902 replies to this topic

[cladking]

Here is a drawing with part of a pyramid in it and is more likely to be associated
with building pyramids than is a statue.  Of course this is related to caves under
the  pyramid as well perhaps since they obviously didn't "row" this  without water
and there's no way water got to the pyramid from the Nile.

Of course this agrees with what thje builders actually said and since they were so
highly primitive we know they must be wrong.  They said that Osiris towed the earth
in the henu boat and drew a picrture of it and then even had the temerity to bury
pyramid builders with titles like "Overseer of the Boats of Neit", and "Boat Operator".
These silly silly people then left solid evidence that they pulled the stone straight up
the side as is consistent with the rest of the evidence including carbonated water in
the Osiris Shaft today.

What were these people thinking?  They are an enigma wrapped in a mystery only
because they spoke so oddly that we can't make heads or tails of their utterances.

[mlauzon]

Imaginarynumber1, on 28 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Seriously?

Ropes, sleds, man power. Accept it. Move on.

I'm not seeing anything there that shows how the pyramids were built.

And, the Great Pyramid does not actually have a square base.

[Imaginarynumber1]

mlauzon, on 28 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

I'm not seeing anything there that shows how the pyramids were built.

The point is that they had the tech to build it.

Quote

And, the Great Pyramid does not actually have a square base.

So?

[cladking]

Imaginarynumber1, on 28 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

The point is that they had the tech to build it.

I still consider calling a ramp "technology" is a slap in the face to the builders.

And, by the by, I see no ramp on your drawing.

[Imaginarynumber1]

cladking, on 28 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I still consider calling a ramp "technology" is a slap in the face to the builders.

Well, have fun trying to redefine the definition of technology.

Quote

a : the practical application of knowledge especially in a particular area : engineering 2 <medical technology>
b : a capability given by the practical application of knowledge <a car's fuel-saving technology>

2

: a manner of accomplishing a task especially using technicalprocesses, methods, or knowledge

Quote

And, by the by, I see no ramp on your drawing.

A little common sense goes a long way.

[kmt_sesh]

cladking, on 28 December 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I didn't say ramps weren't known.  Even animals build ramps.

I said the word "ramp" is unattested before the 5th dynasty. This is no small issue.

That was the gist of my previous post. See the bolded, red portion of the quote. Provide reliable corroboration for the statement you made. Not evasion, not ramblings, but a simple and credible citation to support your statement. Otherwise, admit you just made it up.

[cladking]

kmt_sesh, on 28 December 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:

That was the gist of my previous post. See the bolded, red portion of the quote. Provide reliable corroboration for the statement you made. Not evasion, not ramblings, but a simple and credible citation to support your statement. Otherwise, admit you just made it up.

I've read virtuall;y everything they've written that survives to this day and the
word "ramp" doesn't appear.  This is simple enough a caveman can see the
word doesn't exist and I can do most things a caveman can do.

Yes, it's possible that the word appears on the few things I've not seen trans-
lations for but to my knowledge everything for which I've not seen translations
are lists and singles words on labels and the like.

I have to believe that if there existed a "God of Ramps" or an "Overseer of Stones
on Ramps" it would have been mentioned somewhere.  There simply is a void
of evidence where "ramps" should exist.  The implication is that there were no
ramps which is exactly what the physical evidence actually says.

"Ramps" and the the dragging of stones do not fit the evidence.

The Pyramid Texts says that Osiris was cool effervescent water and that he lived
in a cave on the Giza Plateau.  That said that by means of balance he made the
earth high under the sky.

There is one thing that ties ramps to Giza and that is Hawass said (1996) there were
clues to how the pyramids were built in the "caves" under Giza.  Everyone knows
ramps must have been used so something to do with ramps might exist in the Tomb
of the Birds.  Somehow I doubt it but it's constitutes a good excuse to do a little sim-
ple science.  

[kmt_sesh]

cladking, on 28 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Here is a drawing with part of a pyramid in it and is more likely to be associated
with building pyramids than is a statue.  Of course this is related to caves under
the  pyramid as well perhaps since they obviously didn't "row" this  without water
and there's no way water got to the pyramid from the Nile.

Of course this agrees with what thje builders actually said and since they were so
highly primitive we know they must be wrong.  They said that Osiris towed the earth
in the henu boat and drew a picrture of it and then even had the temerity to bury
pyramid builders with titles like "Overseer of the Boats of Neit", and "Boat Operator".
These silly silly people then left solid evidence that they pulled the stone straight up
the side as is consistent with the rest of the evidence including carbonated water in
the Osiris Shaft today.

What were these people thinking?  They are an enigma wrapped in a mystery only
because they spoke so oddly that we can't make heads or tails of their utterances.

You keep slapping up this illustration. Why, just because it has a boat in it? I wish you would take the time to learn hieroglyphs because you would then be able to avoid some of your pitfalls. This cannot have anything to do with pyramids. Note the cartouches.

This is a facsimile of a real scene dating to the reign of Ramesses III. A (rough) translation of the hieroglyphic inscription above the boat reads, from left to right:

"Words spoken by Sokar-Osiris, the great god, lord of heaven, that he provide life, strength, and dominion. The perfect god: he {Ramesses] has made this monument for Sokar. Lord of the Two Lands, Ramesses beloved of Amun; Lord of Appearances, Usermaatre Heka-iunu."

This comes from Medinet Habu, the massive mortuary temple of Ramesses III, Dynasty 20. This king lived 2,300 years after the time of Khufu. The scene depicts a shrine within the temple, dedicated to Sokar. The Henu Boat was the oracle-form unique to this god—note his flacon head protruding from the shroud at center. This boat was a small device carried by priests in processional ceremonies, including those out in public where commoners could approach the deity for oracular purposes. Such boats were common to temples, especially those dating to the New Kingdom and beyond, and processions with them are seen in numerous temple wall reliefs.

Like I said: nothing to do with pyramids. Pyramids were antiquated by the time of the New Kingdom and no longer featured in state religion. They would've been a tourist destination to Ramesses III.

[cormac mac airt]

kmt_sesh, on 29 December 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

You keep slapping up this illustration. Why, just because it has a boat in it? I wish you would take the time to learn hieroglyphs because you would then be able to avoid some of your pitfalls. This cannot have anything to do with pyramids. Note the cartouches.

This is a facsimile of a real scene dating to the reign of Ramesses III. A (rough) translation of the hieroglyphic inscription above the boat reads, from left to right:

"Words spoken by Sokar-Osiris, the great god, lord of heaven, that he provide life, strength, and dominion. The perfect god: he {Ramesses] has made this monument for Sokar. Lord of the Two Lands, Ramesses beloved of Amun; Lord of Appearances, Usermaatre Heka-iunu."

This comes from Medinet Habu, the massive mortuary temple of Ramesses III, Dynasty 20. This king lived 2,300 years after the time of Khufu. The scene depicts a shrine within the temple, dedicated to Sokar. The Henu Boat was the oracle-form unique to this god—note his flacon head protruding from the shroud at center. This boat was a small device carried by priests in processional ceremonies, including those out in public where commoners could approach the deity for oracular purposes. Such boats were common to temples, especially those dating to the New Kingdom and beyond, and processions with them are seen in numerous temple wall reliefs.

Like I said: nothing to do with pyramids. Pyramids were antiquated by the time of the New Kingdom and no longer featured in state religion. They would've been a tourist destination to Ramesses III.

Shouldn't this be 1300 years after Khufu?

cormac

[dreamland]

Everyone is wondering how pyramids were build.I have better idea.Ask yourself " how i would build it ".

[kmt_sesh]

cormac mac airt, on 29 December 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Shouldn't this be 1300 years after Khufu?

cormac

Dammit, yes. I hate it when I make stupid mistakes like that. This is what I get for posting late at night when I'm exhausted.

And how is it that you always catch these errors of mine?

Better yet, how is it, in cladking's argument, that a wall relief from a shrine in the temple of Medient Habu, dating from Dynasty 20 (yes, 1,300 years after the time of Khufu!), has something to do with Old Kingdom pyramids?

[cormac mac airt]

kmt_sesh, on 30 December 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

Dammit, yes. I hate it when I make stupid mistakes like that. This is what I get for posting late at night when I'm exhausted.

And how is it that you always catch these errors of mine?

Better yet, how is it, in cladking's argument, that a wall relief from a shrine in the temple of Medient Habu, dating from Dynasty 20 (yes, 1,300 years after the time of Khufu!), has something to do with Old Kingdom pyramids?

Just wanted to clarify the date as some may think you've listened to cladking for so long that you were moving Ramesses III's reign into the Ptolemaic Period.  

Hey, when one mangles history as badly as cladking does they can interpret it to say pretty much anything they want. I'm still laughing over this part:

Quote

Here is a drawing with part of a pyramid in it...

What he's calling part of a pyramid is sitting in a boat, on a sled.

Of course there's also this:

Quote

Of course this agrees with what the builders actually said...

Which is of course wrong as the builders, meaning the people who actually built the Great Pyramid in the 26th century, said absolutely nothing about its construction.

cormac

[cladking]

kmt_sesh, on 30 December 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

Better yet, how is it, in cladking's argument, that a wall relief from a shrine in the temple of Medient Habu, dating from Dynasty 20 (yes, 1,300 years after the time of Khufu!), has something to do with Old Kingdom pyramids?

I think people are forgetting a few vwery obvious facts.  No, it's not that this boat
has all the defining characteristics of a device to lift stones but that the Egyptians
said that the gods built the pyramids and they defined how they did so.  They said
"let this boat be brought for the "bridge girderers" of the desert".  They said that Osir-
is towed the earth in his name of Seker by means of balance and they said that Osir-
is became Seker in this boat.  They even carved these words in stone... ....where?...
...you guessed it, right into a pyramid.

I don't need to comprehend how people see ramps that aren't there and are blind
to the words, culture, and physical evidence of a five step pyramid assembled by
pulling stones up a level at a time.  All I need to do is keep seeking the proof to what
is actually rather obvious to anyone who's willling to look at the facts. The fact that
everyone is to cowardly to investigate this cave is also supportive but the important
point is that it exists.  The important point is that the news is, has been, and will con-
tinue to support thew fact that water was used to build these structures.  The import-
ant point is that the cave is still there as proof of concept even when Egyptology can't
bring itself to investigate any of the basic facts because they already know everything.

I can defend the argument far better than this but experience tells me that everyone
will simply dismiss it and instead tell me what their INTERPRETATION of the evidence
is.  When I point out that their interpretation ignores a lot of evidence they'll just claim
that evidence is a red herring and has no bearing on ramps.  Meanwhile I can under-
stand more and more of the PT and the ancient science.

Expecting something frpom 1300 years after the pyramids were built to actually reflect
reality in all ways is unreasonable.  If there were other depictions of the []nw-boat (henu
boat) I'd certainly use them but there aren't because this was a later invention.  However,
anyone can look at the more ancient art and see numerous boats built on sleds and even
boats suspended in mid-air on a column of water.

I would suggest that Egyptology simply misunderstands the entire culture.  Rather than
investigate facts they just ignore them or put gates up to make sure no ever knows.

[cladking]

cormac mac airt, on 30 December 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Which is of course wrong as the builders, meaning the people who actually built the Great Pyramid in the 26th century, said absolutely nothing about its construction.

Technically you are totally correct.

technically about the sole thing they ever said that actually survives is "Nefermaat is he
who makes his gods in words that can not be erased.". Obviously from this it's safe to deduce
they were superstitious and so primitive that the only possible means to lift a stone is to use
a ramp.  Nevermind that it's a five step pyramid and denies the possibility of ramps and virtually
proves stones were dragged up the side because "Nefermaat is hewho makes his gods in words
that can not be erased.".

I believe that it makes more sense to work with the words they actually chiseled into pyramids and
those words say that they used a henu boat to lift the stones.  The words in the cemeteries support
this and also virtually proves they did not use ramps.

So we all bask in the certainty that they mustta used ramps right up until they open this cave and
actually start doing their jobs.

[cladking]

Here's a little something a few people might find interesting;

http://www.egyptolog...sis_PTs_vs1.pdf

It's not just the forward that attracted my attention but this scholar is using my methodology
to at least a limited extent to understand the PT.  I'm not sure his work is any better than Allen's
because I have no expertise to judge it and believe Allen diverted this work from the intended
meaning.

Here's a little something a few people might find interesting;

http://www.egyptolog...sis_PTs_vs1.pdf

It's not just the forward that attracted my attention but this scholar is using my methodology
to at least a limited extent to understand the PT.  I'm not sure his work is any better than Allen's
because I have no expertise to judge it and believe Allen diverted this work from the intended
meaning.