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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#3706    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 22 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Did I? There you go then, my memory is shot, some might not have seen it anyway and it's good to relook over. I do recall seeing others but not those 2 side by side.

Yes, I meant them, I couldn't remember the other site, lol but I did recall the Brit Am site, feel free to link to the other site though.

Nor was I saying that was Atland, just to clarify.

I remember the map you posted today is the same one as you posted a long time ago, but I although I couldn't find that one, I found another one you posted also:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry3673132

The finds:
http://www.unexplain...35#entry3670892

But that is not about the amber seals. That was another post of mine. Maybe later.


#3707    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:47 PM

This was about inscriptions in Scandinavia:

http://www.unexplain...20#entry4171106




Rock panel with carvings (Helleristning) I

Petroglyphs

Near to this cup mark, there is a figure which may represent a boat.  With the high, upright stern and prow, equally high as what could be the mast, it looks like a ship rendered on a Mycenean vase from late Minoan time ( Ernst Kjellberg og Gösta Säflund, Græsk og Romersk Kunst, 1962, p. 31). To the left is the Linear A inscription, with the signs tu yu  pi ti. The ship figure is pecked into the rock with the same technique as used in the inscription and the cup mark.

...and so on...


http://jarnaes.wordp....com/kongsberg/

http://www.unexplain...20#entry4171181


.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 April 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#3708    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

And this was about the amber seals:

http://www.praehisto...onBernstorf.pdf

I know I have posted about it here (even with screenshots of the seals) but at least you know this is where I got it from.

Posted Image

Edited by Abramelin, 22 April 2013 - 03:59 PM.


#3709    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

This is the post about he Minoan amber seals found in (the peat of) former Rungholt:

Linear Inscriptions in Germany

German anthropologist and cultural historian Hans Peter Duerr states that the Minoans visited the British Isles, presumably for the tin in Cornwall.  From Cornwall, the North Friesian coast, a rich source of amber, is not much farther.  Since its inundation in 1362, the “lost city” of Rungholt, on the Friesian island, Sudfall, has been a rich source of archaeological information. Under the bronze-aged peat layer were found pithoi, such as those carried aboard Minoan/Mycenaean ships during the 14th and 13th centuries BCE.  Moreover, Duerr, while visiting the Rungholt site in 1994, found in the mud some amber artefacts[1] with Lin A/B inscriptions [2].

More here:
http://www.unexplain...45#entry4408433


#3710    Knul

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 April 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

When the OLB talks about the destruction of Aldland, it says that it was the homeland of the Finda,and that is was "far away, and thus they had no need to wage war against the Finda" .

So it cannot be in Frisian territory or in the North Sea area.

That's why I said that you should not interconnect stories from a different background. If one counts the years since the flood of Zeeland, one would not expect some territory 2000 miles away in the Himalayan areea.


#3711    Abramelin

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:46 PM

View PostKnul, on 22 April 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

That's why I said that you should not interconnect stories from a different background. If one counts the years since the flood of Zeeland, one would not expect some territory 2000 miles away in the Himalayan areea.

I don't get it: the Finda had a century to travel from somewhere in Asia to Fryan territory. According to the OLB itself, they were chased by a yet unknown tribe, so let's say they were in somewhat of a hurry.

But what 'Flood of Zeeland' are you talking about? The one Schotanus mentioned (360/350 BCE)?

Or this one:

1254 / Matthaeus Paris's account of a flood at the coast of Flanders:

Posted Image

http://www.unexplain...85#entry4019241

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 April 2013 - 08:29 PM.


#3712    Knul

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 April 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I don't get it: the Finda had a century to travel from somewhere in Asia to Fryan territory. According to the OLB itself, they were chased by a yet unknown tribe, so let's say they were in somewhat of a hurry.

But what 'Flood of Zeeland' are you talking about? The one Schotanus mentioned (360/350 BCE)?

Or this one:

1254 / Matthaeus Paris's account of a flood at the coast of Flanders:

Posted Image

http://www.unexplain...85#entry4019241

.

1953

You mean the Finns. I don't remember that OLB wrote about that.

Edited by Knul, 22 April 2013 - 11:29 PM.


#3713    Abramelin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:35 AM

Alsa is thju skêdnesse.

100 aend 1 jêr nêi that âldland svnken is, kêm thêr ut-et âsta en folk wêi. Thaet folk was vrdrêven thrvch en ôther folk, aefter vs twisk land krêjon hja twispalt, hja skifton hjara selva an twam hâpa, ek hêr gvng sines wêiges. Fon-t êne dêl nis nên tâl to vs ne kêmen, men thaet ôre dêl fyl aefter to vs Skênland. Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ând anda aefter-kâd thaet sunnichste fon al. Thêrvmbe machton hja-t svnder strid wrwinna, aend uthâwede hja ôwers nên lêth ne dêdon, nildon wi thêrvr nên orloch hâ. Nw wi hjam haevon kaenna lêred, sâ willath wi ovir hjara sêda skriwa, aefternêi ho-t vs mith hjam forgungen is, Thaet folk was navt ne wild lik fêlo slachta Findas, men êlik anda Égipta-landar, hja haevath prestera lik tham aend nw hja kaerka haeve âk byldon. Tha prestera send tha engosta hêra, hja hêton hjara selva Mâgjara, hjara aller ovirste hêt Magy, hi is hâvedprester aend kêning mith ên, allet ôre folk is nul in-t siffer aend êllik aend al vnder hjara weld. Thaet folk nêth navt ênis en nôme, thrvch vs send hja Finna hêten, hwand afskên hjara fêrsta algadur drov aend blodich send, thach send hja thêr alsa fin vp, that wi thêr bi aefter stâne,



Sandbach:
This is the history.

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland a people came out of the East. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland, they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the other came in the back of our Schoonland, which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it. Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda’s race; but, like the Egyptians, they have priests and also statues in their churches. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magiars, and their headman Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#aw


12. Is thêr aemman alsa aerg that-er sjvcht-siak fja jeftha vrdêren wêr vrsellath vr hêl god, sa mot thene maerk-rjuchtar him wêra aend tha famna him noma invr-et êlle lând.

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch, tha hja vrdrêven send aend hêinda kêmon to râwane, thâ kêm-er fon selva lândwêr hêrmanna.



Sandbach:
12. If any man should attempt to sell diseased cattle or damaged goods for sound, the market-keeper shall expel him, and the maidens shall proclaim him through the country.

In early times almost all of Finda's people lived together in their motherland, which was called Aldland, and is now submerged. They were thus far away, and we had no wars. When they were driven hitherwards, and appeared as robbers, then arose the necessity of defending ourselves, and we had armies, kings, and wars.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 April 2013 - 05:38 AM.


#3714    Abramelin

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:28 AM

Both quotes tell us the Finda were driven to Fryan territory by an unknown people.

The first quote is about this (or how I read it):

People A were driven by another people B.  Exit B.
People A fell into disputes, split up into 2 parties, A1 and A2.
A2 was never heard of again, but A1 arrived in the back of Schoonland/Skênland and settled there.
A1 were called "Finna" or "Finns" by the Fryans, and their priests were called "Magiar".
A1 was more civilized than most of the Finda, and were more like the Egyptians (based on their priests, religion, temples and statues).

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 April 2013 - 07:28 AM.


#3715    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 22 April 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

This is the post about he Minoan amber seals found in (the peat of) former Rungholt:

Linear Inscriptions in Germany

German anthropologist and cultural historian Hans Peter Duerr states that the Minoans visited the British Isles, presumably for the tin in Cornwall.  From Cornwall, the North Friesian coast, a rich source of amber, is not much farther.  Since its inundation in 1362, the “lost city” of Rungholt, on the Friesian island, Sudfall, has been a rich source of archaeological information. Under the bronze-aged peat layer were found pithoi, such as those carried aboard Minoan/Mycenaean ships during the 14th and 13th centuries BCE.  Moreover, Duerr, while visiting the Rungholt site in 1994, found in the mud some amber artefacts[1] with Lin A/B inscriptions [2].

More here:
http://www.unexplain...45#entry4408433
Good job in finding all that again.

How interesting really. I think that amber may have been so prized for a reason like this. Minoans visited the British Isles, a pretty sweeping statement. I'd believe it, if the Phoenicians had made it Gades, what would stop them going up the Atlantic coast further?
Minoans are harder to believe but if Minoan artifacts have been found there, it's likely there was at least trade at that time. The mythology of Helios is imo at least one God bought from Scandinavia into Greece.

The English word 'tin' is Germanic; related words are found in the other Germanic languages—German Zinn, Swedish tenn, Dutch tin, etc.—but not in other branches of Indo-European except by borrowing (e.g. Irish tinne). Its origin is unknown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin

We know Mycenaean amber is Baltic too.

------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't you think Atland would still be submerged, or has it risen, or dried out? I'm wondering where this submerged land is in the middle of Asia that sailors could sail to.

Edited by The Puzzler, 23 April 2013 - 07:54 AM.

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#3716    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:57 AM

Greece might have been Finno-Ugric speakers, whose language changed to Indo-European, when we hear of the language change of the Greeks, especially the Athenians.

The Finns and the Sámi maintained their separate language identity even at a time when other Uralic speakers were losing their language to the Indo-Europeans.  

Quote

The first quote is about this (or how I read it):

People A were driven by another people B.  Exit B.
People A fell into disputes, split up into 2 parties, A1 and A2.
A2 was never heard of again, but A1 arrived in the back of Schoonland/Skênland and settled there.
A1 were called "Finna" or "Finns" by the Fryans, and their priests were called "Magiar".
A1 was more civilized than most of the Finda, and were more like the Egyptians (based on their priests, religion, temples and statues).


There is argument as to whether the Finns and the Sámi “arrived in their present day locations either as a still undifferentiated ethnolinguistic group or as linguistically and ethnically separate people.

The new theory, using mitochondrial DNA testing, states that the Finns did not arrive in Sámiland only a short 3,000 years ago but rather came out of the Sámi themselves.


Except for the time frame given, you could imagine this scene in the OLB:

When adding genetic evidence to the Baltic-Finnish and the Sámi language relationship, it appears that the two groups did descend from one single genetic and linguistic population, with the Finns diverging because of Baltic and Germanic agricultural influences; however, because of the distinctness between the two groups, the common ancestor may have divided as long ago as 23,000 BP and then reunited at around 8,500 BP.  After the divergence of the Finns from the Sámi, the Sámi tended to have offspring within their own group; however, the influence from the Baltic and Germanic people caused the Finns to intermix with other Indo-Europeans, making them more genetically similar to the Europeans than the Sámi are
http://www.utexas.ed...ist/genetic.htm

I'll just end with the last paragraph of the article:

It makes sense that the Sámi should be closely tied to the Finns, if at one time they were the same group, even if this did take place many thousands of years ago. They originated from Europe but spoke a Uralic language among themselves.  However, if the most recent data is true, the two groups seem to be genetically and linguistically distinct enough to allow them to finally be studied as separate groups, so there is an illogical sense to the Sámi and Finns link as well.  So it seems that all the pieces of the Sámi puzzle have almost been put into place; however, with a history as long as theirs, pieces are always bound to be missing. For example, in Sámiland and throughout Scandinavia, there still exists an obvious residue of an even more ancient unknown language than Uralic in the region.  Many of the names of rivers and lakes have no linguistic roots. {?.} This mystery still remains to this day and may possibly never be uncovered, but one must not forget how historically wrong science had been about the history of the Sámi.  There is still a large amount on new information to be uncovered about the Sámi’s very ancient past.

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#3717    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

I do understand that if the OLB is a hoax the line would be for them to come from the East as thought, but false, and the flood to be around the Tarim Basin. This is why this is an important point for me.

For many years, there was a common belief that the Sámi may have migrated from the east and have an Asian genetic background rather than a European one.  For several hundred years, there was a belief that the Sámi and the Finns had a Mongoloid origin.  This false belief was due to linguists of the time believing that Finno-Ugric languages had an eastern origin.  It was also due to the Finns’ and Sámis’ tendency to have a phenotypic resemblance to the Mongoloids.  In actuality, these Mongoloid-like traits do not occur at a higher average rate than they would in other Northern European groups.  It merely appears this way due to the many generations that the Europeans have been farming, an activity that has caused physical features, such as high cheekbones that allow for bigger masseter muscles to chew tougher food, to reduce in size.  Though the Sámi do have some Asian genetic influence, at its highest rate it is only 20-30%, which is no higher than the European average.  {?} So with a large amount of growing evidence, it seems that the Sámi came from somewhere much closer to their current home.
http://www.utexas.ed...ist/genetic.htm

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#3718    Knul

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 April 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Both quotes tell us the Finda were driven to Fryan territory by an unknown people.

The first quote is about this (or how I read it):

People A were driven by another people B.  Exit B.
People A fell into disputes, split up into 2 parties, A1 and A2.
A2 was never heard of again, but A1 arrived in the back of Schoonland/Skênland and settled there.
A1 were called "Finna" or "Finns" by the Fryans, and their priests were called "Magiar".
A1 was more civilized than most of the Finda, and were more like the Egyptians (based on their priests, religion, temples and statues).

.

You are right that the Finns had their own Aldland, but you did not explain why the Frisians counted the years referring to a sunken Aldland, which was far away and with which they had no connection. When I read the prefaces of Hidde and Liko I understand that they speak about 'our Aldland', not about a pre-Finnish Aldland.


#3719    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 23 April 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Alsa is thju skêdnesse.

100 aend 1 jêr nêi that âldland svnken is, kêm thêr ut-et âsta en folk wêi. Thaet folk was vrdrêven thrvch en ôther folk, aefter vs twisk land krêjon hja twispalt, hja skifton hjara selva an twam hâpa, ek hêr gvng sines wêiges. Fon-t êne dêl nis nên tâl to vs ne kêmen, men thaet ôre dêl fyl aefter to vs Skênland. Skênland was sunnich bifolkath, ând anda aefter-kâd thaet sunnichste fon al. Thêrvmbe machton hja-t svnder strid wrwinna, aend uthâwede hja ôwers nên lêth ne dêdon, nildon wi thêrvr nên orloch hâ. Nw wi hjam haevon kaenna lêred, sâ willath wi ovir hjara sêda skriwa, aefternêi ho-t vs mith hjam forgungen is, Thaet folk was navt ne wild lik fêlo slachta Findas, men êlik anda Égipta-landar, hja haevath prestera lik tham aend nw hja kaerka haeve âk byldon. Tha prestera send tha engosta hêra, hja hêton hjara selva Mâgjara, hjara aller ovirste hêt Magy, hi is hâvedprester aend kêning mith ên, allet ôre folk is nul in-t siffer aend êllik aend al vnder hjara weld. Thaet folk nêth navt ênis en nôme, thrvch vs send hja Finna hêten, hwand afskên hjara fêrsta algadur drov aend blodich send, thach send hja thêr alsa fin vp, that wi thêr bi aefter stâne,



Sandbach:
This is the history.

One hundred and one years after the submersion of Aldland a people came out of the East. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland, they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the other came in the back of our Schoonland, which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it. Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda’s race; but, like the Egyptians, they have priests and also statues in their churches. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magiars, and their headman Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finns, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#aw


12. Is thêr aemman alsa aerg that-er sjvcht-siak fja jeftha vrdêren wêr vrsellath vr hêl god, sa mot thene maerk-rjuchtar him wêra aend tha famna him noma invr-et êlle lând.

In êra tyda hêmadon Findas folk mêst algadur invr hjara moders baerta-lând, mit nôma ald-lând that nw vnder-ne sê lêith; hja wêron thus fêr-of, thêrvmbe nêdon wi âk nên orloch, tha hja vrdrêven send aend hêinda kêmon to râwane, thâ kêm-er fon selva lândwêr hêrmanna.



Sandbach:
12. If any man should attempt to sell diseased cattle or damaged goods for sound, the market-keeper shall expel him, and the maidens shall proclaim him through the country.

In early times almost all of Finda's people lived together in their motherland, which was called Aldland, and is now submerged. They were thus far away, and we had no wars. When they were driven hitherwards, and appeared as robbers, then arose the necessity of defending ourselves, and we had armies, kings, and wars.


http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#ah

.

Are we all happy that this says  mothers birth land (mother land ) in tresoar the word is barta land , not (ae) and not (th)......... as it is talking about markets , is barta land another name for market , ie where you went to barter .??? is the land where the market was  the land under water ?


#3720    The Puzzler

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 23 April 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Are we all happy that this says  mothers birth land (mother land ) in tresoar the word is barta land , not (ae) and not (th)......... as it is talking about markets , is barta land another name for market , ie where you went to barter .??? is the land where the market was  the land under water ?
mothers BIRTH land.

I do not think Aldland has to be in the heart of Findasland. Alewyn makes a point (in his book, Survivors of the Great Tsunami, in case you missed his part in all this) that the priests who persecuted the Hindoos, who are Findas heartlands children, came from ANOTHER country. I have his book, I think we all do here, the original thread was based on it and he contributed to it also.

This indicates that the Magyar priests were not from this area imo but had arrived there also as they spread out.

Speaking of Alewyn, even he doesn't have it in Findas heartland. And what of Olaf Rudbeck's Atland in Sweden?

Edited by The Puzzler, 23 April 2013 - 12:44 PM.

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