Origin of Sekhmet is Löwenfrau- 40 000 y.o.?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hello dear UMers!

What do you think what is origin of egyptian goddess Sekhmet? Could it be that its Löwenfrau (Lion man of the Hohlenstein Stadel).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_man_of_the_Hohlenstein_Stadel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Did Sekhmet evolve from Egyptian God Aker?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aker_(god)

Its interesting that we have many Lion goddess/gods.

This is Hindu. Narasimha

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Maybe it represents ancient zodiac sign Leo.

Maybe Sphinx was Sekhmet once?

Edited February 17, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Criticism welcome.

Edited February 17, 2013 by the L

[Grandpa Greenman]

Big powerful animals are common motifs in many societies that doesn't mean they are related. Case in point the Key Marco Cat was made by Calusas Indians in Florida.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KeyMarcoCat.jpg

[Gunn]

Maybe it represents ancient zodiac sign Leo.

Maybe Sphinx was Sekhmet once?

You mean you think it may have once had the head of a lion before and the lionhead was recarved sometime later into a human head? *waves hand*...Naaaaaaaaaw! No use thinking that, L. Wait about 50 years after a generation is gone and archaeological mistakes have been corrected, then maybe it won't be speculation. As of now, that's pure speculation, L.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Purifier

[jaylemurph]

This is a Dalek, noted agent of destruction and extermination from the planet Skaro.

This is a pepper pot, used to hold priceless, powdered, dried berries of the Indies used as a spice since before medieval times.

They looking passingly similar, so I think the design of pepper pots can be traced back directly to a cult of Dalek-worshipping proto-Egyptians. In fact, Egypt starts with E, the same letter as Exterminate, which Daleks not infrequently say. They also both have "T"s in them, which surely indicates close linguistic ties.

In fact, in the image here, we can see historical footage of ancient Egyptians worshipping Daleks. (I understand it was found in the pyramid of Sutekh, brother of Horus.)

I therefore conclude pepper was worshipped by Egyptians after the departure of the Daleks. I invite your criticism/questions.

--Jaylemurph

[Ladystardonna]

Pyramids are found around the world. Dragon myths are found around the world. Ancient history is still being discovered, and still a mystery. Perhaps the civilization we have in our history books is just the latest in many eras of civilization that mankind has experienced. Where was Atlantis? Modern education has formed our concept of reality. There could be another hidden reality. The time has come to open our minds (again).

[jaylemurph]

Pyramids are found around the world. Dragon myths are found around the world. Ancient history is still being discovered, and still a mystery. Perhaps the civilization we have in our history books is just the latest in many eras of civilization that mankind has experienced. Where was Atlantis? Modern education has formed our concept of reality. There could be another hidden reality. The time has come to open our minds (again).

The trouble is that an open mind accepts whatever garbage is thrown into it. Why don't we sit down and use the gifts for logic and clear thought we've been given instead, so we can avoid the pitfalls of untested belief? It is a bit harder and more demanding, but it's ultimately more rewarding.

--Jaylemurph

[Big Bad Voodoo]

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[/media]

Pyramids are found around the world. Dragon myths are found around the world. Ancient history is still being discovered, and still a mystery. Perhaps the civilization we have in our history books is just the latest in many eras of civilization that mankind has experienced. Where was Atlantis? Modern education has formed our concept of reality. There could be another hidden reality. The time has come to open our minds (again).

And sadly in today science we have so many surppresions, dogmas, beliefs and hoaxes.

Btw Osmanagić isnt scientists but all he speak about is lies.

Edit: And famous peer review. Like someone cares for outdated and not working method.

Edited February 18, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Big powerful animals are common motifs in many societies that doesn't mean they are related. Case in point the Key Marco Cat was made by Calusas Indians in Florida.

http://en.wikipedia....KeyMarcoCat.jpg

I never heard of Key Marco Cat. Look like this is global.

You mean you think it may have once had the head of a lion before and the lionhead was recarved sometime later into a human head? *waves hand*...Naaaaaaaaaw! No use thinking that, L. Wait about 50 years after a generation is gone and archaeological mistakes have been corrected, then maybe it won't be speculation. As of now, that's pure speculation, L.

Sekhmet is lion head body of human. Sphinx is opposite.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Jay your imagination IS more vivid then I first thought.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The trouble is that an open mind accepts whatever garbage is thrown into it. Why don't we sit down and use the gifts for logic and clear thought we've been given instead, so we can avoid the pitfalls of untested belief? It is a bit harder and more demanding, but it's ultimately more rewarding.

--Jaylemurph

Being openminded doesnt mean stupid. It doesnt mean that you are able to believe in anything. It means that you are open to others posibilities not just to most likely.

Edited February 18, 2013 by the L

[jaylemurph]

Being openminded doesnt mean stupid. It doesnt mean that you are able to believe in anything. It means that you are open to others posibilities not just to most likely.

I understand that in theory.

It's just being around this site for a long time is somewhat of a challenge to that statement, in between the dragons, pyramid geysers and stunning re-workings of history that ignore actual history.

--Jaylemurph

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I understand that in theory.

It's just being around this site for a long time is somewhat of a challenge to that statement, in between the dragons, pyramid geysers and stunning re-workings of history that ignore actual history.

--Jaylemurph

No one cant know all. To understand how everything comes to be you first must know about

1.cosmology

2.geology

3.biology

4.paleometerology

5.palaentology

6.archaeology

7.anthropology

8.metallurgy

9.then history

10.art,music

11.philosophy

12.religion

13.medicine

14.math,physics,chemistry

17.architecture

18.literature

...

So dont be harsh even if people are wrong.

[Gunn]

The trouble is that an open mind accepts whatever garbage is thrown into it. Why don't we sit down and use the gifts for logic and clear thought we've been given instead, so we can avoid the pitfalls of untested belief? It is a bit harder and more demanding, but it's ultimately more rewarding.

--Jaylemurph

That's not really a opened mind, Jaylemurph. That's a mind that simiply doesn't read enough information, doesn't want to do investigative research in all possibilities and apply strict critical thinking to both sides(fringe and professional) of the argument. Takes what it is told at face value, from either side I might add, with the quickest answer of the unexplained or unknown. Doesn't want to wait for more info to come along and provide more clues and answers on the subject, which could lead to future unknown archaeological discoveries and a correction of written history. Like in the case of the first Europeans to get to America. First it was Colombus <-(yeah, that was preached like it was written in stone, couldn't be no one else could it?. Suprise! Wrong! ) and now it's the Norse, yet today...professionals are arguing about possibly even earlier European arrivels (English fisherman) before the Norse. Which is a maybe according to them, but so were the Norse.

It can also be biased in it's thinking, which is actually a close mind or one sided viewpoint of a majority. Because they don't look at things from a third point of view, which is: We know very litlle of what we think we do know, we've only begun to scratch the archaeological surface and we can't write world history in stone, permanently, as of yet.

Sekhmet is lion head body of human. Sphinx is opposite.

Right. Not sure why you brought it up then, thought you was leading to what I was talking about. No biggie, L.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Purifier

[jaylemurph]

No one cant know all. To understand how everything comes to be you first must know about

1.cosmology

2.geology

3.biology

4.paleometerology

5.palaentology

6.archaeology

7.anthropology

8.metallurgy

9.then history

10.art,music

11.philosophy

12.religion

13.medicine

14.math,physics,chemistry

17.architecture

18.literature

...

So dont be harsh even if people are wrong.

I think everyone can't know it all, actually.

Please don't take that as a serious dig at your English skills. You speak better English than I do any other langauge, (except maybe Latin, any there's hardly any excuse here to trot that out here), but I can't let that statement go without comment.

But I certainly take your point, or else I wouldn't be a teacherish person -- although given some of our previous discussion, I think it's funny/pointed that you left language out of your list.

--Jaylemurph

[Big Bad Voodoo]

But I certainly take your point, or else I wouldn't be a teacherish person -- although given some of our previous discussion, I think it's funny/pointed that you left language out of your list.

--Jaylemurph

Thank you on your comment about my English. Some users think I shouldnt post at all untill I learn it. (minority but still)

Lingustics as psychology and others are under "..."

[kmt_sesh]

I would ignore those posters, then, L. They're foolish. You're English is fine.

On to matters of Löwenfrau or Löwenmencsh (or whatever it's currently being called) and possible connections with Sekhmet.

Cross-cultural Transference

What's interesting is that the anthropological culture to which Löwenmencsh belongs, the Aurignacian culture, extended all the way into southwest Asia, including the Levant. But the Löwenmencsh figure was carved some 40,000 years ago—deep in Paleolithic times—so that alone makes a connection unlikely. I don't think Sekhmet is attested in the historical records until the Pyramid Texts at the end of Dynasty 5, although it's possible she pre-exists them in an iconographic, unwritten form. As has been mentioned in this discussion, the lion in general has been an icon in numerous world cultures, wherever lions can be or were once found. I'd say Löwenmencsh and Sekhmet represent two unrelated things, their only similarity being a lion head.

Sekhmet's Origins

How Sekhmet came to be is not known, but the same can be said for many ancient Egyptian deities. I doubt there's any connection with Aker, who could be shown in lion form but who served an entirely different purpose in Egyptian religion. As far as that goes there were many different leonine and feline deities in ancient Egypt, and while some may have stemmed from others, more is the case that they represent the dieties of different cults in different regions of the ancient Nile Valley.

The Sphinx and Leo

The Sphinx is an altogether different animal—pardon the pun. It is strictly a royal form. This is true from the earliest datable Sphinx, in the reign of Djedefre. It goes back to the popularity of the leonine figure in ancient cultures, the Near East included. The ancient Egyptian word for lion was mai, and it served as one of the ancient words for "king." Besides which, the Sphinx was a male form. Sekhmet from the beginning was female. Sekhmet was very much tied into the religion of the state but there is no observable connection with sphinxes.

I cannot discount the possibility that the Sphinx once had a different head, although I personally do not consider it plausible. The leonine body with the king's head makes perfect sense from the start. At least, I confess, the possibility might be there. It's considerably more realistic than Robert Temple's amusing idea that the original head was of the Anubis jackal.

The constellation of Leo was not part of the ancient Egyptian tradition, but the ancient Greek. Constellations were not integral in Egyptian religion to begin with—although they existed in the tradition, of course—but the very few "star charts" that can be observed in a pre-Greek pharaonic context reveal no attribution to Leo.

[jaylemurph]

I cannot discount the possibility that the Sphinx once had a different head, although I personally do not consider it plausible. The leonine body with the king's head makes perfect sense from the start. At least, I confess, the possibility might be there. It's considerably more realistic than Robert Temple's amusing idea that the original head was of the Anubis jackal.

Pfft. Jackal. Of course not. It was originally a Basset Hound of Most Prodigious Size. It is, as the Dothraki say, known.

--Jaylemurph

[kmt_sesh]

Pfft. Jackal. Of course not. It was originally a Basset Hound of Most Prodigious Size. It is, as the Dothraki say, known.

--Jaylemurph

It is known.

(Just bought Season 2 on BlueRay. Can't wait to start watching it.)

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Kmt,

Thanks on support about my English. Feel free to correct my bad grammar.

I didn know that Aurignacian culture extend to Levant. That somehow can support my strech idea. Time gap is big but still. Many things originate far back in history. such as usage of fire, usage of language, clothing...Also you said that origin of Sekhmet is unknown. Ofcourse that doesnt proof that Im right, But they are VERY similar. Even design. Atleast to me.

In my country we called Sphinx - Sfinga. Indicating female. Just interesting thing which probably explain my mistake.

Also as I understand Aker is connected with heavens. Seting and rising sun. So could it be that Sphinx was once leo representing one guradian Aker?

Edited February 25, 2013 by the L

[Everdred]

In my country we called Sphinx - Sfinga. Indicating female. Just interesting thing which probably explain my mistake.

That's following the Greek, which was also feminine; their idea of a sphinx was a creature with the body of a lion, wings, and a human woman's face. The Great Sphinx of Egypt was somewhat similar so they applied that word to it.

But the idea of anthropomorphizing animals isn't something that needs to be explained by cultural connection. It's an easy place for anyone's mind to wander.

[Dynamo X]

The trouble is that an open mind accepts whatever garbage is thrown into it. Why don't we sit down and use the gifts for logic and clear thought we've been given instead, so we can avoid the pitfalls of untested belief? It is a bit harder and more demanding, but it's ultimately more rewarding.

--Jaylemurph

Sounds just like theory. The trouble is that a lot of these have been wrong also. The human race thinks that it knows so much when actually we know so very little.

[jaylemurph]

Sounds just like theory. The trouble is that a lot of these have been wrong also. The human race thinks that it knows so much when actually we know so very little.

Well yes, but logical thought provides us a way to judge old information against new data, so we can retain the useful and ditch the untrue. Wildly believing without rigor or reason whatever happens to appeal to an individual doesn't really do that. If you have a better system, now's the time to pipe up.

--Jaylemurph