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UFO spotted over Denver


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#61    synchronomy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

A bird has wings.  There were no bugs around that day that we noticed.  It's the temperate northern hemisphere not the sub-tropics.
Because you didn't notice bugs, doesn't mean you can exclude that possibility.
Depending on the viewing angle and position of their wings, birds could appear just as a dark spot like that.
Songbirds, for instance, do the flutter/fold technique, where often their wings are completely against their body as if at rest.
I live in the Northern Hemisphere, currently at night it is frequently below freezing.  Last night was no exception, and when I went outside this morning, there are still flies making an appearance.
I'm not saying your photos are definately bugs or birds, I feel that has to be considered as a possibility.
I don't believe you can discount that.

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#62    Coffey

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

View PostThe Sky Scanner, on 10 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

Isn't this the same aviation expert that had his license revoked for lying?

Also, he flew planes and gave training seminars (from what little i've read), how does that make him an expert in video analysis? ...because tbh, unless he can analyse that video in order to determine distances, size, speed etc, then i'm not sure his opinion is any more credible then yours or mine.

Well if what you are saying is true then obviously his opinion is worthless.

The news team did record the objects with their own equipment as well. So that kinda proves they are real. (real as in not a manipulated video) That depends on how much you trust Fox news though.

View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

A bird has wings.  There were no bugs around that day that we noticed.  It's the temperate northern hemisphere not the sub-tropics.

In fairness I seen a wasp 4 days ago and a huge blue bottle 2 days ago... It's absolutely freezing here just now (East of England)

Edited by Coffey, 10 November 2012 - 03:03 PM.

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#63    booNyzarC

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

Someone tell me that the bugs this falcon is catching don't look anything like the OP video...





In particular, from about the 26 second mark...


#64    bee

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:30 PM

.

I can't tell you that....and nice footage of the bird as well......


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#65    booNyzarC

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:48 PM

Here's some more.  Pretty dull, but if you jump to the 1:30 mark or so and watch until about 2:00, you can see several examples of how fruit flies look in footage like this.




#66    synchronomy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 10 November 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Someone tell me that the bugs this falcon is catching don't look anything like the OP video...

In particular, from about the 26 second mark...
Learn something every day.  I din't know falcons bothered to eat bugs.  Makes sense tho' highly nutritious and a low-risk meal.

Incredibly skill.
I have trouble nailing a stationary fly with a newspaper.

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#67    Coffey

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostbooNyzarC, on 10 November 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Someone tell me that the bugs this falcon is catching don't look anything like the OP video...





In particular, from about the 26 second mark...


Yeah that looks identical.

So obviously just filming insects, Fox news filmed them as well and the "aviation expert" is an idiot and fraud.

Case closed then.

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#68    zoser

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostThe Sky Scanner, on 10 November 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:


Isn't this the same aviation expert that had his license revoked for lying?


Is it?  Validation is everything.  Lying about what?  His tax bill?  This is ufology and he is giving evidence as an expert witness.

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#69    zoser

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

View PostCoffey, on 10 November 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Well if what you are saying is true then obviously his opinion is worthless.

The news team did record the objects with their own equipment as well. So that kinda proves they are real. (real as in not a manipulated video) That depends on how much you trust Fox news though.

In fairness I seen a wasp 4 days ago and a huge blue bottle 2 days ago... It's absolutely freezing here just now (East of England)

Yes people seem to think that we all live in the subtropics and Sark for example is swarming with bugs.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I don't know what region of the planet they are describing but the UK just is not like that at this time of year.

Scotland has more than is fair share of mosquito's in a similar way to say parts of Canada even Alaska in Summer.  Not so with other parts of the UK.

Edited by zoser, 10 November 2012 - 04:29 PM.

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#70    booNyzarC

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:31 PM

View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

A bird has wings.  There were no bugs around that day that we noticed.  It's the temperate northern hemisphere not the sub-tropics.

Insects are an important and abundant part of most ecosystems in temperate regions.  This is true year round, but they are more active and prevalent in the warmer seasons.  From your photographs we can tell that it was a beautiful day, the sun was out, you were in an area near the ocean with a lot of fields, farmhouses with livestock.  Whether you noticed any bugs or not, I guarantee you that there were a lot there.



View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Just let me put in few more little points in response to my critics:

For a start more damage has been done to put and an end to threads in the way of rubbishing the OP with cynicism, ridicule or school boy banter than I could ever manage to do by uploading a few pictures with black objects on them.

Those people know who they are; it doesn't need me to point out what is plainly obvious.

If a thread takes on a slightly different turn with other material that needs investigating, then so be it.  I won't be put off by cynics shouting out 'bugs' for one minute.  That may well satisfy them but it will never satisfy me.

Pointing out that footage and/or photographs look like insects is not cynicism, it is merely the observation of identifiable traits which are characteristic of how insects appear in such media.  Whether you recognize the similarities or not does nothing to remove those similarities.  I suggest that you actively seek out footage which has flying insects in it for your own comparative analysis.  I've provided a couple, but you can literally find this kind of thing in many outdoor videos and pictures.  Bugs are everywhere, we just ignore them most of the time unless they become a personal nuisance or are swarming en masse.



View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Just because there isn't an object in the picture that looks like the size of the Enterprise does not make the object any less interesting from a UFO point of view.  If anyone has the wit to look at the trends in ufology over the last 10 years I would have thought they would have realised that objects that are being seen are smaller in size these days.

I'm sure with a bit of personal adding up that one could have reached that conclusion; but that's for them.  The object in the Denver video is one such good example.


The other thing that is blatantly obvious is that as soon as a case presents itself for which there is no explanation one of two things happen:  The skeptics refrain from posting altogether, as though affected by some mass walk out, or they post ridiculing graphics or similar cynical remarks.

I stand against that.

I value anyone who presents interesting and original cases, easily explainable or otherwise, because we all learn.  

We know that you are passionate about this subject zoser, and I both admire and respect that intense interest.  You may not realize it, but we of a more skeptical bent are just as interested in the UFO phenomena as you are.  It is a fascinating topic and covers a wide range of subjects.

You mark yourself as a 'warrior of truth' and have on multiple occasions communicated to the forum that you essentially consider yourself to be on a crusade of sorts to champion witnesses.  A true warrior of truth would not be afraid to acknowledge the possibility of prosaic explanations.  A true warrior of truth must be open to any possibility, and must not jump prematurely to any conclusions.  A true warrior of truth applies critical scrutiny to every claim, whether the claim is supernatural, extraterrestrial, or prosaic, and realizes that "we can't be sure" means literally that we cannot arbitrarily ascribe our preferred answer to the question.

At best, these UFO cases result in "we can't be sure" though many of them can be explained with a very high level of confidence; like these photographs and videos which look exactly like insects for example.  Even if we reduce, in our own minds, the weight of explanations like this, we still arrive only at "we can't be sure."



View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

So the challenge is still there I'm afraid; no the Denver object is not a bug, neither is the anomaly on the Sark photos and to try and dismiss the case as easily as that is not doing justice to the OP or indeed the subject.

So in my adding up there are at last two cases that stand proud as unexplained smoking gun type evidence:

The Denver Case and the Denbigh case in Wales of Jan 2012 (see TT thread).

No matter how many times you, some self proclaimed aviation expert, newscasters, or any one else declares "it is not a bug" will not ever change the fact that the footage in question looks exactly like insects.  Nor will it change the fact that your Sark photos look exactly like insects.  Tiny little blurry out of focus insects.  A true warrior of truth would recognize this and at least admit that it is possible, even if you weren't as confident about the conclusion as I am.



View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

This forum really is starting to get interesting.

Be back in a few hours.

z

See you when you get back zoser.

Cheers. :)


#71    zoser

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostCoffey, on 10 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Yeah that looks identical.

So obviously just filming insects, Fox news filmed them as well and the "aviation expert" is an idiot and fraud.

Case closed then.

It's probably that they have come face to face with something unexplainable; it's not the first time.  Expect teddy bears to be thrown all over the place.

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#72    bee

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:39 PM

View PostCoffey, on 10 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Yeah that looks identical.

So obviously just filming insects, Fox news filmed them as well and the "aviation expert" is an idiot and fraud.

Case closed then.

LOL Coffey....I think you put it in a nutshell

but the real mystery is why this video would be promoted like it has been on TV etc..... :huh:

Maybe it was to get the American Veteran's Day Sale more publicity... :lol:


#73    booNyzarC

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostCoffey, on 10 November 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Yeah that looks identical.

So obviously just filming insects, Fox news filmed them as well and the "aviation expert" is an idiot and fraud.

Case closed then.

I'm going to assume that this isn't sarcasm.  If it is sarcasm as zoser seems to believe, please clarify.



View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's probably that they have come face to face with something unexplainable; it's not the first time.  Expect teddy bears to be thrown all over the place.

No, it is because we have come face to face with something that looks exactly like how insects appear in film.


#74    synchronomy

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's probably that they have come face to face with something unexplainable; it's not the first time.  Expect teddy bears to be thrown all over the place.
Just for the record.
I watched the Fox News segment about the Denver UFO.  I don't think it's an insect or a bird.
Zoser...your pictures, are likely birds, and possibly, but not so likely insects.

Is anyone aware or any follow-up on this Denver sighting?...because IMHO the Fox News report is inconclusive.
Honestly, if I lived there I'd be taking 2-3 days vacation from work to get some serious photography done.

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This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#75    bee

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:41 PM

View Postzoser, on 10 November 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

  Expect teddy bears to be thrown all over the place.


:D

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