The Forgiveness thread

[Irish]

The single hardest spiritual lesson a human can learn, is to master is the art of forgiveness. Expressed within all major religions it is a concept that frees the forgiver from anger and resentment which leads to hatred the most destructive of all emotions. Hatred is the cancer of the soul and only serves to destroy those that chose to succumb to it.

From Wikipedia,

Forgiveness is the mental and/or spiritual process of ceasing to feel resentment or anger against another person for a perceived offence, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution. Forgiveness may be considered simply in terms of the feelings of the person who forgives, or in terms of the relationship between the forgiver and the person forgiven. In some contexts, it may be granted without any expectation of compensation, and without any response on the part of the offender (for example, one may forgive a person who is dead). In practical terms, it may be necessary for the offender to offer some form of apology or restitution, or even just ask for forgiveness, in order for the wronged person to believe they are able to forgive.

Christianity

If you were to describe Christianity in one word, that word would be Forgiveness; According to traditional Christian teachings, the forgiveness of others is amongst the spiritual duties of the Christian believer. God is generally considered to be the original source of all forgiveness, which is made possible through the suffering and sacrifice of Jesus, and is freely available to the repentant believer. As a response to God's forgiveness, the Christian believer is in turn expected to learn how to forgive others; some would teach that the forgiveness of others is a necessary part of receiving forgiveness ourselves. The person who is forgiven is not necessarily released from any obligation to make material or financial amends.

Buddhism

In Buddhism, forgiveness is seen as a practice to prevent harmful emotions from causing havoc on one’s mental well-being. Buddhism recognizes that feelings of hatred and ill-will leave a lasting effect on our mind karma and instead encourages the cultivation of emotions which leave a wholesome effect. "In contemplating the law of karma, we realize that it is not a matter of seeking revenge but of practicing metta and forgiveness, for the victimizer is, truly, the most unfortunate of all.

Islam

The word Islam is derived from the Semitic word: slm, meaning peace. Clearly forgiveness is a prerequisite for any true or genuine peace. Islam teaches that God Allah in Arabic is 'the most forgiving', and is the original source of all forgiveness. Forgiveness often requires the repentance of those being forgiven. Depending on the type of wrong committed, forgiveness can come either directly from Allah, or from one's fellow man. In the case of divine forgiveness, the asking for divine forgiveness via repentance is important. In the case of human forgiveness, it is important to both forgive, and to be forgiven.

Judaism

In Judaism, if a person harms one, but then sincerely and honestly apologizes to the wronged individual and tries to rectify the wrong, the wronged individual is religiously required to grant forgiveness:” It is forbidden to be obdurate and not allow yourself to be appeased. On the contrary, one should be easily pacified and find it difficult to become angry. When asked by an offender for forgiveness, one should forgive with a sincere mind and a willing spirit . . . forgiveness is natural to the seed of Israel. (Mishneh Torah, Teshuvah 2:10) But if the wrongdoer does not apologize, there is no religious obligation to grant forgiveness. This is because Judaism is focused on the personal responsibility of the wrongdoer. It is the wrongdoer's responsibility to recognize their wrongdoing and to seek forgiveness from those who have been harmed.

Studies show that people who forgive are happier and healthier than those who hold resentments. One study has shown that the positive benefit of forgiveness is similar whether it was based upon religious or secular counseling as opposed to a control group that received no forgiveness counseling.

Source

The purpose of this thread is to give recognition to the art of forgiveness. Tell us what you think is the greatest act of forgiveness that you have witnessed or heard of and why you think it is such. Have you had the opportunity to forgive someone and how did you benefit from its healing quality’s?

Irish

[rhyknow]

Personally, i beleive that the act of forgiveness stems from Love... If you did not love someone... You would not forgive them... but that's just my opinion

[Irish]

Personally, i beleive that the act of forgiveness stems from Love... If you did not love someone... You would not forgive them... but that's just my opinion

It certainly is easier to forgive if you love someone already. But forgiveness breaches all area of human contact from the paper boy who takes out your porch light to the drug addict that mugs you in the park.

Irish

[IamsSon]

Great post Irish.

If you stop to think about it, not forgiving someone may have little or no effect on them. Especially if the person is unaware that they have harmed someone else. I have been part of many conversations where one person finally forgave another. The forgiver felt a weight lift off their shoulder and the forgiven person's only reaction was, one of incedulity or confusion, "I hurt you? When did I hurt you?" The person who forgave was nonetheless still much better off emotionally.

I have also been in stuations when someone who had full knowledge of having hurt someone asked for and was given forgiveness and it was obvious, even in the extreme cases that the forgiver was left feeling at least as refreshed as the forgiven, and their relationship was not only restored, but actually deeper, due to the fact they now both knew the relationship was more important than pride.

I have only witnessed one instance when one of my friends asked another for forgiveness and the other refused to forgive. That relationship was destroyed. the interesting thing is that my friend who asked for forgiveness has moved on and is living life, while my friend who could not forgive is still (2 years later) stuck on that event. It comes up in almost every conversation we have.

[GreyWeather]

hm, by nature I'm a forgiving person - for example; if I were to get into an argument or fight, after a couple hours I'll be friends with them again. But although I'm like that, I can hold grudges for years.

I've also learned that people should never be forgiven in some instances, so I don't pretend to forgive them. Though at times I lean towards the "forgiven but not forgotten" moto. That way if they do anything of the like again, I let myself have my play.

[Wookie McFly]

Perhaps the greatest story of forgiveness I can think of involves the KKK killing of a black teenager.

While on trial, the two men who killed the boy broke down while walking back to their seats after testifying, falling to their knees in front of the boys mother begging for her forgiveness.

The woman looked at them and slowly said "Son, I've already forgiven you."

That takes a very large soul to do. Obviously, that was the shortened version of the story, but you get the picture.

Good thread Irish, nice to see a good topic on the forums again.

--Marty

[Irish]

Thanks to those who have contributed so far, I feel this is a very important subject that never gets discussion and is just taken for granted.

As iamson pointed out those who do not develop the art of forgiveness often become stuck in the event of the time and never move on with their lives. How often do we hear the excuses for bad behaviors as “his mother used to beat him”, “no one understands him/her”, “he was brought up in an impoverished neighborhood”,”no one gave him a chance”.

Those that succeed in life forgive the past and embrace the future. Those that embrace bitterness and hate stagnate within the cell they create through lack of forgiveness.

To forget is human, to forgive is Devine. Forgiving ourselves for our shortfalls and mistakes is just as important as the forgiveness of others. As well as asking the forgiveness from others we have offended.

As in the Lords prayers “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us”.

To forgive is to offer healing and receive it at the same time.

Irish

[+Sherapy]

Wonderful subject Irish...I have found the quality forgiveness to be inherent and a wonderful tool, i have had to use it in my life, (a childhood of severe abuse, my sisters murder and my best friends suicide ) without it the door to healing would of not been open, merely by my own ignorance and to my own detriment, repressed anger only leads to a resentful and miserable existance..What most overlook is forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves, and the searching for meaning of it always perplexed me, it becomes obvious the useful healing gift immediately after use LOL and its something we do for ourselves, most who have used it have this awareness...

I have never had a problem forgiving,, or would ever choose not to that would be absurd i'd only lead myself to misery....its as natural as the air i breathe... it has only lead to creating a path to healing and its in all of us and available at any time as much as needed......I would truly reccommend a physcology course for anyone it will teach one about the self..there is no greater gift then the gift of self awareness, and self understanding..Many systems point us away from this and really its truly one's salvation..I'd say just have the willingness to forgive, you need do nothing else , it will do the rest...From one who knows...

Edited September 7, 2006 by Sympa Sheri

[Beggars]

Personally, i beleive that the act of forgiveness stems from Love... If you did not love someone... You would not forgive them... but that's just my opinion

i agree with that post 100%,i can't forgive someone if i don't love them or like them

[Kismit]

I believe forgivness stems from understanding. And understanding is the basis of love.

After a very nasty accident last year which put my children in danger and nearly killed my husband and myself, we had to dig deep to forgive the lady responsible for causing it. I didn't and still don't love her, but I understand that she did not do it on purpose, was not drinking and in most ways is a normal healthy and caring person who would not want to have ever been responsible for the damage she caused. I also understand that she never intended to cause us harm, and her only mistake was a brief lapse in concentration. Something everyone who has driven a vehicle is undoubtedly guilty of.

Good topic Irish, forgiveness and the act of forgiving is not easy and makes a very welcome discussion.

[kimberly4748]

My uncle was murdered in cold blood. His murder was set free. It was really hard for my family. As a little girl i remember my mother saying i forgive him for what he has done. At first i did not understand why my mother would for give this man who murdered her bother. Then she told me that she needed to forgive him, because it was out of her hands. It was in gods hands now. She took her sorrow and handed it to god. Later i understood what she had ment. I have forgiven this man for taking away my uncle for it is not my place to judge him. There is only one person he will have to answer to. You feel up lifted. a calmness about yourself when you stop caring this anger around with you.

[MadMachine]

If someone really wronged me, I'd forgive them if they were sorry and promised they wouldn't do something like that again to me or someone else. Not many chances in my mind though, if they continue to wrong people in such a way, they will no longer be forgiven by me.

Also, do bible-believers truly forgive those that have very deeply wronged and scarred them, knowing that this person would shamelessly do it again to someone else? Or do they just take comfort in believing that "God will deal with them," and feel as if that's what true forgiveness is?

[Falco Rex]

Believe it or not; although I spend a lot of time spitting vitriol and fire; I can forgive many people many things..

And Irish was right it's easy to forgive somebody if you love them. At least in comparison to those you could care less about.

Somehow I've managed to do that in some cases though..

Perhaps God is a perfect being; but frankly I am not.

For each person I forgive unconditionally there's another I'd cheerfully see die..

But I'm an intrinsically flawed being and I recognize that; so I try to focus on those I have been able to forgive and draw new strength from that..

I guess I may not be writing anything "Good" or "Uplifting", but it's honest, folks..

I'll bet at least half of you who read this know what I mean but don't want to admit that hatred plays such a large role in thier lives..

[Irish]

Good examples of forgiveness situations Sheri, Kismit and Kimberly.

MadMachine, to answer your question I think as Christians we aspire to have the kind of forgiveness described within scripture. It is not always possible for some of us, for whatever reason, few truly have the ability of unconditional forgiveness.

Nice to hear from you Falco, it’s been awhile! I appreciate your honesty and agree we all carry a burden of resentment in the back of our minds. We must be cautious that it does not grow into hatred because hatred does not serve or enhance us in any way; it is like firing a laser beam into a mirror it only serves to destroy us mentally and spiritually.

Irish

[Grandpa Greenman]

I forgive those worthy of forgiveness. If you keep doing the same things you did to hurt me and others I will not only not forgive you but I will do worse I will pity you. The next stage is I will forget you and soon you are out of my life nothing more than a stranger on the street. You want forgiveness from this Pagan you have to earn it.

[ArgenVert]

Giving forgiveness implies that someone has commited a transgression against me and that I am holding a grudge because of that action. Although there are things that anger me, in the long run nothing really bothers me. At most I'll be upset at someone's actions, but I won't hold it against them. So I really have no reason for forgiving anyone.

Nice to hear from you Falco, it’s been awhile! I appreciate your honesty and agree we all carry a burden of resentment in the back of our minds. We must be cautious that it does not grow into hatred because hatred does not serve or enhance us in any way; it is like firing a laser beam into a mirror it only serves to destroy us mentally and spiritually.

Here, Here!! *Raises glass*

[+Sherapy]

We aren't 'giving forgiveness absolving someone of something, we forgive for ourselfs to keep us from being full of hatred which only poisons ourselves and the others close to us... and being angry for years...its a gift you give yourself a way to heal and move forward....I agree with the poster that said there is nothing to forgive except ourselves.....Forgiveness is never about another its about you....

Edited September 9, 2006 by Sympa Sheri

[hyperactive]

interesting topic.

i would agree that forgiveness is understanding.

understanding our own limitations.

understanding not everything operates by our perspectives.

understanding nothing is obligated to operate to our expectations.

i would say we are forgiving ourselves,

but what we are really doing is compensating for the difference between expectation and experience, allowing us to return to our cozy views of the world at large.

i agree we need to not hold onto "feelings of the past" but allow things to unfold. "What is past is past".

[Kazahel]

To be honest in my life I havent seen much forgiveness from anyone really other than maybe my parents. And I cant remember the last time I saw someone else forgive someone hey.. its not something you really see that much because as people have said.. you tend to only really forgive those you love, or its at a price. Like you forgive them if they say sorry or do what it is that you deem worthy of your forgiveness. This imo is not really forgiveness because they should not have to say sorry first as a 'deal' inorder to be forgiven by you because they are already forgiven by God. Of course its nice/polite if they do say sorry but it shouldnt matter.

I forgive everyone because I guess I love everyone on a certain level because I understand that they have like their Christ in them. So for me to hate them is to turn away from their Christ. Its not easy to forgive some things and I look at it as practise in time. So yes we might fire up and get angry and curse the other person for whatever in the heat of the moment but eventually there is a time where you can almost reflect on it all, and that time is imo worth trying to master to shorten I guess. So practising to shorten that time of forgiveness, which is done easier when you understand that you are like brothers. We all are. And when you remember that more you can love those deemed unlovable and forgive those that seem unforgivable, which just brings a wonderful feeling because every0ne becomes someone wonderful because there is no sin that He can do.

We can hate our brothers yes but we do it when we see that our brother can hurt us. When you see that your brother cannot hurt you he cannot, for He cannot. And you can see that your brother cannot hurt you when you try to see Him in him. No matter what his actions over Him are, He still abides in him. We forget this from the events of the world because it effects us on that level and basically our egos take over more and we start to hate our brother because they have not fitted into the 'correct' world or they have effected our world on a level deemed wrong. But God deemed him worthy of Him so to be unforgiving is to turn away from Him. And you kinda fall from grace when you turn away from Him. imo.

So to forgive someone is to turn to their Christ and not witness the sin in the first place, its not about placing yourself above Him to then forgive him. And I guess the more you remember that he is worthy of Him the easier it is to love him/forgive him, even while knowing your brothers ego may hurt yours with further intent. And with time and practise of forgiveness is forgiveness made easier for harder things that come up in life.

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing... so why limit it.

Edited September 10, 2006 by Kazahel

[Irish]

One thing that keeps coming up here is interesting, a lot of people base forgiveness on understanding and love. Yet there are clearly times of forgiveness that make no sense at all. As in Marty Floyd’s example of the KKK killers, I am sure that the mother of the victim had no love for the accused nor could she fathom to understand that kind of evil existing in human form, yet she had already forgiven the two accused before they asked her for forgiveness.

She recognized a tiny bit of decency in the individuals and by her forgiveness she nurtured that seed of goodness in them.

Irish

[Never_Hit_Nirvana]

Call me cruel, but I am very unforgiving.

Burn me once and that's it.

Gave one second chance in my life and it was the worst mistake I ever made.

And I don't expect forgiveness from others.

Frankly, there is too much forgiveness in America.

We jail a armed robber, he does his time, gets out and holds up a liquor store ten minutes later.

I am all for kindness and generosity, perhaps even forgiveness if the person appears truly remorseful and changes (something I have yet to see), but we take it to extremes and that, I think causes most of our problems as a society.

[hyperactive]

but nirvana...

you are projecting YOUR expectations upon another and when his/her actions don't match your expectations you are then judging. Forgiveness is service of the ego. If one accepts everything for what it is, then there forgiveness is not even a concept, for there is never anything to forgive.

[Irish]

Call me cruel, but I am very unforgiving.

Burn me once and that's it.

Gave one second chance in my life and it was the worst mistake I ever made.

And I don't expect forgiveness from others.

Frankly, there is too much forgiveness in America.

We jail a armed robber, he does his time, gets out and holds up a liquor store ten minutes later.

I am all for kindness and generosity, perhaps even forgiveness if the person appears truly remorseful and changes (something I have yet to see), but we take it to extremes and that, I think causes most of our problems as a society.

Hi ya Cruel

I understand were you are coming from, but we receive what we give. Call it ying and yang, Karma or whatever you like. If our actions and reactions are the same as those that do harm to society we become them. It is in choosing the higher road that separates us from them. I personally have been burnt many times from trusting to much yet taking that chance often I am rewarded by witnessing true and positive changes in people and I become more fire retardant as I age. I can be burnt but not toasted.

Irish

[Never_Hit_Nirvana]

Hi ya Cruel

I understand were you are coming from, but we receive what we give. Call it ying and yang, Karma or whatever you like. If our actions and reactions are the same as those that do harm to society we become them. It is in choosing the higher road that separates us from them. I personally have been burnt many times from trusting to much yet taking that chance often I am rewarded by witnessing true and positive changes in people and I become more fire retardant as I age. I can be burnt but not toasted.

Irish

Like I have said, I have only given one second chance in my life and it was a mistake.

But I learn from watching others:

My wife's aunt forgave and believed her abusive husband when he said he had changed. She now has three broken ribs courtesy of a baseball bat to the side as "punishment."

A friend of mine forgave his nephew for his drug use, even set his nephew up in business selling cars when the young man got out of prison. My friend is now deeply in debt, the business is closed and his nephew is back in jail.

Another friend of mine took his wife back a little over a year ago, when she said she would change her cheating ways. They are both white, but oddly enough the baby she had last week looks amazingly interracial.

I am all for Karma, Irish, but I look at it like this: The knowledge that my actions will effect what I get back, and my understanding that forgiveness is not an option will lead me to take more care not to screw up in the first place.

And I hold others around me to no lower standard than I hold myself. It is not hard to behave, and those that don't, won't; change is exceedingly rare, in my experience, and not to be expected even 5% of the time.

[Celumnaz]

No good deed goes unpunished.