14 replies to this topic

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RAPID CITY, S.D. — Futurists have long proclaimed the coming of a cashless society, where dollar bills and plastic cards are replaced by fingerprint and retina scanners smart enough to distinguish a living, breathing account holder from an identity thief.
What they probably didn't see coming was that one such technology would make its debut not in Silicon Valley or MIT but at a small state college in remote western South Dakota, 25 miles from Mount Rushmore.

http://www.huffingto...ef=arts&ir=arts

[Colonel Rhuairidh]

With virtually every story that comes up these days, I think that George Orwell would be laughing his socks off. What i love most of all is the completely unquestioning enthusiasm from the techno-fantasists about all this stuff. "isn 't it incredible! We can take a record of the fingerprints of every single person who ever purchases everything! We can not only track everything that they buy and everywhere they go, we can do that with Credit cards of course, but now we can collect a database of the fingerprints of everyone! Isn't technology just awesome?!"
And what exactly is so awesome about this dream of a Cashless society that the Futurists have so long dreamed about? It's just tying people into the world of Credit, of making them slaves to the financial system. Or perhaps that's why the Futurists, who do often seem to be of an authoritarian bent, are so enthusiastic about the idea.

Edited by Lord Vetinari, 26 February 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Frank Merton]

In a cashless society, where there is an electronic record of every transaction that computers can scan and compile statistics and individual profiles from, law enforcement, and especially tax enforcement, becomes automatic.

Societies that have this sort of thing and then want to regulate details of our lives (such as religious fundamentalists or political extremists who happen to get control) are now in a position to rule forever without challenge.

[freetoroam]

Do not let the criminals see this, can you imagine the amount of people with missing fingers there will be?

Not exactly the same as changing your pin number and just getting a new card if it gets stolen!

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freetoroam, on 26 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Do not let the criminals see this, can you imagine the amount of people with missing fingers there will be?

Not exactly the same as changing your pin number and just getting a new card if it gets stolen!

I posted just a small abstract from the article so it can't be that hard to actually read it before posting, right?
Let me repeat:

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fingerprint and retina scanners smart enough to distinguish a living, breathing account holder from an identity thief.

and to elaborate, if it's not too many words:

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Faking Fingerprints

The answer to the question if someone’s finger could be cut off by criminals and presented to the biometric sensor in order to trick the system into identification acceptance to commit a theft or gain unauthorized access somewhat depends on the model-specific presence or absence of sensors’ additional levels of security for fake prevention—such as blood flow and pulse measurement for example. So, in theory, cutting someone’s finger may work with simple sensors, but chances of success are small in any case.

http://www.brighthub...les/103269.aspx

Edited by Render, 26 February 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[freetoroam]

Fingerprint technology isn't new, nor is the general concept of using biometrics as a way to pay for goods. But it's the extra layer of protection – that deeper check to ensure the finger has a pulse –
So, in theory, cutting someone’s finger may work with simple sensors, but chances of success are small in any case.


Not all criminals are drugged up desperates with out a brain!!
When the credit card was invented, they did not bank on the criminal brains, if they had we would not have so much credit card fraud...its is getting tighter now for the criminal, but it still happens.
DO NOT underestimate the criminal minds, thats what they do to new things like this all the time!!!

So as for the bold bit,"chances of success are small", the same thing would have been said for the cheque book, the credit card, itendity theft and  the internet, data protection etc etc etc. It happens and i would much rather have my credit card cloned than have my finger chopped of.


So as for:

I posted just a small abstract from the article so it can't be that hard to actually read it before posting, right?

I did, so it can`t be hard to actually look beyond the fact that they want it to happen they WILL say itis relatively safe.

When the world is rid of the criminal brains, then its a great idea, but we have a long way to go yet.

[paperdyer]

Since the sensors need blood flow, will these sensors be sophisticated enough to know if the fingerprint it's reading is real skin or not.  I can see the rush to develop "stick-on" fingerprints as used in may spy shows and movies

[Skeptic Chicken]

and what if you happened to burn or cut your finger?

[ExpandMyMind]

Skeptic Chicken, on 26 February 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

and what if you happened to burn or cut your finger?

Don't worry, a few years down the line and they'll be wanting to use our DNA instead.

[Chooky88]

Cool. Like Old Biff in Back to the Future paying for the taxi

[The Silver Thong]

I remember reading a story were a guy payed a bill with a cow and a chicken. Today I can`t write a cheque lol.  Times are messed and the only ones to blaim are the banks. They have always had control and always will.  They have had complete control since there conception.

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freetoroam, on 26 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Fingerprint technology isn't new, nor is the general concept of using biometrics as a way to pay for goods. But it's the extra layer of protection – that deeper check to ensure the finger has a pulse –
So, in theory, cutting someone’s finger may work with simple sensors, but chances of success are small in any case.


Not all criminals are drugged up desperates with out a brain!!
When the credit card was invented, they did not bank on the criminal brains, if they had we would not have so much credit card fraud...its is getting tighter now for the criminal, but it still happens.

So as for the bold bit,"chances of success are small", the same thing would have been said for the cheque book, the credit card, itendity theft and  the internet, data protection etc etc etc. It happens and i would much rather have my credit card cloned than have my finger chopped of.

I don't understand your analogy. "chances of success are small, same thing can be said for credit card" etc ... does not compare to chances are small a chopped off finger works.
If you intercept the credit card chances of success are extremely high. If you manage to get yourself a finger, chances of succes are small.  .. See? No comparison there.

Security in IT is based on the principle of easiest penetration, meaning it's the job of certain ppl to think in terms of a criminal. The reason why there has been so much credit card fraud and alike, is not because the criminal brain has been underestimated. It's because many ppl just don't understand technology and understand how far reaching the implications of implementing a system can be. Because of this they'd rather save money on IT security, because they don't understand the dynamics of it all.

[Junior Chubb]

My daughter has been paying at her school canteen using this method for a while now. They can also uses a palm scan to enter some buildings, and this is an average East London Comprehensive School.

Not much need for the extra layer of security though, not too much finger removal going on there........    yet. ;)

Edited by Junior Chubb, 26 February 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[csauer52]

Ummmmm, so how would this get around a criminal simply holding you at gunpoint?  Solves nothing.....  It is cool though.

[Frank Merton]

I think it will be efficient and reduce lines a little at check-out.  It may also save the merchants some expenses in counting and shipping money and in turning in checks and so on, and thereby reduce prices a little.

I also think it scares me.  No cash transactions.  Aren't there a few things you buy here and there that you would rather not appear on your bank statement or tax records or maybe even on your local constable's morning report?

Let's say you never buy anything even embarrassing.  Still, all the merchants know when you walk in the door what your buying habits are, how much spending money you have, and so on.  With electronic pricing, I can even see discriminatory pricing systems appearing.