10148 replies to this topic

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:47 AM, said:

How should we assume that ancient humans just out of the stone age with no steel tools of any kind were able to quarry and move hundred ton rocks and then stack them on top of each other? It might be fun to pretend along with you, so how shall we pretend they were able to do it? What reason(s) should we pretend they did it for?

The means and/or reasoning is irrelevant to your initial question. Simply because you cannot envision a means or a reason does not mean that there were none; it simply means that you cannot envision one.

[nopeda]

zoser, on 17 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

The Great Pyramid
Puma Punku
The various Megalithic sites of Peru, Central and South America, where precision stonework was achieved with extremely hard stone and impossible weights...............
Try that one for a start.

Hmmm...maybe they cut hundred ton rocks with tools made of copper and wood? And then not having wheeled vehicles that could haul them they dragged them with rope made of goat hair or hemp? I wonder what the weight rating would be on a rope that can drag a hundred ton rock across the ground? At least three hundred tons, right? How hard do you think it would be for ancient humans to get hold of three hundred ton rated rope? Or maybe they had three one hundred ton ropes? Or a hundred three ton ropes? Or...??? Or not. If not then it's all pretty clear, but if they did cut out hundred ton rocks with copper and then drag it with rope and then somehow stack it using badass scaffolding made of ...???... then it brings up some questions:

1. Why did they go to the tremendous effort of building those things in the first place?

2. Why did humans stop building such things?

3. Why instead of getting better at it over the centuries can humans not only no longer do it without the use of modern equipment, but can't even figure out how ancient humans COULD have done it?

4. How could those ancient people have done something without the use of wheels, steel or pulleys that modern humans couldn't do without the use of wheels, steel or pulleys?

[nopeda]

Hazzard, on 17 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Just because we dont know every and all details of how our ancestors built this or that do NOT leave the door open for ET.

The fact that we don't have even the slightest idea of how they could possibly have done the things it seems impossible for them to have done without steel, or wheels or pulleys certainly does though. It opens it wide open. So do some of the things people seemed to know back then, like the Dogons knowing Sirius is a multi star system.

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Hmmm...maybe they cut hundred ton rocks with tools made of copper and wood? And then not having wheeled vehicles that could haul them they dragged them with rope made of goat hair or hemp? I wonder what the weight rating would be on a rope that can drag a hundred ton rock across the ground? At least three hundred tons, right? How hard do you think it would be for ancient humans to get hold of three hundred ton rated rope? Or maybe they had three one hundred ton ropes? Or a hundred three ton ropes? Or...??? Or not. If not then it's all pretty clear, but if they did cut out hundred ton rocks with copper and then drag it with rope and then somehow stack it using badass scaffolding made of ...???...

Your insistence on "hundred-ton blocks" is strangely absolute... which blocks, exactly, were you referring to? Surely you don't think that all stones weigh one-hundred tons?

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

then it brings up some questions:

1. Why did they go to the tremendous effort of building those things in the first place?

Unknown. Not an excuse to say that aliens did it.

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

2. Why did humans stop building such things?

Who said they did? Have you never seen the Eiffel Tower or Vatican City?

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

3. Why instead of getting better at it over the centuries can humans not only no longer do it without the use of modern equipment, but can't even figure out how ancient humans COULD have done it?

Your insistence that it could not be done without modern equipment is unsubstantiated. And the fact of our own ignorance as to how it was done, again, is not justification for concluding that aliens did it.

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

4. How could those ancient people have done something without the use of wheels, steel or pulleys that modern humans couldn't do without the use of wheels, steel or pulleys?

Which ancient people?

You've left a lot of these "questions" regrettably ambiguous...

[nopeda]

DONTEATUS, on 18 November 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

But It only takes that 1% of the really unexplained to Keep the mind wandering !
Mine seems to spend 99% of the time wondering !

Yeah well, how ancient humans could have done the impossible seeming things being discussed is 100% unexplained, not 1%, though I doubt you can consider the possibility of xt assistance in any sort of realistic way(s) even so. But if you think you can please show me to be wrong by a demonstration of you trying to do it. It's amusing just thinking about you trying to make an attempt.

[nopeda]

Arbitran, on 18 November 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

Question: do you think that the Parthenon, or Westminster Abbey, or St. Peter's Basilica were built by human beings, or...?

Humans, though whether or not xts had any influence on any of it is less apparent. Do you think that using the tools they had available to them, the builders of those structures could have built the things we're discussing using hundred ton rocks?

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

The fact that we don't have even the slightest idea of how they could possibly have done the things it seems impossible for them to have done without steel, or wheels or pulleys certainly does though. It opens it wide open. So do some of the things people seemed to know back then, like the Dogons knowing Sirius is a multi star system.

It opens the possibility, sure; it opens the same possibility that it was done with magic, with super-human leprechaun strength, etc... you'll have to give some evidence to suggest that it was aliens, not just say that our ignorance means only aliens could have done it. Logic doesn't work that way. You've committed what is known as the "argument from ignorance" fallacy.

Also, the Dogon, while interesting, is a controversial claim. While there is some possibility that they genuinely gained their knowledge from aliens, it is also possible they gained it from modern people; given they don't exactly have textbooks from a thousand years ago talking about Sirius as a multi-star system, we can't really know what they thought back then. We only know what they're telling us today.

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

Humans, though whether or not xts had any influence on any of it is less apparent. Do you think that using the tools they had available to them, the builders of those structures could have built the things we're discussing using hundred ton rocks?

Your insistence on "hundred-ton rocks" is puzzling. You still haven't told me which hundred-ton rocks you're referring to.

[Slave2Fate]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

Do you think that using the tools they had available to them, the builders of those structures could have built the things we're discussing using hundred ton rocks?

In short...yes.

[nopeda]

Alphamale06, on 17 November 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Pleased to have joined... Thank you

Uh huh...and how do you feel about it by this time? From my experience they welcome you in, then pelt you with all sorts of different bullsh*ts from all directions, and then get offended and insulting when you don't believe every different unlikely seeming story they try to give you to explain different things. I don't see how anyone COULD believe every different bullsh*t idea that these people have suggested, and between them they can't figure out which particular one they think a person should try to cling to. Pitiful at best.

[nopeda]

Arbitran, on 20 November 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Your insistence on "hundred-ton rocks" is puzzling. You still haven't told me which hundred-ton rocks you're referring to.

If you tell me how they moved any of them that will be fine. Or just how they moved twenty five or thirty ton rocks to start with, and then you can explain about the hundred ton ones later if that would be easier for you.

[nopeda]

Arbitran, on 20 November 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

It opens the possibility, sure; it opens the same possibility that it was done with magic, with super-human leprechaun strength, etc...

Not to me. If it does to you then you're not thinking in ways that I consider to be realistic, though you may not be able to appreciate why.

Arbitran, on 20 November 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Also, the Dogon, while interesting, is a controversial claim. While there is some possibility that they genuinely gained their knowledge from aliens, it is also possible they gained it from modern people; given they don't exactly have textbooks from a thousand years ago talking about Sirius as a multi-star system, we can't really know what they thought back then. We only know what they're telling us today.

They're telling us it has been their belief for hundreds of years or more. So far I'll believe them over you, since they're in a position to know a lot more about it than you are afaik. Also I was led to believe that's what they told early European explorers hundreds of years before it was learned to be true.

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

If you tell me how they moved any of them that will be fine. Or just how they moved twenty five or thirty ton rocks to start with, and then you can explain about the hundred ton ones later if that would be easier for you.

Okay, so you're still not going to give me any examples, eh? So be it.



Villagers in Bawomataluo on Nias move a megalith for construction around 1915. Hmm... no modern technology being used... No power tools... no anti-gravity... no aliens... Just ropes and sledges... And managing to move a 70-ton stone! How impressive is that?!

http://en.wikipedia....hs_of_Caracalla

You might also look into the Baths of Caracalla in Rome; 100-ton pillars, with thousands upon thousands of tons having been used in the construction of the place... with only the simple tool-kit of the late-era Romans (c. 210 CE).

The Parthenon is composed of 60-ton blocks, all transported using the methods used by the ancient Greeks (i.e., even more primitive than the later Romans).

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Hagia_Sophia

Or the Hagia Sophia, in Istanbul, Turkey. 100-ton blocks, again, without modern-type technology of any kind.

[Arbitran]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Not to me. If it does to you then you're not thinking in ways that I consider to be realistic, though you may not be able to appreciate why.

You don't seem to understand how logic works. Hint: it doesn't work on a "not to me" basis...

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

They're telling us it has been their belief for hundreds of years or more. So far I'll believe them over you, since they're in a position to know a lot more about it than you are afaik. Also I was led to believe that's what they told early European explorers hundreds of years before it was learned to be true.

You've just demonstrated that you have no idea what you're talking about. When, pray tell, did the Dogon first tell us about this? Hint: it wasn't even two-hundred years ago...

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

nopeda, on 20 November 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

Uh huh...and how do you feel about it by this time? From my experience they welcome you in, then pelt you with all sorts of different bullsh*ts from all directions, and then get offended and insulting when you don't believe every different unlikely seeming story they try to give you to explain different things. I don't see how anyone COULD believe every different bullsh*t idea that these people have suggested, and between them they can't figure out which particular one they think a person should try to cling to. Pitiful at best.

Tone it down nopeda. The profanity filter is there for a reason.The expectation is that all members post in a civil manner.