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Are Extraterrestrials Really Demons?


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#301    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:40 AM

View PostHazzard, on 11 April 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I think he worked too hard at being "strange",... his way of trying to break away from the strict religious environment he grew up in I imagine.

This probably is true. He was the profane pop/rock star of his day.

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#302    psyche101

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:36 AM

Quote

MY REPLY: Credible witnesses make the difference. All of them aren't dishonest or mistaken.

Credible witnesses say they saw something they canot identify, and I agree, these are the claims that are the more noteworthy, however, from a neutral stance nothing can be ascertained. What we have is a mystery. Just like the 1896 Airships.

Quote

MY REPLY: I disagree with that in this way. If a trusted, experienced pilot reports a sighting along with scores of ordinary people at the same time, the most likely outcome is that they have a shared experience.

Yes, that much is true , however, drawing conclusions from speculations is where we tend to go off the rails.

Quote

MY REPLY: There's nothing wrong with that. There are instances where this is not possible, though (see my example).

If a thing is not subject to repeatability, I am not sure why it should be considered genuine.

Quote

MY REPLY: He's a jerk and a joke. Let him keep his money.

In your opinion perhaps, but is this not just as bad as the blind skeptics you chastise? On what do you base this? His success? I have seen some of those going for the challenge, and they failed miserably. His explanations of the tricksters that make these wild claims are clean, precise, and in my opinion, rather benign. He did the world a service with Uri Geller, and I doubt anyone can deny that.

Quote

MY REPLY: They all saw a flying saucer at the same time, but the craft could have been terrestrial, for all they knew. I'll say that a tenth to a quarter of cases are valid in some way, but don't quote me on that.

So where lies the mystery if the craft is terrestrial? I do not for one second deny the UFO phenomena, but I do feel that people jump to conclusions far too quickly. There is no proof of ET visitation, there is merely speculation. Nobody haas ever seen an ET craft, so how do we have so many experts that identify craft from other planets?

Edited by psyche101, 12 April 2013 - 05:37 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#303    psyche101

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:39 AM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 11 April 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

But you don't think he actually contacted anything when he was doing all the black magic and occult stuff?

I think he smoked a lot of Opium and only mentioned half the things he "saw". Tesla was a brilliant man. But when he was high on pot he thought he could contact Venusians.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#304    GoSC

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:48 AM

View PostHazzard, on 11 April 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

What would be the point of changing one absurd and unsubstantiated belief with another?

One could underhand the other that's why. When people get all obsessed about this UFO business, the role of God and his laws could be diminished to nil existant in these individuals because they are caught up with a different spirit than God's Holy Spirit. Living everyday to God is important to Christians. These individuals reject God (or openly rebel against God even) because the Devil is actively deceiving and misleading them with miracles, illusions, and false wonders a la the UFO phenomenon.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#305    Reann

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:18 PM

View PostB Jenkins, on 12 April 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

One could underhand the other that's why. When people get all obsessed about this UFO business, the role of God and his laws could be diminished to nil existant in these individuals because they are caught up with a different spirit than God's Holy Spirit. Living everyday to God is important to Christians. These individuals reject God (or openly rebel against God even) because the Devil is actively deceiving and misleading them with miracles, illusions, and false wonders a la the UFO phenomenon.
How do you know this to be so? I'm trying to grasp what you mean in mentioning miracles , illusions, and false wonders,and  the devil  . I understand the devil as something in the way, sort of like an obstacle in the way of you , when trying to reach a certain point ,or, when you just can't seem to get out of that dark forest ,that was actually the true meaning of that word devil . So , when did it become something other? Or why , who , how ? What people rewrote it's definition  to mean something other than it's original meaning?
I watched something once on reverse engenering and a space craft , it absolutly is amazing what sound can do ! Not even an illusion , but reality !


#306    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

Demons were invented to shirk personal responsibility and the gods were created to ask for forgiveness for those transgressions (and have a spiffy afterlife), JMO.

How can we possibly equate aliens, which have not been proven to exist at all, with demons, an invention to explain bad behavior? Neither technically exist! Why not ask the question Are Aliens actually the Tooth Fairies agents?

IF, and I do not believe this, demons existed they do not need to do anything to 'dissuade' people from belief. Isn't it one of the main principles of at least one major religion that humans were given free will to choose? Of course if you choose wrong then it is infinite fecal sandwiches forever but hey, god/gods love you no matter what...unless you don't believe in them. Seems a bit psychotic to me, but what do I know (I'll bring some mayo to make them sandwiches a bit more bearable)? It has been happening for thousands of years. If it didn't there wouldn't be religious texts telling us if we are naughty the all-loving being/beings will have us punished for eternity?

UFO's exist. Hell's bells I see them everyday (I really need new glasses). Aliens might exist somewhere. Here? Not likely and as stated so far there is zero evidence to support ALIENZ R H3R3!!

I'd love to be wrong incidentally. I found this page years ago with that exact aim. I used to have the mindset that since the net was so huge that there might be credible information 'out there' that wouldn't, for whatever reason, make it to the mainstream. So far it has been the same twuck regurgitated over and over again. Nothing new just the same, at best, ambiguous stories and way too many snake oil salesmen.

Humans are far from perfect observers no matter their perceived authority. People will make reality out of incomplete fragmentary information and believe it with unshakable conviction. It does not make it true. Finally people will perpetuate fibs, I say fibs because most do not think it causes harm even though they are lies.

Humans are wacky critters to be sure. All of this is, of course, JMO.

Edited for a typo

Edited by Esoteric Toad, 12 April 2013 - 03:07 PM.


#307    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:54 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 12 April 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

I think he smoked a lot of Opium and only mentioned half the things he "saw". Tesla was a brilliant man. But when he was high on pot he thought he could contact Venusians.
so you think he saw more than he was telling people about?

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#308    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:00 PM

View PostReann, on 12 April 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

I recall a part in the movie where it seemed like he was taken from one ship and then to a hanger or something where the individuals  escorting him  where described as  humans that had  some sort of suits on. I'm pretty sure that in the documentary he mentioned this and something about being transported from an area where he entered a  air craft hanger , sort of like area 51 . I can't recall if he stated that he suspected possible  government involement later on , but not at that present time when it had occured.
Personally , I have different feelings about the movie after viewing  the documentary that i've seen. I certainly do think that something occured , only I'm not certain of whether or not it was actually aliens .

You asked someone about Crowley , Crowley was a awful  individual , an evil man he was  that  hurt children in the most horrible way because  he believed it empowered him . I despise the man and because of that I say he was evil.
Yeah I agree with you on the Travis Walton thing something did happen, but what it was I dont quite know
Yeah Crowley I had brought up originally because of the drawing he called LAM which looks a lot like E.T. Greys, I know he was a rotten person though

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#309    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:38 AM

Psyche, we can't repeat many or most events in such a strict environment. How does Randi expect to test a mass sighting of a unique event? It's impossible. As for my comment about him, it mostly has to do with his creepy eugenicist leanings.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#310    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:52 AM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 12 April 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Demons were invented to shirk personal responsibility and the gods were created to ask for forgiveness for those transgressions (and have a spiffy afterlife), JMO.

How can we possibly equate aliens, which have not been proven to exist at all, with demons, an invention to explain bad behavior? Neither technically exist! Why not ask the question Are Aliens actually the Tooth Fairies agents?

IF, and I do not believe this, demons existed they do not need to do anything to 'dissuade' people from belief. Isn't it one of the main principles of at least one major religion that humans were given free will to choose? Of course if you choose wrong then it is infinite fecal sandwiches forever but hey, god/gods love you no matter what...unless you don't believe in them. Seems a bit psychotic to me, but what do I know (I'll bring some mayo to make them sandwiches a bit more bearable)? It has been happening for thousands of years. If it didn't there wouldn't be religious texts telling us if we are naughty the all-loving being/beings will have us punished for eternity?

UFO's exist. Hell's bells I see them everyday (I really need new glasses). Aliens might exist somewhere. Here? Not likely and as stated so far there is zero evidence to support ALIENZ R H3R3!!

I'd love to be wrong incidentally. I found this page years ago with that exact aim. I used to have the mindset that since the net was so huge that there might be credible information 'out there' that wouldn't, for whatever reason, make it to the mainstream. So far it has been the same twuck regurgitated over and over again. Nothing new just the same, at best, ambiguous stories and way too many snake oil salesmen.

Humans are far from perfect observers no matter their perceived authority. People will make reality out of incomplete fragmentary information and believe it with unshakable conviction. It does not make it true. Finally people will perpetuate fibs, I say fibs because most do not think it causes harm even though they are lies.

Humans are wacky critters to be sure. All of this is, of course, JMO.

Edited for a typo

I get that, but this is directed at individuals who think that one or both entities are real. You think that both beings are no more real than the Easter Bunny, and you have that right. I'll then change the topic for you. Is Santa Claus more real than the Easter Bunny? ;) Seriously, I agree with some of your beliefs. It's true that the idea of the gods is/was used to gain control and power over many people. Christian churches aren't/weren't immune to that. We differ in that I believe that "extra-human" beings exist. How can we say *for sure* that they don't? We can more realistically say that they may or may not. There is just so much about reality that we can't even grasp, let alone master, and science (in the historical record) goes where the current "proof" takes it. It could be that *all* of our interpretations of life are off the mark in some way.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#311    Esoteric Toad

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:18 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 13 April 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

I get that, but this is directed at individuals who think that one or both entities are real. You think that both beings are no more real than the Easter Bunny, and you have that right. I'll then change the topic for you. Is Santa Claus more real than the Easter Bunny? ;) Seriously, I agree with some of your beliefs. It's true that the idea of the gods is/was used to gain control and power over many people. Christian churches aren't/weren't immune to that. We differ in that I believe that "extra-human" beings exist. How can we say *for sure* that they don't? We can more realistically say that they may or may not. There is just so much about reality that we can't even grasp, let alone master, and science (in the historical record) goes where the current "proof" takes it. It could be that *all* of our interpretations of life are off the mark in some way.
Wouldn't the "extra-humans" be just as unlikely as the aliens and demons then? If we cannot observe any of these "beings" then for all intenstive purposes it is just another spirit/god/demon or whatever you choose to call it. Science goes where there is consistent data, at least that is the way I see it. The reason we do not have scientist studying ghost, demons, spirits, extraterrestrials or other para-super-natural beings is that so far they have found to be critters of belief/faith. I cannot imagine any person of science turning down an opportunity to discover these things (regardless of grand conspiracies as some believe). Lack of evidence does not equal evidence. We do not know if any of these things exist. Critical thinking should lead us to assume they do not until the evidence says otherwise. JMO of course.


#312    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:06 AM

View PostEsoteric Toad, on 13 April 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Wouldn't the "extra-humans" be just as unlikely as the aliens and demons then? If we cannot observe any of these "beings" then for all intenstive purposes it is just another spirit/god/demon or whatever you choose to call it. Science goes where there is consistent data, at least that is the way I see it. The reason we do not have scientist studying ghost, demons, spirits, extraterrestrials or other para-super-natural beings is that so far they have found to be critters of belief/faith. I cannot imagine any person of science turning down an opportunity to discover these things (regardless of grand conspiracies as some believe). Lack of evidence does not equal evidence. We do not know if any of these things exist. Critical thinking should lead us to assume they do not until the evidence says otherwise. JMO of course.

I mean that some scientific "facts" change over time. It may just scratch the surface of what reality truly is. It indeed is vital to our evolution as a species in the sense that it propels us ever forward, and it helps us make sense of nature, to use it to improve ourselves. Science and spirituality don't need to be antagonists. One doesn't have to ignore or insult the other. They can work together in harmony. There are times when these debates can turn into presentations of false dichotomies. We should feel free to step out of our boxes when situations call for doing so.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#313    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 13 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

I mean that some scientific "facts" change over time. It may just scratch the surface of what reality truly is. It indeed is vital to our evolution as a species in the sense that it propels us ever forward, and it helps us make sense of nature, to use it to improve ourselves. Science and spirituality don't need to be antagonists. One doesn't have to ignore or insult the other. They can work together in harmony. There are times when these debates can turn into presentations of false dichotomies. We should feel free to step out of our boxes when situations call for doing so.
I agree with you, and science and religion dont have to go against each other.

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#314    FlyingAngel

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

Demons exist within us (inside). No need to search anywhere.

Edited by FlyingAngel, 14 April 2013 - 08:48 PM.


#315    psyche101

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:13 AM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 12 April 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

so you think he saw more than he was telling people about?


Pink elephants. Unicorns, rivers of psychedelic rainbows, I bet he "saw" quite a bit on Opium. Nothing he experienced on Opium was actually supernatural. It's why people take it I believe. To escape reality. He just sold his dreams was all.

People were pretty religious and rather naive back then too, you only had to say your had a neutral opinion of the devil, and people would fear you. Although not all that long ago, it was commonplace to believe in witches, spells and the like.  I suppose that is why Fonzie was considered tough in the day? Imagine him fronting an LA street gang?

Posted Image



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Crowley would not command the interest he did back than today. He would just be another drugged out nutter.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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