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[Merged] Did we land on the moon?

nasa apollo hoax

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#16    Czero 101

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:58 PM

Regardless of Waspie's status as a Mod here, the points he made in his reply are fair and accurate and, your indignation notwithstanding, do address the points that you find lacking in the logic department.

Maybe you could explain to us how standing in the front yard as a child and watching the rockets against the night sky gives you qualification to say what is or is not logical as far as the logistical and economical realities of space travel are concerned.

As for whether or not you made a mistake posting here... the only one that can truly answer that is yourself. However, I would put forth that one mistake you HAVE made is in how you have interpreted  Waspie's post.






Cz

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan

"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false." – H. L. Mencken

#17    Redoubt

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:08 PM

View PostCzero 101, on 16 May 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Regardless of Waspie's status as a Mod here, the points he made in his reply are fair and accurate and, your indignation notwithstanding, do address the points that you find lacking in the logic department.

Maybe you could explain to us how standing in the front yard as a child and watching the rockets against the night sky gives you qualification to say what is or is not logical as far as the logistical and economical realities of space travel are concerned.

As for whether or not you made a mistake posting here... the only one that can truly answer that is yourself. However, I would put forth that one mistake you HAVE made is in how you have interpreted  Waspie's post.

Cz

Good lord.

I had this website... my account stashed in an old folder for years. There was no notes suggesting that this wasn't a place where one could carry on a topic in a civil manner. That means, you don't have to worry about someone heaving down on you with innuendo and insults. I mean, heck... I don't know any of you and you don't know me. Why automatically assume and then suggest that a complete stranger is not worthy of commenting on a given subject?

That's what I don't get.

I stand by my comment on the subject of the moon landings. Every word. beyond that, I may have made a mistake by assuming I could come here and join in... time will tell.

Thanks for your reply.

EDIT: Never mind. iI's not worth the headache. My apologies to anyone who feels I stepped on their toes.

I'm gone.

Edited by Redoubt, 16 May 2012 - 05:15 PM.

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#18    Czero 101

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostRedoubt, on 16 May 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Good lord.

I had this website... my account stashed in an old folder for years. There was no notes suggesting that this wasn't a place where one could carry on a topic in a civil manner. That means, you don't have to worry about someone heaving down on you with innuendo and insults. I mean, heck... I don't know any of you and you don't know me. Why automatically assume and then suggest that a complete stranger is not worthy of commenting on a given subject?

That's what I don't get.

I stand by my comment on the subject of the moon landings. Every word. beyond that, I may have made a mistake by assuming I could come here and join in... time will tell.

Thanks for your reply.

Please point out where I said that you "weren't worthy of replying"...?

Again, I think the mistake you are making is in how you are interpreting replies to your post.

No one has said that you are not allowed to post here, just made the suggestion that you might not know a lot about the topic. You've replied with indignation at that assumption backed up by anecdotes of your childhood, which, honestly, while nice and interesting and all that, do nothing to disprove the assumption in the first place.

If pointing that out to you is somehow offensive to you then only have two things further to say to you:

1. Unfortunately in a medium that only allows us the use of text and the odd "smiley", emotional context is notoriously hard to accurately convey, especially by and to those who don't use this medium frequently.

2. You need to grow a bit of a thicker virtual skin.

Good day....





Cz

Edited by Czero 101, 16 May 2012 - 05:19 PM.

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan

"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false." – H. L. Mencken

#19    Troublehalf

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:16 PM

The thing that comes to my mind when people say "Did we land on the moon?" is this.....

Wouldn't it be cheaper to actually land on the moon than it would be to fake it? You have to build a rocket that can at least get into space.... Or people will ask how you got to the moon... Then you'd have to pay for a film crew and all the things such as catering and so on.... When it would be easier just to feed 3 astronauts and actually send them to the moon.

Next, America couldn't even keep the Clinton fiasco silent, and that was involving the President of the United States, how have they kept it quite for this amount of time? There are so many people and variables that unless they were all killed, I think it's unlikely it was faked. Next, isn't there a "lunar laser ranging retroreflector" on the moon that you can actually use, providing you have the equipment and knowledge? Doesn't that mean humanity has placed it there?

Furthermore, even if we didn't, why doesn't the government come clean? The Cold War is over, the "bragging rights" are no longer a priority... I just don't understand why you'd keep silent about it after all this time.

Next, and most importantly for me, isn't it depressing to think that humanity can't even land on it's own moon? How are we supposed to go into space exploration by manned craft if we can't even make it to the moon.


#20    J. K.

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

That is one of the issues I've always had with the hoax theory--such a big secret kept by all the people involved on numerous missions?

Has there ever been any video evidence that the astronauts were seen on earth while they were supposed to be in space?  Or video evidence of the capsule being transported to the sea so it could be picked up?

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#21    MID

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:26 PM

View PostRedoubt, on 16 May 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Excuse me?

Mister/Ms Mod, please allow me to tell you that I grew up in Florida during the days of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo. I had family members that worked on the cape... we could stand in the front yard and see the rockets against the night sky. So, I defend my life as enough knowledge to allow me to discuss this topic with anyone.

Second, I mentioned asteroids in context to the subject of whether or not we actually landed on the moon.

Did I make a mistake by commenting on this site/subject? I really don't get the way you responded... especially as a mod.


i think you make a mistake in over-reacting to what a moderator has indicated simply, that your position belongs in another thread.
  Waspie was correct in everything he siad.

It also doesn't matter that you lived on the space coast.  Living in Florida and  having been witness to many launches or knowing people who worked at the Cape doesn't qualify you as an expert on space flight, astronautics and aeronautics.  if tyou did have some of the knowledge you claim, you'd know that what Waspie is discussing relating to the economy of visiting an asteroid, as opposed to flying a manned mission to the Moon,  is correct.


Now, the topic here is "DID WE LAND ON THE MOON, "  which is designed to address people's doubts and fallacious claims to the contrary--an educational thread, so-to-speak.
And no one can or should prohibit anyone from joining in on the discussion.

However, many have been directed to other threads when they've strayed off topic.
Please feel free to post..on topic.  Don't get too excited, and stay cool.

:tu:


#22    skyeagle409

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

View PostJ. K., on 16 May 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

That is one of the issues I've always had with the hoax theory--such a big secret kept by all the people involved on numerous missions?

Has there ever been any video evidence that the astronauts were seen on earth while they were supposed to be in space?  Or video evidence of the capsule being transported to the sea so it could be picked up?
\
A very close friend of mine, Lt. Colonel James C. Warren, an original Tuskegee Airman, was on the flight crew that flew the Apollo 14 astronauts to Houston after their moon flight and he can personally confirm the reality of the Apollo moon missions.

He was also hand-picked by the Air Force for the flight crew that flew the first of our Vietnam POWs out of North Vietnam to Clark airbase, Philippines. His aircraft, the "Hanoi Taxi," is on display at the Air Force museum at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH and his flight cap and uniform he wore on that mission are also on display.

To sum it up, men have walked and drove on the moon.

Edited by skyeagle409, 16 May 2012 - 09:37 PM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#23    Emma_Acid

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 14 May 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

It's not dead, rather like a Time Lord, it has regenerated.

Younger and better looking. Hopefully.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#24    Emma_Acid

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:42 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 16 May 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

A very close friend of mine, Lt. Colonel James C. Warren, an original Tuskegee Airman, was on the flight crew that flew the Apollo 14 astronauts to Houston after their moon flight and he can personally confirm the reality of the Apollo moon missions.

Kudos, sir. :blush:

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#25    MID

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostTroublehalf, on 16 May 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

The thing that comes to my mind when people say "Did we land on the moon?" is this.....

Wouldn't it be cheaper to actually land on the moon than it would be to fake it?

I don't know if it's so much a question of cost rather than it being a degree of difficulty involved.

Personally, I've always been of the mind that it would be much more difficult to fake  than it was to do it.

It's a matter of the technical resources that would be required to have faked what we saw happen on the Moon over the course of 3 1/2 years.  We didn't have the capacity.

Think about it:

Apollo 11, July 1969.
We saw a TV broadcast from the moon that lasted nearly 5 hours.  During that time we saw a little over 2 hours of EVA, where men moved and worked in 1/6 g, where things got tossed and behaved jut as items tossed in 1/6 g should behave.  We watched an American flag  erected on the surface, then stand there for the entire duration of the broadcast, and never moved an inch.  We saw  dust get kicked up ansd behave as it should in vacuum...no dust cloud, etc.


We'd never experienced the 1/6 g vacuum of the Moon before a man fist set foot on it at 2256 hours (EDT) on July 20, 1969.
Yet, we saw the unusual lunar environment that night, and strangely enough, for the next 5 lunar  landings, this environment was precisely shown on live TV, consistently, in greater and greater detail...mathematically and photographically verifiable.

We had no high zoot digital TV or special effects then.  Just video tape.

We now know how things behave in 1/6g vacuum.  We could, today, construct an HD fake lunar EVA that  would stun people.

Then?

Graint B/W and then Color TV videos tghat were the first representations of an environment we knew nothing about...including what it looked like!


Think about the difficulty implied in faking that...


#26    MID

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:33 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 16 May 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

\
A very close friend of mine, Lt. Colonel James C. Warren, an original Tuskegee Airman, was on the flight crew that flew the Apollo 14 astronauts to Houston after their moon flight and he can personally confirm the reality of the Apollo moon missions.


That means that the Colonel had a nice long flight with this man:

Posted Image
CAPT ALAN B SHEPARD, USN

..and I'm sure that Captain Shepard nor Colonel Warren ever thought about this nonsense.
I think the Colonel might have gotten to know that aptain well enough ton know that the Captain  would rather die (or kill the fool who suggested such a thing to him ) than consider the possibility of evr participating in such a dishonorable and  treasonous fiasco.


#27    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:45 AM

View PostMID, on 16 May 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

That means that the Colonel had a nice long flight with this man:

Posted Image
CAPT ALAN B SHEPARD, USN

..and I'm sure that Captain Shepard nor Colonel Warren ever thought about this nonsense.
I think the Colonel might have gotten to know that aptain well enough ton know that the Captain  would rather die (or kill the fool who suggested such a thing to him ) than consider the possibility of evr participating in such a dishonorable and  treasonous fiasco.

As Lt. Colonel Warren speaks of his Apollo 14 recovery mission,  I watch as his eyes light up because he is honored to have been a member of the Apollo 14 recovery team. He is a no-nonsense kind of person and the moon hoax folks would only serve to anger him much like Astronaut 'Buzz' Aldrin, when he punched that guy in a video for being obnoxious. He was also a member of the flight crew that flew the  Bob Hope Christmas Show on parts of the southeast Asia Tour in December of 1964. He is up in age, but we still fly together in his Beechcraft Skipper from time to  time.

It is unfortunate the astronauts risked their lives to fly to the moon and yet, there are those who try to discredit the achievements of the astronauts, NASA, and others who put in a lot of hard work and instrumental in placing men on the moon.

View PostEmma_Acid, on 16 May 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Kudos, sir. :blush:

Thank you!! :tu:

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#28    MID

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 12:59 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 17 May 2012 - 12:45 AM, said:

As Lt. Colonel Warren speaks of his Apollo 14 recovery mission,  I watch as his eyes light up because he is honored to have been a member of the Apollo 14 recovery team. He is a no-nonsense kind of person and the moon hoax folks would only serve to anger him much like Astronaut 'Buzz' Aldrin, when he punched that guy in a video for being obnoxious. He was also a member of the flight crew that flew the  Bob Hope Christmas Show on parts of the southeast Asia Tour in December of 1964. He is up in age, but we still fly together in his Beechcraft Skipper from time to  time.

It is unfortunate the astronauts risked their lives to fly to the moon and yet, there are those who try to discredit the achievements of the astronauts, NASA, and others who put in a lot of hard work and instrumental in placing men on the moon.


It may be that there will always be those who know nothing, believe too much nonsense, and who thus try to discredit the extraordinary.
It's unfortunate, but typical.
Best I think to try and educate people, and, occassionally...

...Fly with the Colonel, in his Skipper!

Posted Image


#29    skyeagle409

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:35 AM

View PostMID, on 17 May 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

It may be that there will always be those who know nothing, believe too much nonsense, and who thus try to discredit the extraordinary.
It's unfortunate, but typical.
Best I think to try and educate people, and, occassionally...

...Fly with the Colonel, in his Skipper!

Posted Image

I love that airplane. Here is an attachment photo of Colonel Warren's aircraft that I took at the Travis AFB air show in 2008.  I will speak with him tomorrow in regards to the Apollo 14 recovery mission at his home and discuss other Apollo moon missions.

Attached Files


Edited by skyeagle409, 17 May 2012 - 05:50 AM.

KEEP YOUR MACH UP AND CHECK SIX

#30    turbonium

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:39 AM

postbaguk said..


Table XI is the mobility table data, using flexometers and the mobility notation table (as well as other techniques). Table XIII is from the X-ray study. Look at page 50 and see what equipment they use for each sub-test. Subtest 2 (X-ray study) lists X-ray facilities and a mock-up of the couch as necessary equipment. They suit someone up, sit him in the couch, and X-ray him to determine the eye-heart angle, and measure the joint angles using the mid-points of the major bones. If that wasn't enough, you can infer he's seated by looking at what they measure. In the mobility table study, they measure (among others): hip adduction-abduction; hip flexion-extension; hip rotation; trunk rotation; trunk-hip flexion-extension; trunk-hip lateral flexion. In the X-ray study, the only one of these angles they measure is hip flexion. This conform's with what you'd expect if the subject was seated in a couch.

No. They are seated for the eye-heart angle test. You can't expand that to other tests, as you've done here. They don't say or suggest this. If they did, it would have stated so. But this was specific.

You can't make such faulty leaps of logic.