591 replies to this topic

[shadowhive]

Paranoid Android, on 24 February 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Borderline twisted that I enjoy my life???  Seriously, you want to go down that path???

Not twisted that you enjoy life, but that dwelling on god seems to permeate everything and you considered it good. Almsot like an addiction really.

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As I said, I'm simply sharing what the Bible says.  Believe or don't believe the Bible, I honestly do not care at this point.  You just won't accept that the Bible says "x" and demand that the Bible says "y" instead for no apparent reason.

No, I just won't accept that something is meant to be loving and want a relationship yet has purposely made a relationship hard. If he'd not sent his son to die a relationship would have been in possible. And even then it seems like an unecesssary waste of a life and a convoluted answer to it.

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And a church provides such an avenue.  Hence my religion has helped me in this regard.  Which IS what the question was about, was it not?

And most people can find such an avenue easily without it.

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So because you and I find great joy in our respective world views, why is it "odd" to you that my life is enriched because of my belief in God.

It's odd that your life is 'enriched' by god. You act lie your life before you found god (and by extension any non-christians) must be terrible because you didn't have this... strange connection with this other entity, an entity that you've allowed to have a real hold on your life. I fail to see how allowing something to have such a hold is considered a good thing.

[shadowhive]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 24 February 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

If you follow laws legalistically, yes, it is constraining and does hold you back. However that is not the Christian message. In fact it's reversed. Jesus came to set us free from the bondage of sin. We chose not to follow the sin nature because it traps us, tortures us, and brings pain to ourselves and the ones around you. There is no sin you can commit that God has not forgiven us for, and due to Christ's sacrifice on the cross we are free from it. The only sin we can commit that can hurt us is the rejection of Christ's love.

All forms of narcotics tie us down into addiction, unhealthy sexuality can tie us down to addiction. Apathy as opposed to love, forgiveness as opposed to vengence, eternal life as opposed to temporary, connection as opposed to seperation... How is this freedom and love as opposed to the other?

I want nothing to do with sin. And I don't fear God or agonize over guilt if I do sin. That is true freedom my friend...

I've seen a lot of people follow the laws legalistically. I've seen more try and force others to follow certain laws too (often using very underhand ways to do so). Obviouly Jesus did quite a bad job 'freeing' people from sin, due to the sheer volume of christians following it legalistically, forcing others to follow it and giving it any focus whatsoever.

If the only 'sin' we can make is rejecting god's love, than why are the rest even there?

are narcotics even covered in the bible? 'Unhealthy' sexuality depends on what you mean. If it's rape, than I'd agree that it's wrong but if it's consentual sex between two people I'd diagree and do so strongly. Apathy is better than love? Really? i don't see how doing what god wants and dwelling on him all the time is 'freedom'. It sounds more like slavery.

I want nothing to do with a god that's so obsessed with labelling almost every thought, feeling and action we do a sin. Being associated with such a thing doesn't sound like freedom.

[Paranoid Android]

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Not twisted that you enjoy life, but that dwelling on god seems to permeate everything and you considered it good. Almsot like an addiction really.

Why is that wrong???

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

No, I just won't accept that something is meant to be loving and want a relationship yet has purposely made a relationship hard. If he'd not sent his son to die a relationship would have been in possible. And even then it seems like an unecesssary waste of a life and a convoluted answer to it.

All I'm saying is that we are made to have a specific relationship with God.

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

And most people can find such an avenue easily without it.

Can they?

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's odd that your life is 'enriched' by god. You act lie your life before you found god (and by extension any non-christians) must be terrible because you didn't have this... strange connection with this other entity, an entity that you've allowed to have a real hold on your life. I fail to see how allowing something to have such a hold is considered a good thing.

So we disagree in our outlook, not surprising.... Why would I NOT find favour with God???

[shadowhive]

Paranoid Android, on 24 February 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Why is that wrong???

I guess you don't understand and I can't seem to put it into words in a way that you can. Needless to say I don't think thinking 'god is great' 24/7 (and thinking about sin 24/7) can be a good thing.

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All I'm saying is that we are made to have a specific relationship with God.

Says your religion. And also that specific relationship doesn't come off as a particularly good one.

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Can they?

Yes. Like I said people have this thing, they're called friends. Now good friends wil llisten to your problems and actually care about how you are and what you have to say. are you really trying to act like those things don't exist?

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So we disagree in our outlook, not surprising.... Why would I NOT find favour with God???

it isn't surprisiing I suppose. Do you think it's healthy to want god's favor all the time?

[HavocWing]

Paranoid Android, on 24 February 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

Noticed that, have you.  Is it annoying you?  I was intentionally not answering because I hate one-sided conversations.  You made a comment about Love and when I answered you, you ignored my answer and skipped to an entirely different matter.  It's a tactic you often employ, whether you realise it or not - a hit-and-run strategy where you post some random anti-Bible comment (such as the Histrionic Personality Disorder, or in the past your comments on narcissism, being just one example).  You never engage in two-way debate on it, you post and then you leave it.  So if you aren't going to answer my questions, why should I answer yours?

~ PA

I think you are trying to project what I said about god onto me, about him being one sided.

[Paranoid Android]

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

I guess you don't understand and I can't seem to put it into words in a way that you can. Needless to say I don't think thinking 'god is great' 24/7 (and thinking about sin 24/7) can be a good thing.

I find thinking "God is great" 24/7 to be a great thing.

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Says your religion. And also that specific relationship doesn't come off as a particularly good one.

It's worked well enough for me.

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Yes. Like I said people have this thing, they're called friends. Now good friends wil llisten to your problems and actually care about how you are and what you have to say. are you really trying to act like those things don't exist?

I have friends outside of church.  It's been my experience that on the whole they don't want to know my problems with the same regularity and depth that my church friends do.  The reverse is also true, the people at church let me know their problems far more easily than my non-church friends.

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

it isn't surprisiing I suppose. Do you think it's healthy to want god's favor all the time?

I said it above, but it's worked well enough for me for the past 13 years.

HavocWing, on 24 February 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

I think you are trying to project what I said about god onto me, about him being one sided.

I'm sharing an observation, you haven't answered any of my questions, so I haven't answered any of yours.  I hate one-sided conversations.

[maxhobbs]

If the bible was written today as a movie, it would get a one star rating from "christians".

[Sherapy]

Paranoid Android, on 24 February 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

What can I say, I love my life.  I love the people in it, I love going out and living it.  I love God, and that enriches me in ways I cannot fully express in words.  Sin doesn't cast a shadow over that.  You see, I WANT to follow God, I WANT to please him.  My desire to dwell on what God wants is not a chore as you seem to think it, it is a joy, a pleasure.


As I said, this would be a point of contention.


Because your points have no grounding in the Bible.  Arguing that God doesn't want a relationship with us is absurd, based on the fact that God bends over backwards to ensure we can have a relationship with him.


First, the obvious - a support network of caring and loving people who aren't afraid to ask the tough questions.  The people at church are not just superficially interested in my life (nor am I superficially interested in theirs).  If I go to the pub and someone says, "hey, how was your week".  I'd say, "great, work was fine, had a run-in with the boss, but I'm good".  Most people who ask that question expect a short answer like this.  At church the people, especially those who are mature in their faith, expect a deeper sharing, so I may share deeper - a specific incident or two at work, perhaps a comment on my home life (the guys at the pub don't generally want me talking about my father who passed away two months back, people at church encourage it).

Second, through my church group I have had the opportunity to do things for others that I would never have had the chance to do otherwise.  I went Christmas carolling a few years back at the local palliative care unit, it was an eye-opening experience having the chance to bring Christmas to those who are at the very ends of their life and suffering, many broke down in tears as they thought back on all their Christmas memories and realising that they almost definitely won't be around for another Christmas.

Third, I mentioned this one briefly earlier in this post, and I can't really fully express it in words, but my love for God enriches me in many ways.  I wake up troubled, I pray and the troubles may or may not be gone but they are certainly lessened.  My very belief brings a great joy in me, something I never had when I was a non-Christian.  As I said, I can't explain this properly, but it is what it is.

These are three examples of what I have receive from my faith.

~ Regards,

Pa,

Love is integral to relationships, it is the aspect of a relationship that is based in equalty, this love inspires growth in the direction of what is "best" for each person based on the idea that both people are whole to begin with. That both people understand/take  responsiblity for their own happiness and behaviors(for a child this would be based in where they are at in their understanding.)


As far as parenting is concerned, to offer a safe viable solution for a teething child in and of itself is the seeking of what is best for the child.Just being a parent we have committed to certain things ( patience,self responsibility, telling the truth/being dedicated to reality/knowing the difference, curtailing ego needs etc.) As parents we have the discipline to honor our commitments,this is the engine of love.

Edited by Sherapy, 25 February 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[jjphere]

Contradictions in the Bible? Of course there are. If it were a cooked up standard of
beliefs of some narrow religious group then it would be perfectly consistent and perfectly
one-minded.

I think that you really need not take it verse by verse, but read it as a whole document.
Read it all and give it a chance. I did and to me it is wonderful.

[scowl]

maxhobbs, on 25 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

If the bible was written today as a movie, it would get a one star rating from "christians".

I believe it would be hotly protested by Christians. They would claim that it unfairly shows God as a cruel, uncaring and ruthless monster who used humans as toys. They want people to see the sweet caring God of the New Testament, not the murderous and punishing God of the Old Testament. Sometime between the two Testaments, it looks like God gave up drinking and took some anger management classes.

Of course Christians would certainly object to the rape and incest, not to mention the several references to male prostitutes. Explain those to your kids!

The one thing they wouldn't object to is the violence. They had no problem with the horrific violence in the Passion of the Christ. For some reason people enjoyed watching Jesus get tortured.

[IamsSon]

scowl, on 25 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

I believe it would be hotly protested by Christians. They would claim that it unfairly shows God as a cruel, uncaring and ruthless monster who used humans as toys. They want people to see the sweet caring God of the New Testament, not the murderous and punishing God of the Old Testament. Sometime between the two Testaments, it looks like God gave up drinking and took some anger management classes.

Of course Christians would certainly object to the rape and incest, not to mention the several references to male prostitutes. Explain those to your kids!

The one thing they wouldn't object to is the violence. They had no problem with the horrific violence in the Passion of the Christ. For some reason people enjoyed watching Jesus get tortured.

You're probably right that many people who claim to be Christians would be incensed by the portrayal of a God who is not a senile, bearded old white guy wearing a robe and falling all over himself to grant every wish anyone has.  And yes, there are many people who call themselves Christian and who have yet to crack a Bible open, much less actually read it, who would be shocked by the things discussed in the book.  I think they would be even more shocked by the things Jesus said and the people He hung out with.  They might even be shocked to learn that in the Old Testament, God was so horrible, so bloodthirsty that He forgave the people of Nineveh and gave them another chance to turn from their debauchery, that when you read the stories you find that God gave people chances, and even that He gave life to everyone and everything on the planet.

[scowl]

IamsSon, on 25 February 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

You're probably right that many people who claim to be Christians would be incensed by the portrayal of a God who is not a senile, bearded old white guy wearing a robe and falling all over himself to grant every wish anyone has.

They'll also complain that George Burns played God better.

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They might even be shocked to learn that in the Old Testament, God was so horrible, so bloodthirsty that He forgave the people of Nineveh and gave them another chance to turn from their debauchery,

Especially since Jonah will look like a complete fraud to the audience because in the end nothing happens to the people of Nineveh. They receive nothing at all in return. Remember folks... when a screaming foreigner comes to your city to tell everyone that God is going to smite every last one of you for your sins, yet nothing happens, it isn't because the guy was nuts. You're actually experiencing God's mercy which is identical to nothing.

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that when you read the stories you find that God gave people chances, and even that He gave life to everyone and everything on the planet.

That didn't annoy Him enough to kill.

[Sherapy]

shadowhive, on 24 February 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

I guess you don't understand and I can't seem to put it into words in a way that you can. Needless to say I don't think thinking 'god is great' 24/7 (and thinking about sin 24/7) can be a good thing.



Says your religion. And also that specific relationship doesn't come off as a particularly good one.



Yes. Like I said people have this thing, they're called friends. Now good friends wil llisten to your problems and actually care about how you are and what you have to say. are you really trying to act like those things don't exist?



it isn't surprisiing I suppose. Do you think it's healthy to want god's favor all the time?

You bring in a great point, healthy realtionships do have an element of  equality( a give and take a resepct that each perspective is valuable/important even if it doesn't agree all the time) a relationship is based in similarities, a giving and expecting to get is healthy/normal to shoot for. That one has needs which are unique to each individual and each respectively can ask that they are met is integral to growth producing relationships. I cannot have a growth producing relationship if I only exist to affirm another or deny that I have an individuality that has its own needs.

Edited by Sherapy, 25 February 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[eight bits]

scowl

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You're actually experiencing God's mercy which is identical to nothing.

I think that line is from a movie, where Richard Castellano explains to Al Pacino what a store owner get for payng protection money,

"You're actually experiencing the Godfather's mercy which is identical to nothing."

[braveone2u]

maxhobbs, on 25 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

If the bible was written today as a movie, it would get a one star rating from "christians".

Hello maxhobbs,

If it were greenlighted today, who would be qualified to write the screenplay? Christopher Hampton, perhaps?? Agreed, it would get a one star rating not just from Christians if it were just another sword-and-sandal film...like many so-called Biblical epics.

"The Lord said, 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.'" (Genesis 11:6-7)

Peace.