistant every time no exceptions punishment.
sitting in a jail cell getting medical and dental and  a free gym and a library and internet access and games of golf  and three meals a day is neither just nor a punishment worthy of worrying about.

[Mr Right Wing]

mysticwerewolf, on 05 February 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

if there is no punishment there is no crime, punishment requires witnesses so that the message gets out >  If We Catch You You Will Be Punished <.  punishment must instill fear of the punishment to be effective. and just like some other subjects some are not going to care.  but many would if it were a consistant every time no exceptions punishment.
sitting in a jail cell getting medical and dental and  a free gym and a library and internet access and games of golf  and three meals a day is neither just nor a punishment worthy of worrying about.

Denying them dental treatment would be fun.

Especially if provided with a pair of pliers lol

[glorybebe]

Mr Walker, on 05 February 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

As an atheist, and as a theist, I have always been in favour of capital punishment. Human right to life is,  and always has been, conditional and society sets those conditions. IMO, any person society feels should be locked up for life should rather be executed. I would extend the death penalty to more crimes but also use the money saved to establish rehabilitation and education programmes for criminals who  did not deserve the dealth penalty and who will eventually go back into society.

I differentiate quite clearly between murder, and the taking of an innocent life; and execution after due process, and the taking of a life where the person has chose to harm others.

This is not vengeance but justice, and also what is right, logically.

I would continue, for example, to love a person who had raped or murdered, but still want them executed. They have lost their right to human life by acting in an inhuman way. Mental incompetence where a person was not ABLE to make an informed choice would be  reason not to execute someone, as would  being too young to understand the consequences of one's actions.

Further, where a person demonstrated an inabilty to control their actions, even where that did not lead to a serious crime, I would lock them up until they could (with or without professional help) demonstrate that they could control their lust or anger, greed or envy etc.

Why should a society let any person who demonstrates an inabilty to control themselves, and thus be an ongoing danger to self or others, roam freely?

Exactly!  Where are the law abiding citizens rights to live fear free from monsters that see them as prey or attack them because they can.

[Mr Walker]

Medium Brown, on 05 February 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

I need to clarify my position here because my reasons are totally non- religious.
Who honestly needs the scriptures and the Bible when all is required is a little bit of common sense.

Tbh capital punishment is one the biggest questions when it comes to morals and morality.
I'm just glad I'm here to get the opportunity to answer it.
Here's a little factoid to disgest....
I was the one who initiated this debate in the forum that refuses to be named.
The Chav hating one that you'll never guess the name of even in a million years.
But by that time the trolls had moved on because it was subscription only.

Btw death penalty for any kind of drug peddling and I can't emphasis this better is total overkill.
There's also this ridiculous law where Brits can be done for treachery to the UK.
Whether the coalition have repealed it is anybody's guess.

Could you explain why you are opposed to death sentences for drug peddling, or treason? They are two things I would definitely include in my list of crimes punishable by death. A person who sells certain drugs to another is often no better than a person who sells them a poison or a loaded firearm knowing they are going to use it. Not to mention the huge flow on effect of drug use and sales. Someone in a democracy who betrays their country doesnt deserve to live. They had many other choices. I believ we must get much more accontable in considering peoles actions.

Many things deserve more direct and serious punishments Not jus tin death penalty but across the board. The punishments for many crimes are laughable. "Abuse" of any person unable to protect themselves, such as a child or an elderly person should have higher mandated sentences for example.

[glorybebe]

Mr Walker, on 06 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Could you explain why you are opposed to death sentences for drug peddling, or treason? They are two things I would definitely include in my list of crimes punishable by death. A person who sells certain drugs to another is often no better than a person who sells them a poison or a loaded firearm knowing they are going to use it. Not to mention the huge flow on effect of drug use and sales. Someone in a democracy who betrays their country doesnt deserve to live. They had many other choices. I believ we must get much more accontable in considering peoles actions.

Many things deserve more direct and serious punishments Not jus tin death penalty but across the board. The punishments for many crimes are laughable. "Abuse" of any person unable to protect themselves, such as a child or an elderly person should have higher mandated sentences for example.

I still maintain we need to stop thinking of it as punishment.  It is protection for society from the people who cannot or will not live by the laws of the land.

[Seeker79]

Beckys_Mom, on 04 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

From the article - Lama al-Ghamdi died in October having suffered multiple injuries including a crushed skull, broken ribs and left arm, extensive bruising and burns.
The child had also been repeatedly raped and the burned.

He has reportedly agreed to pay £31,000 ($50,000), which is believed to have gone to Lama's mother.
The amount is half that would have been paid if Lama had been a boy.
Activists say under Islamic laws a father cannot be executed for murdering his children. Husbands can also not be executed for murdering their wives, the group say.

Absolutely disgustingly evil man.. and so are those that created a law like that for men only.. . If I thought he would rather face death than jail, I would then sentence him to 150 years in jail with no chance of seeing the light of day, and feed him nothing but bacon.  Every day he should suffer and a picture of that little girl shown to him over and over... He is a disgusting piece of filth... Any man that does that to his own child is a disgusting piece of scum ..  I do not give a hoot who thinks I am wrong.. This kind of crime is too much..  

Exactly.... Why kill something like that. Why not let him live in misery. If death is the end, he would get a free ride out. I don't think so, he should pay. I'll pay more taxes to know that people like this rot instead of get to forget abut it in death.

Edited by Seeker79, 06 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Beckys_Mom]

Seeker79, on 06 February 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Exactly.... Why kill something like that. Why not let him live in misery. If death is the end, he would get a free ride out. I don't think so, he should pay. I'll pay more taxes to know that people like this rot instead of get to forget abut it in death.

I do support the death penalty for certain crimes...But if I knew someone who tortured. raped and killed small kids would want it more, I would make them live in misery for the rest of their prison days

[G Donnelly]

Mr Walker, on 06 February 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Could you explain why you are opposed to death sentences for drug peddling, or treason? They are two things I would definitely include in my list of crimes punishable by death. A person who sells certain drugs to another is often no better than a person who sells them a poison or a loaded firearm knowing they are going to use it. Not to mention the huge flow on effect of drug use and sales. Someone in a democracy who betrays their country doesnt deserve to live. They had many other choices. I believ we must get much more accontable in considering peoles actions.

The death penalty for treason is some archaic relic from the Cold War.
It's all spy rings,letter drops and clandestine meetings on park benches avoiding eye contact.
That is my immediate impression of it but I can't see what role it'll play today.

However the death penalty for drugs is a trickier one to explain away.
Yes, drug smugglers are peddlars of death and in a way callous.
But you don't have a choice while your getting murdered but you do when you take drugs.
It's a supply and demand market and if you don't demand you won't get supplied.
It's as simple as that,unless the drug smugglers and pimps are forcing the heroin inside the victims veins.
Then it becomes an ideal candidate to put forward for the death penalty.
But my pacifist nature is stopping me from fully dedicating myself to it.

I've already explained the reasons why I'm lukewarm for the death penalty by killing someone in my first post.
Surely you have heard about Colin Stagg and Barry George's plight.

[ranrod]

Paranoid Android, on 04 February 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

As a Christian my view on this is torn between the theoretical and the practical.  In theory, I agree with the concept of a Death Penalty.  In some cases this is warranted.

As Jesus said, "But I tell you: love thy enemy...unless he really has it coming.  In that case, torch the sob!" - Matthew 5:44

[Paranoid Android]

ranrod, on 07 February 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

As Jesus said, "But I tell you: love thy enemy...unless he really has it coming.  In that case, torch the sob!" - Matthew 5:44

Legal proceedings are not personal relationships.  Loving my enemy does not mean that they should not be imprisoned or subjected to applicable laws for whatever wrongdoing they commit.  If someone murders my brother, I'm not going to "turn the other cheek" and let him murder my mother as well, instead I would ensure that I got my mother away safely and the authorities can deal with said murderer as the law dictates.

But with that said, if you had read the rest of my post (which you did not quote) you will note that I say in "theory" I agree with the concept of a death penalty, but in practice I cannot condone it!

[ranrod]

Paranoid Android, on 07 February 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Legal proceedings are not personal relationships.  Loving my enemy does not mean that they should not be imprisoned or subjected to applicable laws for whatever wrongdoing they commit.  If someone murders my brother, I'm not going to "turn the other cheek" and let him murder my mother as well, instead I would ensure that I got my mother away safely and the authorities can deal with said murderer as the law dictates.

But with that said, if you had read the rest of my post (which you did not quote) you will note that I say in "theory" I agree with the concept of a death penalty, but in practice I cannot condone it!

Isn't "thinking" (you agree with it in theory) as bad as acting on it in Christianity? ...It's the thought that counts!
Jesus: "I see you thought killing people during your life was a good way to solve problems"
PA: "Yes, but those people were bad"
Jesus: "hmm...."

[libstaK]

and then, on 04 February 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Life imprisonment is fine with me, even for capital crimes IF there is a guarantee that the sentence cannot be overturned later.  Having said that, I would also give such a criminal the option of a death sentence at any point during their incarceration.  Their choice.  This would be a merciful option for me if I were the one living out the rest of my days in what would be little more than a cage.   Some people deserve to die for their crimes according to the OT but since most of the ideas of crime and punishment from that era have changed, I think the idea of death for crime is up for review as well.  What I would NOT be okay with is ever letting anyone who takes a life in a premeditated fashion out of prison, ever.

Totally agree, give the life serving crim the option, some would take death I think.  As to my own views, I am against, just one innocent put to death is one too many.  We have already had 100's too many and there are parts of the world where death is a summary punishment dished up for ridiculously minor offences or things that should not even warrant being offences.

[Paranoid Android]

ranrod, on 07 February 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Isn't "thinking" (you agree with it in theory) as bad as acting on it in Christianity? ...It's the thought that counts!
Jesus: "I see you thought killing people during your life was a good way to solve problems"
PA: "Yes, but those people were bad"
Jesus: "hmm...."

But I can't guarantee they are guilty, so no, I have never thought killing people was a good way to solve problems.

That said, you still aren't distinguishing between personal relationships and legal proceedings.

Please do not place words in my mouth!

[highdesert50]

If we are to evolve to the next level as a civilization, I believe we must embrace the concept of unconditional love in the sense of altruism which, in turn, might argue for the abolishment of the death penalty. Rather, we recognize these people as extreme statistical outliers due to physical, psychological, or other aberrant reasons we have yet to fully understand. In effect, we treat these outliers as very sick people who may be incurable at this time and need to be controlled but not necessarily exterminated.

[praetorian-legio XIII]

pallidin, on 05 February 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

BM, I think you're misuderstanding my position.

I am against Capital punishment by any country.
But if I come up against someone brutally rapping my daughter, and if to stop it requires lethal force, yes, I will do it.

I see absolutely no contradiction there, because they are wholly different circumstances.

To BM this is the post I was referring to