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The Medicineless hospitals of China


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#1    Rolci

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:29 AM

I felt I had to start this topic as I could not find a single topic on this on the whole of UM. I was actually appalled when google came up with 0 hits for the word "medicinless" for this website. Sorry if this has already been discussed here, I could find no reference, but even if it has, let's do it again!

This is supposed to be huge yet no media coverage that I'm aware of. Basically, there are several so-called medicineless hospitals in China where healing takes place using Chi, exercises, positive affirmation, and most importantly they do not "just" heal patients with all sorts of diseases including incurable tumours of cancer but they actually teach them how to heal themselves. Here is an outline of the whole "movement" with some basic info:

http://www.chilel.co...ng/hospital.htm

I first heard of these hospitals in a workshop by Gregg Braden where he presented a video footage where they use ultrasound imaging to show the tumour of a cancer patient disappearing in a matter of 3 minutes. We are not talking about a time lapse video! I think you can view the whole workshop here:

http://www.youtube.c...7e1yCVvc#t=4800

If I remember correctly this was filmed in the largest such hospital in China where they do not allow any filming, and Gregg was told he was the first and I believe since then still the only person they allowed to take a footage for his documentary, I think he mentions in his presentation why, but not sure.

I must voice my opinion here that I like to take a cautious approach to presenters of esoteric, conspiracy, or other kinds of "weird" material, like David Icke, David Wilcock, Graham Hancock and the rest. But I must admit, I find the material Gregg Braden presents to be, besides empowering and thought-provoking, also well-researched and thorough, I like his provocative and, I believe, original ideas. Also I fing him to be genuine and honest. Of course I could be wrong, but all I can give here is my opinion, the way I see him and his work. He has many great works like The Isaiah Effect and  The Lost Mode of Prayer and others, but there is quite a lot of overlapping between them. If anyone is interested in what he has to say, I would recommend Speaking the Lost Language of God, an 8-hour presentation that, well, pretty much has it all in one pack. If you can't get hold of it (I'd rather not offer ideas here on how to! :D), then you can just watch The Lost Mode of Prayer or a few of his other presentations and workshops on youtube.

So anyway, getting back to the main topic, medicinless hospitals in China and now more and more in America and around the world. I found an interview with a healing practitioner who works in the US:



What do you guys think?

While we're on this topic, I'd like to mention one more thing rather than start a whole new topic just for this. I checked a few weeks ago and couldn't find anything here on UM about this either, so I might as well add this here.

It's about healing by the laying on of hands (LOOH). I'm not talking about psychic healing (PH) at all. Although they could be related, for all I know PH, LOOH and Chi healing could be different forms/manifestations of the same thing, working on the same underlying principle, like "you you create your own reality", or the law of attraction as explained in The Secret (video and book) by Rhonda Byrne.

Anyway, it's called Craniosacral Therapy (CT), and while there is an entry about this on wikipedia, it doesn't sound like it's a recognized form of healing in the west, at least not in many countries yet, surely the US, UK and such countries are "way behind", however, it is a completely normal and accepted practice in some western-european countries like Austria. For example, there is a fascinating BBC documentary about The Girl Who Never Ate, in which this british girl, whom the NHS could not heal, is taken by her family (having no other choice left) to this clinic in Austria that has a 100% (!) success rate and where CT is practised routinely (wonder why? maybe... it works?). The thing is, they've never treated children of this girl's age (she was 7 at the time), so she is a real challenge. If you want to know what happened, watch the whole documentary:

http://www.youtube.c...lpARXhoZY#t=671

The part about the physiotherapist that uses CT starts at 16:20 Almost makes me cry just watching!

This Chi is probably the thing that breatharians use as well. Funny how there are almost no documentaries about Breatharianism. The best one I've seen so far is In the Beginning There Was Light, but it's mostly in german, and finding English subtitles was quite a bit of a challenge even for me, but was worth it. It tells the stories of many such people, many of whom go voluntarily to different medical institutes (MI) to be observed and examined to prove that they're not fakers, but I especially love the story of this german guy that goes to one such MI in Switzerland to be checked and allows them to do tests on him for weeks on the condition that they will publish all the results, and of course when they're done they never do, and he goes to another one is Austria and the same thing happens. WTF??

So what do you guys think? What's going on here? What is it that big pharma doesn't want us to know? It isn't hard to see, imagine the entire population of the Earth being able to heal themselves, not requiring food from supermarkets and using zero point free energy devices for their households. The PTB would be in deep cr@p in no time. Spiritual awakening for humanity is not exactly their agenda. Disempowerment through cultural conditioning, indoctrination ("education"), dumbing down (GM food and additives) and distraction ("entertainment") however sure is! Just my opinion, this last paragraph, but I want to hear (or read) yours!

Edited by Rolci, 13 December 2013 - 04:03 AM.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#2    psyche101

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:16 AM

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

So what do you guys think? What's going on here?

I think people who put faith in stuff like this often end up either dead, or they kill someone like thier kids with such beliefs.

Ever hear of the semi famous Kim Tinkam from the Oprah Show? She claimed positive thinking got rid of her cancer.

The woman to whom I refer is named Kim Tinkham, who was diagnosed with breast cancer over three and a half years ago. Regular readers may recall that Kim Tinkham achieved fame not long after that when she was featured on The Oprah Winfrey Show in an episode about The Secret, an episode I discussed posts entitled The Oprah-fication of Medicine and On the nature of “alternative” medicine cancer cure testimonials.

It was announced on the Facebook page Caring for Kim that the subject of this post, Kim Tinkham, passed away on December 7, 2010 in the late afternoon. Although it was not revealed what kind of cancer she died of, Tinkham almost certainly died from metastatic breast cancer. Quackery appears to have claimed another victim.)


Steve Jobs? You must know that name.

Most pancreatic cancers are aggressive and always terminal, but Steve was lucky (if you can call it that) and had a rare form called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor, which is actually quite treatable with excellent survival rates — if caught soon enough. The median survival is about a decade, but it depends on how soon it’s removed surgically. Steve caught his very early, and should have expected to survive much longer than a decade. Unfortunately Steve relied on a diet instead of early surgery. There is no evidence that diet has any effect on islet cell carcinoma. As he dieted for nine months, the tumor progressed, and took him from the high end to the low end of the survival rate.
Why did he do this? Well, outsiders like us can’t know; but many who avoid medical treatment in favor of unproven alternatives do so because they’ve been given bad information, without the tools or expertise to discriminate good from bad. Steve was exposed to such bad information, as are we all.
Eventually it became clear to all involved that his alternative therapy wasn’t working, and from then on, by all accounts, Steve aggressively threw money at the best that medical science could offer. But it was too late. He had a Whipple procedure. He had a liver transplant. And then he died, all too young
.


Or, any of the following:

Lady Sally Baldwin
Oxford, England

Died (untreated breast cancer)
1998

She travelled to Tijuana, Mexico to seek an alternative treatment for her breast cancer. She continued the "Gerson therapy" at home, but died two years later.


Debbie Benson
Age: 55
Fort Bragg, California

Died (cancer)
July 15, 1997

She had a deep distrust of traditional medicine, so she sought out naturopaths and other alternative practitioners for her breast cancer. It raged out of control and she died


Marcia Bergeron
Age: 57
Quadra Island, British Columbia, Canada

Died (poisoning)
December 26, 2006

She distrusted conventional medicine, so she decided to self-medicate using pills purchased from a Canadian online pharmacy. What she didn't know was the pharmacy was not actually Canadian and the pills were tainted with toxic heavy metals.


JoAnn Burggraf
Age: 58
Tulsa, Oklahoma

Died (undiagnosed leukemia)
October 2005

Energy medicine, Quack medical device, (EPFX)


Antonio Campos
Age: 5 months
Los Angeles, California

Died (untreated cancer)
Antonio's mother looked for an alternative to the painful chemotherapy treatments he needed for cancer. She found a clinic using a energy medicine machine. Antonio died anyway.



I could go on for pages and pages. It is one thing to put up a cheap website and make wild claims, it is another altogether to prove a 100% success rate. Sorry, but I just do not believe Western Medicine would overlook treatments with a 100% success rate. They would indeed be all over it. Not all of it is corrupt. I don't get people who do not immunise their children either.
Similar with religious beliefs, that has cost too many lives as well.


Gregg Braden?????



“Now, perhaps more than any other time in human history, the choice of outcome is ours. Once we have read the words, recognized the possibilities, and exposed ourselves to new ideas, we cannot return to the innocence of the moment before. In the presence of what we have seen, we must make sense of our experience. We may disregard what we have been shown, citing lack of proof or too little data, or we may allow ourselves to embrace the opportunity of a new way. The moment that we reconcile each new possibility is the moment where the magic begins; it is the moment of choice.”
The ISAIAH EFFECT, page 28, Gregg Braden



No supporting data, but hey, don't worry about that?

No thanks.

Edited by psyche101, 13 December 2013 - 04:19 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#3    Rolci

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM

The first website I linked clearly points out that these hospitals place no importance on diet. So what were you trying to prove with Jobbs and his diet? I never said diet is the key.

As for those that alternative medicine can't heal, funny how the few make the headlines in corporate media while (possibly tens of) thousands who are healed never get reported, the ONLY way knowledge spreads is by word of mouth.

You forgot to comment on CT.

Gregg Braden? Nice cherrypicking again, dunno how you do it, or even why you do it. as a quick find for sure. Do you have a txt file with discrediting quotes for everyone?

No supporting data? He's presented TONS. Did you actually watch the video? And even if there were none. If western "medicine" has given up on someone and the only hope left is alternative, what do you expect them to do? Wait for supporting data?

And we've already discussed the importance of the medium in a different topic but let me re-iterate.

Here we discuss IDEAS. And when anyone offers an idea for discussion, it's 99.9% of the time not your idea. We assimilate information as we grow older and older. After a while you don't even remember where you heard a particular piece of info, it becomes a book on a shelf in your mental library. If you, at any point, offer a thought for discussion, it is IRRELEVANT where you acquired that thought or where the building block that make it up originate from. If I want to discuss the reproduction of flowers, it doesn't matter who was the first in history to analyse it and write a book about it letting everyone else know, and what kind of a person it was. What counts for a discussion is the IDEA. Now sometimes and idea you offer for discussion originates from a source you read recently, so you happen to know whose idea to discuss it. The mere fact of remembrance does not make the person you heard it from more relevant to the discussion. You could've heard the same idea from ANYONE ELSE, a friend or anyone. What matters is this: You have become aware of an idea, a thought or a line of reasoning that intrigues you, and you wish to present it for discussion to see where it goes. So you go on a discussion board where stuff gets discussed. But there seems to be an invisible rule you guys are creating: In the event that the thought I want to discuss happens to entered my field of interests recently enough that I still remember where it came from, and I dare present the ideas with original quotations (for a clearer understanding of the idea) with a reference to the person that happened to be medium through which this idea reached me, than potential discussers feel compelled to analyse the referred source person to bits, and if anyone finds anything objectionable in their personality, for them that automatically renders any and all ideas that he ever presented unworthy for discussion. You must realize, that person is a medium. The same thoughts exist independently in many other thinkers.

So even though you managed to find a sentence from him you don't agree with, or even if you find more, that doesn't mean that he has no useful information. ALL of his ideas can't be useless. If you listen to 100 of his ideas and only find one that is useful, as long as it's useful it was worth it because it made a difference in your life, something you can implement or practice. Surely time better spent than watching a soap opera or some reality show. Just my opinion. I personally find many of his thoughts empowering.

And I prefer quotes like these, although they may not be inspiring to everyone:

The healing comes from allowing us to feel whatever it is that the world gives to us to feel and to acknowledge that feeling.  Allow the feeling to unfold without judging what it means or being afraid of how it may affect something else in the world.
The feelings that we call negative are simply indications that something has crossed our path that is now inviting us to examine this experience.  Why do I feel this way?  What is it saying to me?  They become a problem only when we ignore them – when feelings go unresolved or unreconciled.
When feelings are unresolved and we bury them or mask our hurt or our frustration or our anger or our jealously or our rage, and we do that month after month, year after year, and that feeling is buried inside of us looking for an expression – that’s where we begin to have the problems.

So, the question is: when we are experiencing judgement and ego, what is that saying to us really?
The first thing it is telling us is that we are not in our heart because the heart has no judgement. And, the heart has no ego.  When we are experiencing those qualities, it is coming from our mind; it’s coming from our inner child; it’s coming from our fear, from our families, from our perceptions, our conditioning.  It’s not coming from our heart.

So, the goal of many ancient traditions (early Christian, early Jewish, early Buddhist, Native American, and now the scientific principles today) is to find a way to view the experiences of life (what happens in the world around us, our relationships, our finances, and our health) through the single eye of the heart – the eye that says “yes, this is what has happened” without saying what has happened is good or bad, or right or wrong.

It is the marriage of the mind and the heart that give us the power to create, and the way they say to transcend, to get through the judgement that we find ourselves in.   It sounds strange at first.  But, what they invite us to do is this: when something hurts us in life, when something crosses our path that causes us pain, our first reaction is to move away from it and say “I don’t want that.”   That is when the judgement comes in.

If we can embrace the experiences when someone or an experience hurts us in life, not that we like the experience or want to have it again, but the ancients say that we should bless the experience. This sounds very strange – to bless the things that hurt you.  But, here’s what happens. When we begin to bless the things that cause us the pain, the blessing is simply the acknowledgement. It is the blessing that relieves the charge of judgement for just a moment.  That’s all we need, because for just a moment when the charge is relieved, we can replace the hurt with something else.  And the ancients say that something else is what we call beauty.

and once he had a conversation with someone, a monk I guess, in Tibet that went something like this:


"-When we see your prayers, when we watch you chant and tone, and we see your oms, and you hold your mudras and your mantras and the bells and the bowls and the gongs and the incense, for twelve and eighteen hours a day in those cold monasteries, when we see that happening on the outside, what happens to you on the inside?

-You have never seen our prayers. A prayer cannot be seen. A prayer has no outward expression. What you have seen is what we do in our culture to create the feeling in our bodies. And the feeling is the prayer. The feeling has no outward expression. We can be having a feeling when we walk down the mountain, when we sing our songs, when we eat together in our communal dining rooms. We can be in prayer because the prayer is a feeling.

-If this prayer is so powerful then why didn’t it last?

-Because this experience in our heart was viewed by the scientists as something you do for a moment in time. This experience of the heart is not something that we do, it is something that we become. It is something that we live in our lives.  Life becomes the prayer.  Every moment of every day is the prayer. The prayer is based in a feeling and we can have a feeling all of the time - we can have a feeling in our cars while driving on the highway; we can have a feeling in the office, in the school, with our families, alone in the park. It’s not something that we do in a moment.  It’s a way of living. It’s a way of life.  It’s something that we become. And, when we do that the prayer never ends."

Edited by Rolci, 13 December 2013 - 04:55 AM.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#4    Likely Guy

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:35 AM

Platitudes don't save lives.


#5    Likely Guy

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:41 AM

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:


I was actually appalled when google came up with 0 hits for the word "medicinless" for this website.

Actually, if you spell it "medicineless", Google gives you 134,000 results, while "medicinless" gives you 606. (Well, now, 607 results.)

Edited by Likely Guy, 13 December 2013 - 05:43 AM.


#6    psyche101

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:42 AM

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

The first website I linked clearly points out that these hospitals place no importance on diet. So what were you trying to prove with Jobbs and his diet? I never said diet is the key.

Did you not notice I offered several alternative methods that resulted in death, and mentioned religion? This is not a new concept, it is very old, the claim might be new to this part of the world, and if it was so successful, I just cannot see it being a secret in this day and age. Practises that rely on verbal claims are to be considered with a very skeptical eye. You say there is 100% success rate. Where is the proof of this? If is true, why can't we see confirmation? A verbal is just not good enough.

Mate, that link says that people are healed by belief and the power of the Universe! Good God man, do you really take that superseded superstition as anything more than antiquated ramblings?

ChiLel consists of four parts...

Strong belief (Shan Shin): a belief that chi or life energy, can heal all ailments, including one's own. Students build belief by listening to testimonials of recovered patients and learning about chi and its healing effects.

Group Healing (Chu Chong): before a group of students begins ChiLel, the teacher verbally synchronizes the thinking of the group to obtain chi from the universe and bring it down into a healing energy field, shrouding everyone including the teacher himself or herself. The healing effect is enhanced because the group is acting as one.

Chi Healing (Fa Chi): Facilitating chi healing by teachers teachers bring healing energy from the universe to each individual to facilitate healing.

Practice (Lan Gong): Students learn easy-to-follow ChiLel movements and practice them over and over again. The methods, parts of Zhineng qigong, are called:
Lift Chi Up and Pour Chi Down Method.
Three Centers Merge Standing Method.




Chisus mate, a freaking healing energy field? Fair go.


View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

As for those that alternative medicine can't heal, funny how the few make the headlines in corporate media while (possibly tens of) thousands who are healed never get reported, the ONLY way knowledge spreads is by word of mouth.

Are you seriously suggesting media is suppressing healing claims so that people won't know about them?

No offence mate, you make thought provoking posts at time, but that comment does not come under that category if I read it right. If it is how I suggested, that is childish and silly.


This is NOT word of mouth it is shameless internet promotion.

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

You forgot to comment on CT.

No I didn't just do not know enough to comment, and know when I reach my depth. As far as I know, Craniosacral therapy can relieve tension, and that's is the limit of its beneficial benefits, I don't think that is what your method is referring to though. Personally, I know of a far more satisfying and effective method to relieve tension.

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Gregg Braden? Nice cherrypicking again, dunno how you do it, or even why you do it. as a quick find for sure. Do you have a txt file with discrediting quotes for everyone? We've already discussed the importance of the medium in a different topic but let me re-iterate.

Dunno how I do it? Maybe these guys are not all that you think they are cracked up to be, and some people just might have wondered this path before you, but come away with a very different  perspective. Just maybe.... they are not as hidden, mysterious and compelling as the websites make out.

That is funny though, text file? I am the Anti-Rolci!! LOL.

YES Muahahahahahahahahaha I am asking the Universe to tune into your brain and provide me with information 5 minutes before you think of it!! Just give up now, the Universe is on my side!!


Mua ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Note the breaks in that last evil laugh. It makes it work. So much more evil now. That's what I learned in Skeptic school.

:D

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Here we discuss IDEAS. And when anyone offers an idea for discussion, it's 99.9% of the time not your idea. We assimilate information as we grow older and older. After a while you don't even remember where you heard a particular piece of info, it becomes a book on a shelf in your mental library. If you, at any point, offer a thought for discussion, it is IRRELEVANT where you acquired that thought or where the building block that make it up originate from. If I want to discuss the reproduction of flowers, it doesn't matter who was the first in history to analyse it and write a book about it letting everyone else know, and what kind of a person it was. What counts for a discussion is the IDEA. Now sometimes and idea you offer for discussion originates from a source you read recently, so you happen to know whose idea to discuss it. The mere fact of remembrance does not make the person you heard it from more relevant to the discussion. You could've heard the same idea from ANYONE ELSE, a friend or anyone. What matters is this: You have become aware of an idea, a thought or a line of reasoning that intrigues you, and you wish to present it for discussion to see where it goes. So you go on a discussion board where stuff gets discussed. But there seems to be an invisible rule you guys are creating: In the event that the thought I want to discuss happens to entered my field of interests recently enough that I still remember where it came from, and I dare present the ideas with original quotations (for a clearer understanding of the idea) with a reference to the person that happened to be medium through which this idea reached me, than potential discussers feel compelled to analyse the referred source person to bits, and if anyone finds anything objectionable in their personality, for them that automatically renders any and all ideas that he ever presented unworthy for discussion. You must realize, that person is a medium. The same thoughts exist independently in many other thinkers.

Yes, got that the first time round. Awesome, take a pat on the back.

This is the sort of idea that I reckon kills people. I did say that straight up.

I thought you were bewildered at me giving you all those options with those deaths as a direct result of alternative medicines? I take it you get "the idea" now?


View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

So even though you managed to find a sentence from him you don't agree with, or even if you find more, that doesn't mean that he has no useful information. ALL of his ideas can't be useless. If you listen to 100 of his ideas and only find one that is useful, as long as it's useful it was worth it because it made a difference in your life, something you can implement or practice. Surely time better spent than watching a soap opera or some reality show. Just my opinion. I personally find many of his thoughts empowering.

Why can't all his ideas be useless? Did you not see what he wrote? Do not be put of by no, or bad data??? WTF?

Why bother with someone who is wrong 99% of the time? Being right once in a hundred times is a crock Rolci, I know personally from experience that Western Medicine works 99% of the time. That seems far better odds to me, I cannot help wondering if it isn't broken, why fix it? What Braden says is dishonest. No two ways about it, any honest person will insist you look at data, and repeat a process as many times as one is asked to.

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

And I prefer quotes like these, although they may not be inspiring to everyone:

The healing comes from allowing us to feel whatever it is that the world gives to us to feel and to acknowledge that feeling.  Allow the feeling to unfold without judging what it means or being afraid of how it may affect something else in the world.
The feelings that we call negative are simply indications that something has crossed our path that is now inviting us to examine this experience.  Why do I feel this way?  What is it saying to me?  They become a problem only when we ignore them – when feelings go unresolved or unreconciled.
When feelings are unresolved and we bury them or mask our hurt or our frustration or our anger or our jealously or our rage, and we do that month after month, year after year, and that feeling is buried inside of us looking for an expression – that’s where we begin to have the problems.


Do you seek people like this out just for inspirational sayings? I honestly hope not.

You know, I just try to learn a bit more about the world each day, and hope I can help someone out. You might be surprised how far that gets you.


View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

So, the question is: when we are experiencing judgement and ego, what is that saying to us really?
The first thing it is telling us is that we are not in our heart because the heart has no judgement. And, the heart has no ego.  When we are experiencing those qualities, it is coming from our mind; it’s coming from our inner child; it’s coming from our fear, from our families, from our perceptions, our conditioning.  It’s not coming from our heart.

I think it's self preservation.

Talk of "from the heart" sounds like mumbo jumbo to me, The Heart is a muscle, the romantic notions we attribute to it are superfluous to existence. As such, whenever anyone starts rambling on like this, I reckon they are not trying to tell me how to listen to my heart, they are trying to get into my head.

Seriously, nobody wants to go there. It's a whirling dervish. Try thinking early solar system. There you go an analogy :D I am philosophical today!

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

So, the goal of many ancient traditions (early Christian, early Jewish, early Buddhist, Native American, and now the scientific principles today) is to find a way to view the experiences of life (what happens in the world around us, our relationships, our finances, and our health) through the single eye of the heart – the eye that says “yes, this is what has happened” without saying what has happened is good or bad, or right or wrong.

I think they were a way to help initiate control civility industry and community.

But nothing to say I am right I suppose.

One is always ones own worst critic, does that not indicate the heart must be judgmental to an extent?

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

It is the marriage of the mind and the heart that give us the power to create, and the way they say to transcend, to get through the judgement that we find ourselves in.   It sounds strange at first.  But, what they invite us to do is this: when something hurts us in life, when something crosses our path that causes us pain, our first reaction is to move away from it and say “I don’t want that.”   That is when the judgement comes in.

Hang on create what? That is a very ambiguous claim. We can create ideas, we cannot create physical things. Some think physical things can be provided by "The Universe". Just, no.

My first reaction to something that hurts me is not to avoid, but view with caution. I am more of the thinking that we are individual in this respect. Whilst I agree with "I don't want that again" People might go different ways about making that happen.

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

If we can embrace the experiences when someone or an experience hurts us in life, not that we like the experience or want to have it again, but the ancients say that we should bless the experience. This sounds very strange – to bless the things that hurt you.  But, here’s what happens. When we begin to bless the things that cause us the pain, the blessing is simply the acknowledgement. It is the blessing that relieves the charge of judgement for just a moment.  That’s all we need, because for just a moment when the charge is relieved, we can replace the hurt with something else.  And the ancients say that something else is what we call beauty.

Or "What does not kill you makes you stronger" Perhaps?

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

and once he had a conversation with someone, a monk I guess, in Tibet that went something like this:


"-When we see your prayers, when we watch you chant and tone, and we see your oms, and you hold your mudras and your mantras and the bells and the bowls and the gongs and the incense, for twelve and eighteen hours a day in those cold monasteries, when we see that happening on the outside, what happens to you on the inside?

-You have never seen our prayers. A prayer cannot be seen. A prayer has no outward expression. What you have seen is what we do in our culture to create the feeling in our bodies. And the feeling is the prayer. The feeling has no outward expression. We can be having a feeling when we walk down the mountain, when we sing our songs, when we eat together in our communal dining rooms. We can be in prayer because the prayer is a feeling.

-If this prayer is so powerful then why didn’t it last?

Because this experience in our heart was viewed by the scientists as something you do for a moment in time. This experience of the heart is not something that we do, it is something that we become. It is something that we live in our lives.  Life becomes the prayer.  Every moment of every day is the prayer. The prayer is based in a feeling and we can have a feeling all of the time - we can have a feeling in our cars while driving on the highway; we can have a feeling in the office, in the school, with our families, alone in the park. It’s not something that we do in a moment.  It’s a way of living. It’s a way of life.  It’s something that we become. And, when we do that the prayer never ends."

Now see, I do find that interesting, because that is what I call a person's spirit. Not a transparent version of a person, but the culmination of generations of culture mixed with personal experience that choices mould a character into. What you are, what people see, how you act. I do not believe there is more than what we make of ourselves, and I do not believe that when we die we continue on. I think we are responsible for ourselves, and we have no kindly greater power watching over us, it's every man for himself, in life and death. You snooze, you lose. All we leave are memories, and in that, we become spiritual in the sense that our existence carries on without a body.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#7    psyche101

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 13 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Actually, if you spell it "medicineless", Google gives you 134,000 results.


Does too!!


:rofl:

That is funny.

:tu:

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#8    Rlyeh

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:55 AM

China? Next you'll be advocating the use of tiger penises.


#9    psyche101

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:01 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 13 December 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

China? Next you'll be advocating the use of tiger penises.

Medicinal use I hope!!!!!!

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#10    Nighthawk9653

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:23 AM

Interesting.

Neat topic :D

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                                Both are equally terrifying.  -Arthur C. Clark

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#11    White Crane Feather

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 09:42 AM

Alternative medicine has its place, but should never be replace solid modern medicine.

The mind certainly can heal the body. There are documented cases of people with actual  chronic disease like diabetes that have severe muktiple personality disorders. One personality actually has diabetes while the other does not, high blod pressure and even different heart rates. This tells us that the mind can indeed cure some things almost instantaneously. But it's not understood how yet. Modern medicine and safe alternatives should always Persued together.

http://www.nytimes.c...ersonality.html

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    Still Waters

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 12:07 PM

View PostLikely Guy, on 13 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Actually, if you spell it "medicineless", Google gives you 134,000 results
*Spelling edited in title*

Posted Image

#13    third_eye

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:19 PM

Its no secret to us here in the Far East ... we practice it all the time ... does it cure everyone ? No ... same as medicine everywhere ... its not a miracle cure all ... no such thing as yet exist ...

Holistic ... prevention ... that's the key ... no need for cures is the principle factor ... and a cure does not means it cures for eternity ... relapses are common ... especially when factors such as patients reverting back to previous habits that complicate the recovery process.


Quote

Acupuncture used during heart surgery

Shanhai Renji Hospital yesterday announced the nation's first successful heart by-pass surgery via acupuncture and a small amount of intravenous medication as an anesthetic.
The method shortens the recovery time, limits postoperative complications and it's also less expensive. Still, medical experts said not all such patients are suitable for the procedure.
During the surgery on December 4, doctors put six acupuncture needles in the chest and wrist of a 78-year-old patient with myocardial infarction to perform electro-acupuncture as an anesthetic. A small amount of intravenous medication was given to maintain the effects of the anesthetic.
Generally, this type of surgery uses a big dose of anesthesia and a respirator. With the acupuncture method, the patient doesn't need a respirator. A laryngeal mask was used instead.
"The patient was sleeping lightly, which means the doctor can wake the patient during surgery for communication if necessary," said Huang Huan, a Renji official. "Without a general anesthetic and respirator, the patient is more relaxed during surgery. He sat up within hours after surgery and left the intensive care unit under his own power the next day. A traditional anesthetic could have kept him in the ICU for two or three days."
According to experts, heart surgery with acupuncture anesthesia is difficult and doctors need to be highly skilled to attempt the procedure.
(Shanghai Daily December 26, 2007)

Quote

CAN ACUPUNCTURE BE USED FOR ANESTHESIA DURING SURGERY?

Yes, acupuncture is very effective when used for anesthesia during surgery. By stimulating certain acupuncture points during surgery, an absence of pain is produced and the patient is able to undergo an operation while remaining fully conscious. Acupuncture anesthesia was created in the 1950's in China and continues to be used there today during most major surgeries. It is widely used in China for such complex operations as brain, heart, and abdominal surgery. It is popular in China because it is economical, practical, and beneficial to the patients. With acupuncture anesthesia there is less bleeding during surgery and, since the patient is mentally alert and able to communicate with the surgeon, the surgeon is able to judge operative results as the operation proceeds. There is also quicker post-operative recovery.
  • acupuncture florida dot com link


Quote


US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health Acupuncture anaesthesia for open heart surgery pdf link available

T. CHENG




Quote

Acupuncture Reduces Pain, Need For Opioids After Surgery

Oct. 18, 2007 — Using acupuncture before and during surgery significantly reduces the level of pain and the amount of potent painkillers needed by patients after the surgery is over, according to Duke University Medical Center anesthesiologists who combined data from 15 small randomized acupuncture clinical trials

~

Quote

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'

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#14    Rolci

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:04 PM

thanx 4 all the useful linx 3rd i. I appreciate your contribution! Do you have links on stuff other than acupuncture as well?

View PostLikely Guy, on 13 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

Actually, if you spell it "medicineless", Google gives you 134,000 results, while "medicinless" gives you 606. (Well, now, 607 results.)

I just made a typo in the title. When I did the search I did it correctly. And 0 results on the UM site.

View Postpsyche101, on 13 December 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

It is one thing to put up a cheap website and make wild claims, it is another altogether to prove a 100% success rate. Sorry, but I just do not believe Western Medicine would overlook treatments with a 100% success rate. They would indeed be all over it. Not all of it is corrupt.

First off, the website I offered is not some kind of official "network of chinese medicineless hospitals" website. I  wanted to share knowledge of these hospitals and the whole phenomenon that is spreading, certainly not through the media, so I did a google search and picked a random website so you can got some idea of what I'm on about rather than trying to give an incomplete and possibly mistake-laden account from memory. There are thousands more websites, some explain it better and in more detail than others. Again, I wasn't looking for opinions on one website or on GB's personality or his "work", more like the power of Chi and its uses for healing and its other forms and/or names like prana etc. Would love to know more about CT as well, maybe anyone here practising?

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#15    Rafterman

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:49 PM

What a fantastic way for China to keep its healthcare costs in check.

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