Call for Europe-Wide Swastika Ban

[Guest Lottie]

German politicians have called for Nazi symbols to be banned throughout Europe after Prince Harry was pictured wearing a swastika to a fancy dress party.

The Liberal group in the European Parliament says all of Europe suffered because of the crimes of the Nazis, so there should be a continent-wide ban.

A senior Christian Democrat said the proposal may be discussed at the next meeting of European justice ministers.

The symbols are already banned under German law.

The photograph of Harry in a costume with a Nazi swastika armband was taken at a friend's birthday party in Wiltshire last weekend.

Vice-president of the Christian Democratic parliamentary group Wolfgang Bosback said the outfit "really lacked taste".

It is time for the press to back off

The Duchess of York

Hear the interview

'Harry should know my story'

He said it was possible European justice ministers would discuss bringing in a European prohibition on displaying the swastika and other Nazi signs.

Liberal group vice-president Silvana Koch-Merin said: "All of Europe has suffered in the past because of the crimes of the Nazis, therefore it would be logical for Nazi symbols to be banned all over Europe."

She also called for the question to be placed on the agenda at the next meeting of justice ministers.

The vice-president of the parliamentary Social Democratic group, Michael Mueller, said a study was needed to find out how a German-style anti-Nazi law could be applied to the rest of Europe.

Apologising in a statement on Wednesday, the prince said: "I am very sorry if I caused any offence or embarrassment to anyone. It was a poor choice of costume and I apologise."

THE HOLOCAUST

The Nazis' final assault on the Jews from 1933-1945

Estimated 15m civilians killed by regime

6m Jews murdered

1942: Gas chambers built at Birkenau concentration camp, mass transports begin

Majority who arrive gassed immediately

About 900,000 gassed at Birkenau

1.1m died at Auschwitz-Birkenau and its sub-camps

1m of them were Jewish

Straw to visit Auschwitz

On Friday, Prince Harry received the public backing of his aunt, Sarah Ferguson.

The Duchess of York told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Harry is a fine young man. He needs to be supported now.

"It is time for the press to back off."

The leader of the UK Conservative Party, Michael Howard, and the Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy have led calls for a personal public apology, and the Prince has also been criticised by foreign politicians.

Veteran forces sweetheart Vera Lynn has added her voice to calls for him to visit a former death camp.

Some critics have said the prince should join a British delegation which is visiting the Auschwitz death camp for the 60th anniversary of its liberation later this month.

The UK's Ministry of Defence has said the incident will not affect Prince Harry's place at Sandhurst military academy.

It is the latest in a series of stories involving Prince Harry - who is third in line to the British throne - which have earned him a media reputation as the "party prince".

source: bbc news

[Novo]

Awwww!!!! Now how am I supposed to know who to shoot?

Edited January 16, 2005 by Novo

[Erikl]

FINALLY! 60 years a bit too late, but better late than never!

[Mad Manfred]

Agreed. It should have been banned years ago.

[wunarmdscissor]

ACTUALLY ur all deluded ****s lol...

nah ill tell u what i mean.

The swastika predates naziism.

We cant ban it , thats ridiculous.

For the sikh religion the swastika is a sign of peace.

[Erikl]

Wun, I happen to know the swastika predates Nazism, but the fact is that in Europe it became a symbol of Nazism, plane and simple, and will stay that way for many years.

[The Caspian Hare]

So because of the deeds of the Nazis, other groups to whom the swastika is an entirely benign symbol should be prevented from using it?

[wunarmdscissor]

Wun, I happen to know the swastika predates Nazism, but the fact is that in Europe it became a symbol of Nazism, plane and simple, and will stay that way for many years.

Bad things have been committed in the name of anythin .

We cant ban symbols that mean something dfifferent to another culture , sikhs live in europe too.

I understand where ur comin from though believe me i do.

I hate the red hand of ulster becuse of what i represents but it existed before paramilitary organisations hijacked it.....

[Athenian]

The swastika is one of the most common, famous, and oldest symbols in human history! How could they possibly ban it?! It has been used from Native Americans to Samurai clans! I can not think of one culture, race, or religion that has not used it!

Edited January 16, 2005 by Athenian

[Erikl]

well, I think they should allow it only for certain religious groups, because they too do not use it in the same way the Nazis do. Meaning - they'll have to get a pass to use it.

But those sikhs should realise when they come to different culture, what is appropriate, and what's not.

And the swastika shouldn't represent evil only for me and my ppl - Hitler threatened all of Europe, and comitted crimes against the Poles, for example, and other eastern Europeans, the very same place where neo-Nazism is most common today.

[The Caspian Hare]

Does anyone think that maybe even groups as repulsive as the neo-Nazis have a right to express themselves? And from a practical point of view, the best way to deal with people like this is to give them a legal avenue of expression. If you start cracking down on them in this way you could force them underground, give them a persecution complex and maybe drive them to more extreme measures.

[Stellar]

After they ban it, I wonder what they'd do if someone goes around with the mirrored (original) version of the swastika...

[Guest Lottie]

The swastika is one of the most common, famous, and oldest symbols in human history! How could they possibly ban it?! It has been used from Native Americans to Samurai clans! I can not think of one culture, race, or religion that has not used it!

I understand that it is one of the oldest symbols in history but unfortunately it has become in our time now infamous throughout the world as a symbol of evil, hatred, racism and murder- Nazism. Therefore I am glad that it is being banned.

Does anyone think that maybe even groups as repulsive as the neo-Nazis have a right to express themselves?

No. I am all for freedom of speech but people like this are nothing more than scum and by allowing them to express themselves through the use of a symbol that incorporates everything that was evil under Hitlers reign is just wrong. Not just that but it is completely disrespectful to cultures that use it as a symbol of peace.

If you start cracking down on them in this way you could force them underground, give them a persecution complex and maybe drive them to more extreme measures.

Most of these pathetic groups are underground anyway, I doubt it would give them a persecution complex because we are talking about people who really could not careless about how others view them.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Lottie

[Stellar]

No. I am all for freedom of speech but people like this are nothing more than scum and by allowing them to express themselves through the use of a symbol that incorporates everything that was evil under Hitlers reign is just wrong. Not just that but it is completely disrespectful to cultures that use it as a symbol of peace.

Its ironic actually... you're sounding like Hitler now, do you realise that?

[wunarmdscissor]

No. I am all for freedom of speech but people like this are nothing more than scum and by allowing them to express themselves through the use of a symbol that incorporates everything that was evil under Hitlers reign is just wrong. Not just that but it is completely disrespectful to cultures that use it as a symbol of peace

free speech is free speech.

If its within the constraints they must be allowed their say, as wrong as what theyre saying may be.

[Guest Lottie]

Stellar I am talking about Nazi scum who use this symbol not the people who use it for peace. Having had family who suffered at the hands of that b****** (hitler) you have just insulted me.

[The Caspian Hare]

I believe people have a right to express their opinions, no matter how warped or evil they are. On the other hand, I don't believe there's a fundamental human right not to be offended.

[Guest Lottie]

free speech is free speech.

If its within the constraints they must be allowed their say, as wrong as what theyre saying may be.

I agree. However there are no constraints for these people. Instead they are allowed to mouth off whatever they please. Redneck is probably right, there needs to be some kind of legal avenue that allows them to say what they have to say.

[Stellar]

Stellar I am talking about Nazi scum who use this symbol not the people who use it for peace. Having had family who suffered at the hands of that b****** (hitler) you have just insulted me.

Hitler thought the same, you know.

I agree. However there are no constraints for these people. Instead they are allowed to mouth off whatever they please. Redneck is probably right, there needs to be some kind of legal avenue that allows them to say what they have to say.

Im sorry, but I havent heard a lot of mouthing off my the Nazis recently at all. They have their beliefs, however wrong I may think they are, but they're their beliefs.

[Guest Lottie]

Stellar I am talking about Nazi scum who use this symbol not the people who use it for peace. Having had family who suffered at the hands of that b****** (hitler) you have just insulted me.

Hitler thought the same, you know.

No there is a difference in thought here.

These thugs have deliberately created a persona around the swastika incorporating everything that is bad. They use this as an excuse to spread racism.

The thousands of Jews, Gypsies and everyone else who wasn't deemed as Germanic did not deliberately create these persona's they were born the way they were.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Lottie

[Stellar]

No there is a difference in thought here.

These thugs have deliberately created a persona around the swastika incorporating everything that is bad. They use this as an excuse to spread racism.

The thousands of Jews, Gypsies and everyone else who wasn't deemed as Germanic did not deliberately create these persona's they were born the way they were.

They thought the same of the Jews. THey thought the jews, and to a lesser extent, foreigners, were scheming to take over germany and oppress the german people.

[Guest Lottie]

No there is a difference in thought here.

These thugs have deliberately created a persona around the swastika incorporating everything that is bad. They use this as an excuse to spread racism.

The thousands of Jews, Gypsies and everyone else who wasn't deemed as Germanic did not deliberately create these persona's they were born the way they were.

They thought the same of the Jews. THey thought the jews, and to a lesser extent, foreigners, were scheming to take over germany and oppress the german people.

452098[/snapback]

Completely different. I do not think these ****s are racists its obvious they are, they are scheming to create racism. Everyone knows this. You can see it and hear them at rallies, through websites and in media tat.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Lottie

[Stellar]

Completely different. I do not think these ****s are racists its obvious they are, they are scheming to create racism.

They thought the same of the jews.

Everyone knows this. You can see it and hear them at rallies, through websites and in media tat.

I know. You can see something similar even in the US, in great numbers: The people saying we should nuke the middle east, the ones who discriminate against homosexuals... whatever. I may think its wrong, but I'm not gonna say they dont have the right to have their beliefs and speak of them if they want.

[Erikl]

No, people, I'm afraid you give way too much credit for freedom of speech.

Wun, would you give a child molestar the freedom of move? ofcouse not, he should be behind bars.

But then again, the freedom to travel and move is even more basic and more universall than the freedom of speech.

The Nazis lost their freedom of speech 60 years ago, because of their actions.

You can look at banning their freedom of speech as a suitable equivalent of banning the freedom of travel for criminals, cause that's what there are - criminals.

And for Stellar - either u are a complete ignorant in WW2 history, or u have no idea what Nazism is.

Hating Nazism isn't the same as being a nazi, u know.

The Nazis hated Jews and other ppl for their blood, and with no reason whatsoever.

You could be a strict christian, but because ur grandpa was Jewish, u would have been killed.

You could be a general in the German army, but because you are Jewish, you would have been gassed to death and ur body burned to ashes.

No reason whatsoever other than hatred.

The Jews were loyal citizens. They were very patriotic in Germany and other countries in Europe. They didn't harm the German ppl - as a matter of fact, they pretty much assimilated into the German society.

Talking about consceince? well, nazis though conscience and good will in general are for the weak. Being "evil", raough, and brutal, is the "right" way to go, according to them, cause we are all animals, and the "better" one need to feed on the weak and ill.

That is the nazi theory. Pure evil, mock to morality, love for brutality, hatred for anything good and enlightened. And I'm not saying this subjectively - I'm saying this as a person who leaned much about them.

[Guest Lottie]

I am fully aware of what they thought of the Jews, its a small part of my personal history.

Completely different. I do not think these ****s are racists its obvious they are, they are scheming to create racism.

They thought the same of the jews.

They thought the same of the Jews BUT there was NEVER any evidence to suggest such a thing and it was never the case anyway. Hitler was completely paranoid, picking on people because of the race, religion and background they were born into.

There is plenty of firm hard evidence of what these neo-nazi's are doing.