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Morphic resonance unraveling a mystery.


Alan McDougall

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I find the topic of Morphic resonance a fascinating topic, example a species of rats in New York City are trained to learn to go through a complex maze and a little while later in Australia untrained rats begin to go through the same complex maze, but without needing to learn. It is as if the new ability is somehow transferred, from New York to Australia by some sort of mystical means?

It is a new way of looking at how evolution might also work through the ages.

Alan

I am not sure exactly where to post this thread, dear moderator please move it if you feel it is posted in the incorrect sub-forum?

http://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance

Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance. Memory need not be stored in material traces inside brains, which are more like TV receivers than video recorders, tuning into influences from the past. And biological inheritance need not all be coded in the genes, or in epigenetic modifications of the genes; much of it depends on morphic resonance from previous members of the species. Thus each individual inherits a collective memory from past members of the species, and also contributes to the collective memory, affecting other members of the species in the future.

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I am a big fan of the Morphic Resonance Theory! :D

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i have never heard about this before, but i just read up about it a bit. Thanks, that was quite interesting! :)

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I find the topic of Morphic resonance a fascinating topic, example a species of rats in New York City are trained to learn to go through a complex maze and a little while later in Australia untrained rats begin to go through the same complex maze, but without needing to learn. It is as if the new ability is somehow transferred, from New York to Australia by some sort of mystical means?

I've read this claim of Sheldrakes before. Unfortunately I can't find any record of this study which does not involve him directing the reader to buy one his books. Do you have a link or reference to the original study?

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Has anyone other Sheldrake verified any of this? I've seen a few things from Sheldrake, but they never seem to be more than just his ideas.

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Wouldn't that just result in all members of the species having homogeneous knowledge and memories?

I agree. I think that teenagers, which we are or were, need to go through that phase where they understand that they do not have to do the same dumb things as everyone else and that it is okay to take advice and avoid injure or losses or scares. Why is studying algebra just as hard today as it was years ago? Why do players train for games? Why do kids have to learn how to dress themselves and make mistakes despite all of the others that have gone before them?

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Sheldrake is a notorious abuser of 'science', and has never had his 'work' repeated by real scientists - you know, ones who use proper controls and scientific methods instead of biased and horribly flawed experiments that are weighted for 'success', devoid of proper experiment design principles and full of subjective judgments and anecdotes.

He is a charlatan and fraud of the worst kind. I'd LOVE for Sheldrake to have the guts to turn up here and discuss - IN PROPER DETAIL - his experiments, how they were designed, what controls were applied and how the results were documented and collated. Also, I'd love to hear his definition, in scientifically acceptable terms, of just what Morphic Resonance is... Just try to pin him down to something testable and repeatable, and you will see just how much snake oil he covers himself with..

Go on, ask me what I really think..

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Sheldrake is a notorious abuser of 'science', and has never had his 'work' repeated by real scientists - you know, ones who use proper controls and scientific methods instead of biased and horribly flawed experiments that are weighted for 'success', devoid of proper experiment design principles and full of subjective judgments and anecdotes.

He is a charlatan and fraud of the worst kind. I'd LOVE for Sheldrake to have the guts to turn up here and discuss - IN PROPER DETAIL - his experiments, how they were designed, what controls were applied and how the results were documented and collated. Also, I'd love to hear his definition, in scientifically acceptable terms, of just what Morphic Resonance is... Just try to pin him down to something testable and repeatable, and you will see just how much snake oil he covers himself with..

Go on, ask me what I really think..

I do not agree Shadrake is a highly qualified scientist, has done a lot of research on his subject of expertise, does not sell snake oil and would put you to shame if you were ever so unlucky to try and debate science with him. In addition he does not abuse anything, science is not static and what was yesterdays science fiction or even magic often become sold proven science of today.

By your unpleasant rhetoric I really am not interested what you think, unless you can prove to me that you are a qualified scientist in your own right?

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I do not agree Shadrake is a highly qualified scientist, has done a lot of research on his subject of expertise, does not sell snake oil and would put you to shame if you were ever so unlucky to try and debate science with him. In addition he does not abuse anything, science is not static and what was yesterdays science fiction or even magic often become sold proven science of today.

By your unpleasant rhetoric I really am not interested what you think, unless you can prove to me that you are a qualified scientist in your own right?

Can you cite some of that research?

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Can you cite some of that research?

I would like to make a personal comment here, the name of this great forum is "Unexplained -mysteries" it is not a site in my opinion where one is supposed to proof scientifically any topic one brings to the forum, or needs citation on every subject. Citations are needed in pure science debate forums, not open ended forum like this one. I am not talking as a moderator and have no authority to do so, this is just my personal opinion, be it what may.

Yes read this short article and try the experiments for yourself they are fun.

Fields of the mind

http://www.sheldrake.org/Articles&Papers/papers/morphic/morphic_intro.html

http://www.sheldrake.org/participate

Fields of the mind

Morphic fields underlie our mental activity and our perceptions, and lead to a new theory of vision, as discussed in THE SENSE OF BEING STARED AT. The existence of these fields is experimentally testable through the sense of being stared at itself. There is already much evidence that this sense really exists Papers on Staring

You can take part in a staring experiment yourself through this web site. Staring Experiments

The morphic fields of social groups connect together members of the group even when they are many miles apart, and provide channels of communication through which organisms can stay in touch at a distance. They help provide an explanation for telepathy. There is now good evidence that many species of animals are telepathic, and telepathy seems to be a normal means of animal communication, as discussed in my book DOGS THAT KNOW WHEN THEIR OWNERS ARE COMING HOME. Telepathy is normal not paranormal, natural not supernatural, and is also common between people, especially people who know each other well.

In the modern world, the commonest kind of human telepathy occurs in connection with telephone calls. More than 80% of the population say they have thought of someone for no apparent reason, who then called; or that they have known who was calling before picking up the phone in a way that seems telepathic. Controlled experiments on telephone telepathy have given repeatable positive results that are highly significant statistically, as summarized in THE SENSE OF BEING STARED AT and described in detailed technical papers which you can read on this web site. Papers on Telepathy Telepathy also occurs in connection with emails, and anyone who is interested can now test how telepathic they are in the online telepathy test. Experiments Online

The morphic fields of mental activity are not confined to the insides of our heads. They extend far beyond our brain though intention and attention. We are already familiar with the idea of fields extending beyond the material objects in which they are rooted: for example magnetic fields extend beyond the surfaces of magnets; the earth’s gravitational field extends far beyond the surface of the earth, keeping the moon in its orbit; and the fields of a cell phone stretch out far beyond the phone itself. Likewise the fields of our minds extend far beyond our brains.

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Sheldrake is a notorious abuser of 'science', and has never had his 'work' repeated by real scientists - you know, ones who use proper controls and scientific methods instead of biased and horribly flawed experiments that are weighted for 'success', devoid of proper experiment design principles and full of subjective judgments and anecdotes.

He is a charlatan and fraud of the worst kind. I'd LOVE for Sheldrake to have the guts to turn up here and discuss - IN PROPER DETAIL - his experiments, how they were designed, what controls were applied and how the results were documented and collated. Also, I'd love to hear his definition, in scientifically acceptable terms, of just what Morphic Resonance is... Just try to pin him down to something testable and repeatable, and you will see just how much snake oil he covers himself with..

Go on, ask me what I really think..

I have to emphasize exactly how distasteful and "untrue this rant is" against a highly university qualified Doctor of Biology is to me, Dr Shaldrake is one of the nicest, most gentle, kind a highly intelligent person I have ever had the honor or pleasure to know, he has a great sense of humor, a lot of it directed at himself and always backs up his theories with evidence.

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I would like to make a personal comment here, the name of this great forum is "Unexplained -mysteries" it is not a site in my opinion where one is supposed to proof scientifically any topic one brings to the forum, or needs citation on every subject. Citations are needed in pure science debate forums, not open ended forum like this one. I am not talking as a moderator and have no authority to do so, this is just my personal opinion, be it what may.

It's perfectly legitimate to ask what evidence someone has for any claim. Sheldrake is a scientist - it shouldn't be too hard to cite his work.

There's a reason why his theories are considered 'fringe' and pseudoscientific. He does not provide good evidence for his claims. It's mostly anecdotal.

As I asked in my first post. Do you have the reference for the claim about maze-solving rats?

And ChrLzs had a valid point. Unless you can provide a peer-reviewed study that supports the existence of morphic fields.

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OK, Alan, I CALL.

How about you do what a real scientist would, and pick out your very best example of Sheldrake's work. Then let's all have a long hard look at the documentation and the experimental design.

I mean, I can't be fairer - I'm letting YOU pick the absolute best Sheldrake has to offer. Surely, if what you handwave is true about all this supposed evidence and his alleged skills at designing valid tests, then you'll be able to make me a laughing stock for doubting him...

So, no more handwaving, Alan - be specific and let's walk the walk. Will it be the psychic dogs perhaps? :D Yes, I'd suggest you pick your example carefully..

And before we commence, IF I can show how badly flawed the 'evidence' is, will you concede or at least consider changing your mind, or are you perhaps committed to this beyond rational thought?

BTW, real scientists WELCOME the most strenuous attacks upon their work, because either the work will stand up to it, or they realise they will have to go back, eliminate the criticisms and any issues with their work and do it properly. That's how PURE science operates (which Sheldrake frequently attacks - gee, I wonder why).

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How long should we give Alan? He's been back here, but nothing yet.. I'll be generous and offer a few days after which I will choose a Sheldrake 'masterpiece', and we shall discover just what sort of 'scientist' he is.. In the meantime I'd strongly recommend true believers have a long hard look at his Wiki and Rationalwiki..

Of course those sites, and the fact that respected journals shun his work, is all part of a huge conspiracy to suppress him and his theories, donchaknow, which is why he is allowed to post anything he likes on his own website and .... oh wait...

He could also be brave and actually engage with real researchers on a forum like this - yes I believe some sciency folk who know their stuff can be found hereabouts.... :)

Hopefully Alan, who seems to know him, might invite him over...

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I like Sheldrake, and find his theories interesting and no stranger than some of the quantum physics theories like multiple dimensions, string theory, possibilities of time travel, dark matter, etc., none of which have currently been proven, but are mostly hypotheses. I think there is something like a morphic field, probably not exactly as Sheldrake imagines it, but something similar. I and many others experience the world as everything being connected in one way or another, some people refer to this in a religious context.

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I like Sheldrake, and find his theories interesting and no stranger than some of the quantum physics theories like multiple dimensions, string theory, possibilities of time travel, dark matter, etc., none of which have currently been proven, but are mostly hypotheses. I think there is something like a morphic field, probably not exactly as Sheldrake imagines it, but something similar. I and many others experience the world as everything being connected in one way or another, some people refer to this in a religious context.

That's all fine (although the loose use of the word 'theory' is a bit troubling - it has a defined meaning in science, and 'morphic resonance' does not meet the criteria - it is not a theory)..

.. and I like Dan Brown, some folks like J.K. Rowling.. :)

The problem comes about when bad science, biased tests that are not properly controlled and collections of anecdotes are all rolled together and claimed to be evidence when they are no such thing. Sheldrake does that very, very often, and his work on this topic is NOT, I repeat NOT properly peer reviewed or published in any credible journals - and that is most certainly not because there is a conspiracy against him - it's because his work is fatally flawed, shallow, biased and lacks even the most basic of proper controls.

As I said, I will be delighted if anyone wants to nominate what they think is Sheldrake's best work, in particular anything that 'proves' this morphic resonance business, and I'll go through it to point out exactly why it is so flawed.. That is, of course, if we can even get at the full documentation. Sheldrake, like other purveyors of 'imaginative' hypotheses, has a bad habit of either not documenting his work properly, or hiding it from public scrutiny. Guess why...

So, any nominations?

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Forget about Shadrack and discuss morphic resonance!

Lets discuss the possibility that something like morphic resonance might exist, example dogs knowing when their masters are returning home, even when their owners arrive randomly?. Or the feeling that one is been watched or stared at? or somehow knowing what the next word will be from a source, such as some event on TV? Or just after when thinking of someone and the phone rings a moment after, and it is that exact person on the other end of the line? Or seeing a loved one at the end of your bed, the moment of their death thousands a miles away.

Can all these type of events all just be put down to co-incidence, or might there be a sort of mystical answer or even a scientific one, such as non-locality, instantaneous quantum entanglement or

http://cordis.europa.eu/fp7/ict/photonics/docs/factsheets/qurep-flyer_en.pdf

Quantum communication is the art of transferring a

quantum state from one place to another. Traditionally, the

sender is named Alice and the receiver Bob.

The basic

motivation is that quantum states code quantum information

- called qubits in the case of 2-dimensional Hilbert spaces

and that quantum information allows one to perform tasks

that could only be achieved far less efficiently, if at all, using

classical information. The best known example is Quantum

Key Distribution (QKD).

Quantum communication is built on a set of disruptive

concepts and technologies. It is driven by fascinating

physics and by promising applications. It requires a new

mix of competencies, from telecom engineering to

theoretical physics, from theoretical computer science to

mechanical and electronic engineering.

First applications

have already found their way into niche markets, and many

university labs are working on futuristic quantum networks,

but most of the surprises are still ahead of us. Quantum

communication, and more generally quantum information

science and technologies, are here to stay and will have a

profound impact on the 21st century

.

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It's perfectly valid to say that this phenomenon may exist.

The next stage is to look for indications that it does. Sheldrake does this. He collects anecdotes on apparently psychic dogs, people who don't eat, animals learning new skills, etc......

And that's as far as he gets.

To be able to continue any discussion on whether the phenomenon exists, we would need to see what experiments have been done. What were the results? Were they adequately controlled and the results peer reviewed? Have they been duplicated by others?

And this is where any real discussion ends. Because the above doesn't exist. When it does, we'll have something to talk about.

It might be mildly diverting to speculate. But unsubstantiated speculation is all it is.

Edited by Arbenol
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That would be a NO, then, Alan. OK, bye...

Sorry to disappoint you, Jacques, after posting that superb shot of deGrasse Tyson.. but the big fight has been called off as one contender apparently has no boxing gloves and would like to withdraw his support of Sheldrake, whose name he can't even spell now...

As for the explanation of an effect that has never been properly demonstrated, well, it's clearly quantum entanglement across multiverses via plasma through higher dimensional spatial vortices.

Those are all the cool words I could think of, and surely no-one can argue with that hypothesis........

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no disappointment whatsoever! ;) as i said, i find the concept of morphic resonance fascinating, i've had some enjoyable reads about it over the last days. But that doesn't mean that i take it any more seriously than Roswell, Astral Projection or ghosts until it gets backed up by "proper" and repeatable experiments....

And who knows, maybe there IS a yet-to-be-developed scientific explanation behind phenomena such as these. I mean, what concept did people have about gases before experiments proved their existence in the 17th century?

Personally, i do not per se dismiss ideas just because they can't be scientifically backed up RIGHT NOW. Maybe one day, they can.

As good old Albert E: once said: “If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.”

;)

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Ok whoever have couple of rats can repeat the experiment and tell us the results. The rats can be separated in two different rooms, no need for the other rat to be in Australia.

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I might add that I have a lot of theories that I'd love to tease out, that relate to the mind's phenomenal ability to cross-reference stuff, and the fact that even the minutest bit of background or close to subliminal information can be the trigger to something else. An example I've used before relates to the fact that we often ring a close friend or relative and they say "I was just about to ring you!"...

Now quite apart from the fact that they probably just said that coz they were feeling guilty.. there are literally hundreds of potential tiny triggers that could be partly responsible for such happenings, eg:

- the usual frequency with which you ring each other - as that time is exceeded, obviously the probability of a call will exponentially rise as each hour passes

- is (some aspect of) the weather similar?

- does your location remind you in some way of them, and did they know you were going there?

- is there a song playing on your joint favorite radio station (which you may have barely imperceptibly heard as some passing car went by)

- is there a TV program you both watch, on?

- is there some sort of breaking news/media story that is important to you both?

...and so on - believe me, I could make that into an enormous list, and if you add a couple together.. then of course you're both going to call!! Some of this sort of stuff is also applicable to psychic dogs {grin}, and testing it is very difficult, for the very reason that many of these triggers are incredibly difficult to think of, let alone eliminate from testing.. And of course you absolutely must NOT work on anecdotal evidence. People love to brag about this stuff happening..

I confess to being particularly amused by a picture I saw of two twins being supposedly tested for drawing things that had similarities - being connected by a morphic resonance, presumably... Well, duh, yes, two twins that have very similar brain wiring and have lived together for years probably *will* draw similar things. But what was particularly funny was they were sitting at opposite sides of a relatively small table, and a rather thin partition had been put up so they couldn't see each other's work... but they had no headphones on.. I guess the experiment designers just relied on having really really good hearing so any whispers would be impossible, of course.. And was this the first time they had been tested like that? Do you guys reckon that if it was the second or third time, that they would have come up with several ways to make the images match? If I was one of them, I know I'd be plotting how to fool the professor and get him the results he wanted...

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How long should we give Alan? He's been back here, but nothing yet.. I'll be generous and offer a few days after which I will choose a Sheldrake 'masterpiece', and we shall discover just what sort of 'scientist' he is.. In the meantime I'd strongly recommend true believers have a long hard look at his Wiki and Rationalwiki..

Of course those sites, and the fact that respected journals shun his work, is all part of a huge conspiracy to suppress him and his theories, donchaknow, which is why he is allowed to post anything he likes on his own website and .... oh wait...

He could also be brave and actually engage with real researchers on a forum like this - yes I believe some sciency folk who know their stuff can be found hereabouts.... :)

Hopefully Alan, who seems to know him, might invite him over...

I know him via internet communication, and my opinion of him remains the same.

Respected journals have been wrong in the past and have dismissed outright proposal, theories that have become proven useful science of the day . Heavier the air flight was supposedly proven impossible by a professor of science, we would never ever reach the moon, electricity was the devils magic etc.

http://www.noetic.or...phic-resonance/

Testing for Morphic Fields

There are several possible ways in which the hypothesis of morphic fields can be, and has been, investigated by experiment. Some tests attempt to detect the fields as they link together different parts of a system in space; others look for the effects of morphic resonance over time.

The easiest way to test for morphic fields directly is to work with societies of organisms. Individual animals, for example, can be separated in such a way that they cannot communicate with each other by normal sensory means. If information still travels between them, this would imply the existence of interconnections of the kind provided by morphic fields. The transfer of information through morphic fields could help provide an explanation for telepathy, which typically takes places between members of groups who share social or emotional bonds.

One promising area for this kind of research concerns telepathy between people and domesticated animals, as discussed in my book Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home.

For example, many dogs and cats seem to know when their owners are returning, even when they come at non-routine times in unfamiliar vehicles such as taxis, and when no one at home knows when they are on the way. The animals seem to be responding telepathically to their owners’ intentions.3

The unsolved problems of animal navigation, migration, and homing may also depend on invisible fields connecting the animals to their destinations.4 In effect, these could act like invisible elastic bands linking them to their homes, which serve as “attractors.”5 (In the branch of mathematics known as dynamics, attractors represent the limits toward which dynamical systems are drawn.)

Morphic Resonance in Development & Behavior

The build-up of habits can be observed experimentally only in the case of new patterns of development and of behavior.

There is already evidence from experiments on fruit flies that morphic resonance occurs in developing organisms. When fruit fly eggs were exposed to a chemical (diethylther), some of them developed abnormally, turning into flies with four wings instead of two.

When this treatment was repeated generation after generation, more and more flies developed four wings, even if their ancestors had never been exposed to the chemical.6

There is much circumstantial evidence that animal behavior can evolve rapidly as if a collective memory is building up through morphic resonance. In particular, large-scale adaptations have occurred in the behavior of domesticated animals all over the world.

One example concerns cattle guards. Ranchers throughout the American West have found that they can save money on cattle guards by using fake ones instead, consisting of stripes painted across the road. Real cattle guards are made of a series of parallel steel tubes or rails with gaps in between, which make it difficult for cattle to walk across them, and painful to try. However, present-day cattle do not usually even try to cross them. The illusory guards work just like the real ones.

When cattle approach them, they “put on brakes with all four feet,” as one rancher expressed it to me. Even calves encountering them for the first times avoid them just as much as cattle previously exposed to real guards, even if they have never seen cattle guards before.7 This aversion may well depend on morphic resonance from previous members of the species that have learned to avoid cattle guards the hard way.

There are also data from laboratory experiments on rats and other animals implying that such effects occur. In one series of experiments rats learned how to escape from a water maze. New batches of rats were tested month by month, year by year. As time went on, rats in laboratories all over the world escaped more and more quickly.8

Connections with Quantum Physics

Some physicists have been intrigued by the possible connections between morphic fields and quantum theory, including John Bell (of Bell’s theorem) and David Bohm, whose theory of the implicate order, based on the non-locality of quantum systems, turned out to be extraordinarily compatible with the idea of morphic fields.9

These connections have also been explored by the American quantum physicist Amit Goswami10 and by the German quantum physicist Hans-Peter Dürr.11

But it is still not clear exactly how morphic fields might fit in with quantum physics, if only because the implications of quantum theory for complex systems like cells and brains are still unknown.

Implications for Human Behavior & Creativity

Morphic resonance has many implications for the understanding of human learning, including the acquisition of languages. Through the collective memory on which individuals draw, and to which they contribute, it should in general be easier to learn what others have learned before.

Morphic fields could revolutionize our understanding of cultural inheritance, and the influence of the ancestors. Richard Dawkins has given the name “meme” to “units of cultural transmission,”12 and memes can be seen as cultural morphic fields. Morphic resonance also sheds new light on many religious practices, including rituals.13

The hypothesis of morphic fields has far-reaching implications in all branches of science. In particular, it points to a new understanding of the nature of the mind, which no longer needs to be seen as confined to the inside of the head.

Just as magnetic fields extend beyond the surface of a magnet, and electromagnetic fields beyond a cell phone, so the mind extends beyond the brain through mental fields. When we look at something, say a tree, the image of the tree is projected out through these fields to the place where the tree actually is.

Our minds touch what we are looking at. This provides an explanation for our ability to sense when someone is looking at us from behind. There is now much evidence for the reality of this sense, discussed in my recent book The Sense of Being Stared At, And Other Aspects of the Extended Mind.14

But the hypothesis of morphic fields has an inherent limitation. It helps explain how patterns of organization are repeated; but it does not explain how they come into being in the first place. It leaves open the question of evolutionary creativity. This hypothesis is compatible with several different theories of creativity, ranging from the idea that all novelty is a matter of chance, to explanations in terms of divine creative power.15 Evolution, like our own lives, is an interplay between habit and creativity.

Edited by Alan McDougall
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