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Intelligent people and unhappiness


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#16    ascendant606

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 08 March 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

I dont agree. Depression is a mental illness it isnt caused by a persons intelligence levels.

Answers to the above selected points -
1. Happyness and unhappyness are not real things because they have no material existance. They are simply ways of thinking with the person who suffers from depression having dark-negative thoughts. In psychology they cure depression by teaching a person correct ways of thinking and its called cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT).
2. The problem isnt how intelligent the mind is its the type of perceptions you allow yourself to have. Anybody can ground themselves in dark-negative thoughts and lead themselves into the abyss. People that do havent learnt to manage their own perceptions so they need teaching it with CBT.
3. Why the doubt? Intelligent people dont doubt themselves people who have problems in the way they think doubt themselves. You've identifed your problem as being the way you think without realising it.
4. You dont acquire happy because it has no material existance. If you try to acquire it by gaining wealth, power, love or material possessions then you'll never find it. You need to look inwards not outwards and see its the thoughts you allow yourself to have which make you unhappy. By only allowing yourself to have thoughts which make you feel good then you find happyness.

Sometimes snapping someone out of depression is hard because they are so locked into their dark-negative thoughts they cant break them. If thats you then you need to see your doctor.

I'm not actually depressed myself, and I agree with a lot of what you said. Perception does have a lot to do with whether or not people are able to find joy in their life, and my personal motto for life is that you cant be happy unless you let yourself. This goes for pretty much anything. My line of reasoning before is that "intellegent" people are more likely able to perceive things in a varity or ways, and those perceptions of the world can be negative, and like you mentioned it can be hard to break people out of those dark thoughts.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

#17    Jinxdom

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:16 AM

It's bull. People just take all of the negatives of life way to hard and waaaaay to personally then when their life does suck most of them do not even want to admit that fact and if they do are too lazy or scared to change it. People in general also have a habit of placing expectations that are unrealistic and get disappointed when they don't pan out.

I'm actually happier when I question things. That means I'm going with my nature to actually learn more about the world around me. I never lost my wonder and curiosity of the world from when I was a child, didn't let the world beat it out of me.

My problems are not depressing anymore. I see them as a real life puzzle that I need to solve. I turn my problems in to a game and compete against myself. You would be surprised at what you can accomplish and how much your life can change for the better when you do so. When I can't, I let it go. No point on lingering on things that you cannot change.

People really need to lighten up and laugh a little more even if it is at themselves.


#18    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:26 AM

View PostCRIPTIC CHAMELEON, on 08 March 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Life is how you perceive it, live it, react to it. Doesn't matter if your smart or dumb to feel happiness or sorrow its up to you how you write your own chapter in the book.
Ah a personal experience here; one of my adopted sons went through a period in his extreme youth of living on the beach with little food and nothing but salty, sandy air (this was during the American War).  Let me say that he is not too bright.  No matter what we do he cannot learn to read.  His spoken language is slow and limited.Still, people like him; he has no problem finding girlfriends (although families would not allow a marriage), he keeps a steady job as a security guard, and above all he is happy -- smiling and joking and getting drunk without getting out of hand.


#19    CRIPTIC CHAMELEON

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 09 March 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

Ah a personal experience here; one of my adopted sons went through a period in his extreme youth of living on the beach with little food and nothing but salty, sandy air (this was during the American War).  Let me say that he is not too bright.  No matter what we do he cannot learn to read.  His spoken language is slow and limited.Still, people like him; he has no problem finding girlfriends (although families would not allow a marriage), he keeps a steady job as a security guard, and above all he is happy -- smiling and joking and getting drunk without getting out of hand.
Sounds like he has found his niche in life. its a pity that some people are ignorant and wouldn't let him marry.


#20    Beany

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

View Postascendant606, on 08 March 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

I'm not actually depressed myself, and I agree with a lot of what you said. Perception does have a lot to do with whether or not people are able to find joy in their life, and my personal motto for life is that you cant be happy unless you let yourself. This goes for pretty much anything. My line of reasoning before is that "intellegent" people are more likely able to perceive things in a varity or ways, and those perceptions of the world can be negative, and like you mentioned it can be hard to break people out of those dark thoughts.
Wouldn't an intelligent person understand that their perceptions define their ability to find joy and happiness, and so consciously choose to develop and nurture positive perceptions? And wouldn't an intelligent person be aware of consequences of their actions, and so choose the action/behavior that would have positive consequences? Whereas an unintelligent person might be totally ignorant of the law of consequences or unable to learn from their mistakes, and so be continually trapped in a closed-loop circuit of misery? Anyhoo, any proof that intelligent people are less happy? That was the initial claim, put forward without any evidence to back it up.


#21    Lilly

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 01:51 AM

I know some rather dumb folks who are very unhappy. I know some rather smart folks who are very happy. And, I know the opposite as well. I suspect the happy/unhappy situation has more to do with life experiences, personality, and just plain luck.

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#22    ascendant606

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:09 AM

View PostBeany, on 09 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Wouldn't an intelligent person understand that their perceptions define their ability to find joy and happiness, and so consciously choose to develop and nurture positive perceptions? And wouldn't an intelligent person be aware of consequences of their actions, and so choose the action/behavior that would have positive consequences? Whereas an unintelligent person might be totally ignorant of the law of consequences or unable to learn from their mistakes, and so be continually trapped in a closed-loop circuit of misery? Anyhoo, any proof that intelligent people are less happy? That was the initial claim, put forward without any evidence to back it up.

Nice ideas, as for proof there is no hard evidence suggesting that intellegent people are more happy or more unhappy. This topic wasn't nessicarily to back any one side of the argument, but I am leaning twords intellegent people being less happy. Here's a quote: "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.", Ernest Hemingway

To the second part of your statement about actions and consequences, I am not disputing that point nor have I ever. You are absolustely correct

To the first part of your statement about nurturing the good, there is more bad than there is good. We preveive less things as good than we do bad. When you see all the perceptions on things, you see more bad than you see good, hence making you unhappier because you see that there is more bad than good. Although yes, you would want to nurture the good perceptions, there are so many bad ones they are impossible to ignore, and can be overwhelming. Everyone has to understand the balance of things, and if you don't you are likely to be unhappy, you cant just foucus on the good otherwise it would lead you to make foolish desicions. The two ideas you presented don't work together very well, I see what you were aiming for but unfortunatly if you only see the good and act to make the good happen, you will inadvertenly cause something bad to happen do to the fact you only focus and nurture the good.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

#23    Lilly

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:27 AM

BTW. I don't know about anyone else but the title was kind of bugging me (I fixed the spelling).

"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#24    ascendant606

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:39 AM

View PostLilly, on 10 March 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

BTW. I don't know about anyone else but the title was kind of bugging me (I fixed the spelling).

Thanks, I didn't realized I spelled it wrong.

I really wish this website had spell check

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

#25    AsteroidX

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 03:51 AM

:clap:  the funniest things happen sometimes to bring a smile to peoples faces.


#26    Beany

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

View Postascendant606, on 10 March 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Nice ideas, as for proof there is no hard evidence suggesting that intellegent people are more happy or more unhappy. This topic wasn't nessicarily to back any one side of the argument, but I am leaning twords intellegent people being less happy. Here's a quote: "Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.", Ernest Hemingway

To the second part of your statement about actions and consequences, I am not disputing that point nor have I ever. You are absolustely correct

To the first part of your statement about nurturing the good, there is more bad than there is good. We preveive less things as good than we do bad. When you see all the perceptions on things, you see more bad than you see good, hence making you unhappier because you see that there is more bad than good. Although yes, you would want to nurture the good perceptions, there are so many bad ones they are impossible to ignore, and can be overwhelming. Everyone has to understand the balance of things, and if you don't you are likely to be unhappy, you cant just foucus on the good otherwise it would lead you to make foolish desicions. The two ideas you presented don't work together very well, I see what you were aiming for but unfortunatly if you only see the good and act to make the good happen, you will inadvertenly cause something bad to happen do to the fact you only focus and nurture the good.

IMHO, it's more difficult to see the positive in our society, because we're constantly being hammered by the negative. I was asking myself the other, while listening to a news story, when did it become to popular to bash our culture without ever offering a ray of hope? It happens, I think, because criticism, finding fault is an easy option. Just point out the bad, and sit back and wait for people to agree with you. However, there are a lot of positive things happening in our communities, and a lot of positive people, but in order to see that we have to look further than the evening news. It's not as obvious, partly because acts of good are usually done without fanfare. they are done quietly, by quiet people, everyday, every moment, across the planet. But those stories would never show up on a newsfeed. Any way, I think part of being happy is to be able to have balance in one's life, and for me paying attention to goodness as well as the negative helps me achieve this.


#27    JGirl

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:32 PM

happiness is a journey not a destination.
happiness is a by product of living well and true to oneself
happiness is not a constant state, but rather a reaction to things in one's life
those who search for happiness will never find it. it always comes to you on its own.


#28    Einsteinium

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:38 AM

A very intelligent person who is unhappy needs to turn their intelligence to the problem of their own unhappiness. They would find in many cases that it was because they were accepting something as normal or as morally just that went against their own moral philosophy. An idiot who is unhappy may be unable to figure out why. A very intelligent person who is unhappy needs to take a good look at their own life, and rule out all things that they are in control of for their unhappiness. An intelligent person who accepts his/her unhappiness as a result of their intelligence is not taking into account the bigger picture, and as such perhaps they are not as intelligent as they think the are.

-Einsteinium


#29    ascendant606

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:36 AM

View PostEinsteinium, on 11 March 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

A very intelligent person who is unhappy needs to turn their intelligence to the problem of their own unhappiness. They would find in many cases that it was because they were accepting something as normal or as morally just that went against their own moral philosophy. An idiot who is unhappy may be unable to figure out why. A very intelligent person who is unhappy needs to take a good look at their own life, and rule out all things that they are in control of for their unhappiness. An intelligent person who accepts his/her unhappiness as a result of their intelligence is not taking into account the bigger picture, and as such perhaps they are not as intelligent as they think the are.

-Einsteinium

Although yes, you prove a valid point, you forget that people do not only rationalize and think logicly. We are also ruled by emotion, which in most people can be an illogical, stubborn force that overides the logical part of us. Also, I did not say that an intelligent person that is unhappy would blame their unhappiness on their intellegence. For them to do so would be, as you said, stupid in their mind. Since intelligence is something so deeply rooted in our personality and in the way we do anything, often times people do not consider it as a possible problem. It is part of us, like an arm of a leg. We can use it, grow and develop it but it is an integeral part of ouselves. We are not likely to blame our arm on our unhappiness, so we can infer that someone suffering from unhappiness would not blame it on their unhappiness.

Edited by ascendant606, 11 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

#30    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

View PostLilly, on 10 March 2013 - 02:27 AM, said:

BTW. I don't know about anyone else but the title was kind of bugging me (I fixed the spelling).
It would be wonderful if someone would fix the spelling of the Buddhism/Philosophy thread.





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