Children's codeine deaths prompt warning

[glorybebe]

Two more children's deaths and a near fatality have been linked to standard doses of codeine after tonsil surgery, leading researchers to suggest reconsidering the painkiller's use.

"Codeine is perceived as a safe narcotic by the Canadian and American population … that may have to change," said Dr. Gidoen Koren, a molecular toxicologist at the University of Western Ontario's School of Medicine and Dentistry, who co-authored a new study describing the cases.....

.....In 2010, the Canadian Medical Association Journal suggested phasing out the use of codeine, due to the fact that some people metabolize it faster than others, resulting in potentially fatal levels of morphine in their blood.

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Why would anyone give a little kid codeine? There is no way that I would give to my daughter. We are way too dependant on pain killers and other medicines.

[+and-then]

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Why would anyone give a little kid codeine? There is no way that I would give to my daughter. We are way too dependant on pain killers and other medicines.

Codeine is a safe and effective pain killer that has been around a long time. The primary problem with it is the high incidence of allergic reactions. Usually mild but annoying and sometimes life threatening. Synthetic codeine called hydrocodone is the preferred replacement.

I wouldn't hesitate to give hydrocodone to a child. In the correct dose and with proper supervision.

[Simbi Laveau]

Ive never even heard of a child dying from codeine before.

I have a bad response to it myself,so I would never give it to a child.

These sound like a cluster ?

Or unusual idiosyncratic responses.

But why all of a sudden. ?

Unless giving codeine to kids is new.

I mean I don't know enough to comment fully.

In nyc,although I'm not sure abt dentists,but motrin is usually what's given to kids for pain.

[glorybebe]

Ive never even heard of a child dying from codeine before.

I have a bad response to it myself,so I would never give it to a child.

These sound like a cluster ?

Or unusual idiosyncratic responses.

But why all of a sudden. ?

Unless giving codeine to kids is new.

I mean I don't know enough to comment fully.

In nyc,although I'm not sure abt dentists,but motrin is usually what's given to kids for pain.

Yeah, I haven't given my daughter codeine. I have a more natural approach to healing.

[Simbi Laveau]

Yeah, I haven't given my daughter codeine. I have a more natural approach to healing.

The best way to go. All this drug taking for every little ,is just not healthy.

[FurthurBB]

The best way to go. All this drug taking for every little ,is just not healthy.

yes, because tonsillectomies are such a little thing. They should really just suck it up.

[Simbi Laveau]

yes, because tonsillectomies are such a little thing. They should really just suck it up.

Ummmm,absolutely no one here said anything about denying children pain killers.We just don't think codeine is a great idea for kids.Given the OP is about kids dying from it,might support that.

As for tonsillectomies,people have managed to survive them since the 1950s,with just eating ice cream,as that was the pain killer of choice thru into the 1970s,I dare say people did just fine with no pain killers for decades.

Painkillers are not recommened for kids because if can delay healing time,in tonsillectomies specifically.

Adults ,I think they get some sort of liquid pain killer.

In the USA,people pop pills repeatedly during the day,for every little thing.There is a reason why prescription drug addiction is now a major issue.

Complications from tylenol abuse alone ,has risen dramatically in the last ten years,because people will take one every 4 hours,extra strength,for some lame reason like they have a little boo boo.

There's a reason I am the only one of my friends not on a thyroid and hypertension medication .

I haven't abused every idiotic thing put on the market ,for insignificant reasons,for 20 years.

And I'm the one with all the injuries from working on an ambulance,and doing martial arts,for over 20 years.

I have injuries that would impress Jackie Chan.

I still don't take pain killers when it hurts.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[glorybebe]

Ummmm,absolutely no one here said anything about denying children pain killers.We just don't think codeine is a great idea for kids.Given the OP is about kids dying from it,might support that.

As for tonsillectomies,people have managed to survive them since the 1950s,with just eating ice cream,as that was the pain killer of choice thru into the 1970s,I dare say people did just fine with no pain killers for decades.

Painkillers are not recommened for kids because if can delay healing time,in tonsillectomies specifically.

Adults ,I think they get some sort of liquid pain killer.

In the USA,people pop pills repeatedly during the day,for every little thing.There is a reason why prescription drug addiction is now a major issue.

Complications from tylenol abuse alone ,has risen dramatically in the last ten years,because people will take one every 4 hours,extra strength,for some lame reason like they have a little boo boo.

There's a reason I am the only one of my friends not on a thyroid and hypertension medication .

I haven't abused every idiotic thing put on the market ,for insignificant reasons,for 20 years.

And I'm the one with all the injuries from working on an ambulance,and doing martial arts,for over 20 years.

I have injuries that would impress Jackie Chan.

I still don't take pain killers when it hurts.

My daughter actually hates taking any form of painkiller, and has to be REALLY sick before she will take medicine. I have migraines, so I take Tylenol or Advill, but I refuse the prescriptions that treat migraines as they are really heavy duty drugs. If my daughter had to have her tonsils out, I know that she would not take the pain killers.

[Simbi Laveau]

My daughter actually hates taking any form of painkiller, and has to be REALLY sick before she will take medicine. I have migraines, so I take Tylenol or Advill, but I refuse the prescriptions that treat migraines as they are really heavy duty drugs. If my daughter had to have her tonsils out, I know that she would not take the pain killers.

I am like your daughter.

If your migraines are frequent,you should try acupuncture.

You have to start before the headache starts.

Prophylactic acupuncture,can totally irradicate regular migraines(asthma too)

Edited April 10, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[glorybebe]

I am like your daughter.

If your migraines are frequent,you should try acupuncture.

You have to start before the headache starts.

Prophylactic acupuncture,can totally irradicate regular migraines(asthma too)

If I had the money I would love to try it. I try peppermint on the temples and try to relax (easier said than done).

[FurthurBB]

Ummmm,absolutely no one here said anything about denying children pain killers.We just don't think codeine is a great idea for kids.Given the OP is about kids dying from it,might support that.

As for tonsillectomies,people have managed to survive them since the 1950s,with just eating ice cream,as that was the pain killer of choice thru into the 1970s,I dare say people did just fine with no pain killers for decades.

Painkillers are not recommened for kids because if can delay healing time,in tonsillectomies specifically.

Adults ,I think they get some sort of liquid pain killer.

In the USA,people pop pills repeatedly during the day,for every little thing.There is a reason why prescription drug addiction is now a major issue.

Complications from tylenol abuse alone ,has risen dramatically in the last ten years,because people will take one every 4 hours,extra strength,for some lame reason like they have a little boo boo.

There's a reason I am the only one of my friends not on a thyroid and hypertension medication .

I haven't abused every idiotic thing put on the market ,for insignificant reasons,for 20 years.

And I'm the one with all the injuries from working on an ambulance,and doing martial arts,for over 20 years.

I have injuries that would impress Jackie Chan.

I still don't take pain killers when it hurts.

Morphine has been used postoperatively for pediatric tonsillectomies since 1932 and codeine was used since the 50s. It is more painful in children and at no time was ice cream eating for pain, it was for swelling. Wow! All that medical knowledge you have is so amazing.

Edited April 11, 2012 by FurthurBB

[Rhincewind]

codine used to be in my old migrane meds. I hated it because It would constipate me for at least a week and need very powerful laxatives to shift it. Now I take ibuprofine for any pain ( like the cold I have at the moment) The brupfen also (so far) has prevented any migraines on the day I take it

[RamonaLisa]

Ummmm,absolutely no one here said anything about denying children pain killers.We just don't think codeine is a great idea for kids.Given the OP is about kids dying from it,might support that.

As for tonsillectomies,people have managed to survive them since the 1950s,with just eating ice cream,as that was the pain killer of choice thru into the 1970s,I dare say people did just fine with no pain killers for decades.

Painkillers are not recommened for kids because if can delay healing time,in tonsillectomies specifically.

Adults ,I think they get some sort of liquid pain killer.

In the USA,people pop pills repeatedly during the day,for every little thing.There is a reason why prescription drug addiction is now a major issue.

Complications from tylenol abuse alone ,has risen dramatically in the last ten years,because people will take one every 4 hours,extra strength,for some lame reason like they have a little boo boo.

There's a reason I am the only one of my friends not on a thyroid and hypertension medication .

I haven't abused every idiotic thing put on the market ,for insignificant reasons,for 20 years.

And I'm the one with all the injuries from working on an ambulance,and doing martial arts,for over 20 years.

I have injuries that would impress Jackie Chan.

I still don't take pain killers when it hurts.

Exactly, that's why I try and take as little medicine as possible, I can power through a headache or allergies, no problem. The dangers associated with mixing prescription drugs with other over the counter drugs, aren't totally understood and people take liberties with their health because of it. A guy I went to high school with died after mixing alcohol with your basic over the counter medicine - just passed away in his sleep. This is serious stuff we're talking about.

Edited April 13, 2012 by RamonaLisa

[glorybebe]

Exactly, that's why I try and take as little medicine as possible, I can power through a headache or allergies, no problem. The dangers associated with mixing prescription drugs with other over the counter drugs, aren't totally understood and people take liberties with their health because of it. A guy I went to high school with died after mixing alcohol with your basic over the counter medicine - just passed away in his sleep. This is serious stuff we're talking about.

In biology, my teacher told us to never take Tylenol, Advil or aspirin (or the generic brands) within a 48 hour window of drinking. She said just once could kill your liver and it's all over. But, the first thing that most people do is get up and take a pain reliever after drinking. We are weakening our systems-after taking painkillers for so many years, we build up a tolerance to them and need to take more to get the same relief, then it can be just a matter of time when our body can't process all the drug in it and we kill our liver or our kidneys. So, why endanger our children if we don't have to? Yes, it is painful, but, maybe we are getting too wimpy and need to toughen up a little.

[Simbi Laveau]

Morphine has been used postoperatively for pediatric tonsillectomies since 1932 and codeine was used since the 50s. It is more painful in children and at no time was ice cream eating for pain, it was for swelling. Wow! All that medical knowledge you have is so amazing.

I never said it wasn't used,but they do not LIKE to use it in tonsillectomies because of various complications.My mother herself,who was born in 1924,told me when she had her tonsils out,they gave her ice cream for the pain.

My EXACT STATEMENT ,was: painkiller of choice.

That means its the most popular.

Cold,soft,wet foods,are used to help with the pain,and feed the patient,as eating anything else,HURTS.

duh....

Growing up in the frigging 70s,all my friends that had tonsilectomies ,told me the best part,was endless ice cream,guilt free,no parental permission needed.

Spare me your condesending attitude.

The fact you actually cite 1932,just proves you had to google it.

Lolz

Edited April 14, 2012 by Simbi Laveau

[Simbi Laveau]

If I had the money I would love to try it. I try peppermint on the temples and try to relax (easier said than done).

See if your insurance covers it.

In the USA,some ins cos accept it ,and cover something like 10-20 treatments a year.

In the USA ,we can only treat for pain ,specifically,in our diagnosis codes.

So ,see if you can check into it.

I think you're in Canada ? I actually know nothing about alternative medicine popularity,or how it works up there.

[Simbi Laveau]

In biology, my teacher told us to never take Tylenol, Advil or aspirin (or the generic brands) within a 48 hour window of drinking. She said just once could kill your liver and it's all over. But, the first thing that most people do is get up and take a pain reliever after drinking. We are weakening our systems-after taking painkillers for so many years, we build up a tolerance to them and need to take more to get the same relief, then it can be just a matter of time when our body can't process all the drug in it and we kill our liver or our kidneys. So, why endanger our children if we don't have to? Yes, it is painful, but, maybe we are getting too wimpy and need to toughen up a little.

No drug,mixed with alcohol,is a good idea.

Tylenol specifically,is metabolized thru our liver,which is also exactly where alcohol is metabolized.

Tylenol overuse ,has been connected to liver disease.

Advil is mostly Ibuprofen ,which is what Motrin is,in high doses.

I will take Motrin and aspirin,for certain things,but it's rare.

I once had a patient ,that took aspirin, every morning,for her pain,with orange juice.

Motrin and aspirin are both caustic to the stomach,in high doses.

Mixing it with an acidic juice,is so bad.....

This woman had done this for months,and when we walked in,she was just vomiting up pure blood,tons of it.

Some was partially digested,but it was a rapid active bleed.

Always err on the side of caution with any medication.Even over the counter stuff,can be dangerous.

[FurthurBB]

I never said it wasn't used,but they do not LIKE to use it in tonsillectomies because of various complications.My mother herself,who was born in 1924,told me when she had her tonsils out,they gave her ice cream for the pain.

My EXACT STATEMENT ,was: painkiller of choice.

That means its the most popular.

Cold,soft,wet foods,are used to help with the pain,and feed the patient,as eating anything else,HURTS.

duh....

Growing up in the frigging 70s,all my friends that had tonsilectomies ,told me the best part,was endless ice cream,guilt free,no parental permission needed.

Spare me your condesending attitude.

The fact you actually cite 1932,just proves you had to google it.

Lolz

You cannot even successfully do that.

[JayMark]

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Why would anyone give a little kid codeine? There is no way that I would give to my daughter. We are way too dependant on pain killers and other medicines.

I have been given codeine as a kid. Nothing bad hppened. I had a pneumonia which gave me very bad cough fits. Codeine is a more efficient antitussive than OTC dextromethorphan hydrobrimide.

As a matter of fact, I have a friend of mine who suffered a bad allergic reaction to dextromethorphan (or maby enzyme defficiency). He did not die from it being a healthy adult but he felt really bad, sick and intoxicated.

Point is everyone is diffrent and despite all our precautions, accidents like that do happen. Meds are drugs and even giving therapeutical doses can be risky.

Anyways, sad story. Nobody wants that to happen to their kids but nobody wants to see them suffer at the same time.

[FurthurBB]

I have been given codeine as a kid. Nothing bad hppened. I had a pneumonia which gave me very bad cough fits. Codeine is a more efficient antitussive than OTC dextromethorphan hydrobrimide.

As a matter of fact, I have a friend of mine who suffered a bad allergic reaction to dextromethorphan (or maby enzyme defficiency). He did not die from it being a healthy adult but he felt really bad, sick and intoxicated.

Point is everyone is diffrent and despite all our precautions, accidents like that do happen. Meds are drugs and even giving therapeutical doses can be risky.

Anyways, sad story. Nobody wants that to happen to their kids but nobody wants to see them suffer at the same time.

The problem seems to be a greater abundance in a particular polymorphism for a gene that causes opioids to be metabolized faster among certain heritages in Canada and the US. This seems to be a particular problem when prescribing codeine, a typically safe drug, to children. A rapid screening for the allele may become necessary.