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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#2896    Apol

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

View Postgestur, on 16 March 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Earlier I said I agree, but let me be more precise:
There are indeed themes in OLB dealing with the different races and problems mixing them.

IMO, the best summary of what the book is about, is the gradual decline of an ancient civilization or culture.

Yes, there are certainly themes in the OLB which are dealing with the mixing of races. Of course, problems arise when races are mixed. It is close to impossible for a person to change his/her culture and ways of behaviour overnight. At the same time, when two or more cultures or races are becoming mixed, they all benefit from it over time - both culturally and racially. People are not evolving without having problems to solve, though, but mixed cultures and races are developing new and better qualities. It's the same as in the animal world - the mixing of dog races, for instance, creates better characters in dogs.

It is right that the book is about a declining civilization or culture, but it was doomed to decline because it missed something, which the invaders provided - first and foremost the Christian doctrines of "turning of the other cheek", which at last stopped the internal wars, and of humanitarianism. But at the same time our culture is still intact - it has just received an important injection. Look what the European culture has become today: the regular cultural leader of the world - for the time being with the multicultural USA in front. And at the harbour of New York you have Freyja standing with her lamp of fire - the Goddess of Freedom. How the empire of USA is acting around the world, suppressing other peoples because it believes it is superior to others, is another question, though. It certainly needs to be confronted in the form of problems in some form or another so that its pride can be lowered. The Twin Towers incident was hopefully an awakening. It is like with nations as with individuals: When you meet a person who obviously feels he is superior to others, you say: "What does he think he is? I want to hit him, that arrogant son of a b****!" And he gets the problem he need for being able to change.

USA has still its cultural problems to solve, though, but it has made big progress; and Europe is still in the act of learning its cultural or racial lessons. But the question remains: will we do the same mistake as last time we had a bad economical time. Then it was the Jews, now it is the Moslems...

Edited by Apol, 16 March 2013 - 08:27 AM.


#2897    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

View PostApol, on 16 March 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Thank you for that compliment, 'gestur'.
Oh, I feel like putting a pot of tea on for you two chums.

I jest. Especially after a few.

But seriously, I'd be going insane without the company of you all quite frankly.

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#2898    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

OK, enough friggin' around.

Where does everyone think Buda and Mannagardaford/Mannagardewarde is situated.

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#2899    Apol

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:31 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 16 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

OK, enough friggin' around.

Where does everyone think Buda and Mannagardaford/Mannagardewarde is situated.

I have placed Bvda in Nijmegen, but it might well be it was in another place in the vicinity - for instance in Batenburg, Wijk bij Duurstede, Rhenen or Doorwerth.
Probably was Mannagardavvrda in Münster - I think the first part of the name just became distorted at some time and for some reason.


#2900    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 01:59 PM

View PostApol, on 16 March 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I have placed Bvda in Nijmegen, but it might well be it was in another place in the vicinity - for instance in Batenburg, Wijk bij Duurstede, Rhenen or Doorwerth.
Probably was Mannagardavvrda in Münster - I think the first part of the name just became distorted at some time and for some reason.
Thanks for your opinion Apol.

I like the Batavian idea but somehow the words aren't working for me. batavian is said to come from 'bad/bat'=good to better - in Frisian bet or betera:
bet-er-a

19, afries., Adj.: nhd. bessere; ne. better


This is just not going through to Buda imo. But I'm certainly open to trying some more.

What I did find was Bautzen area, with a BUD sound. In Saxony. But maybe it's too far East...

Bautzen (German pronunciation: [ˈbaʊtsən] (Posted Image listen); Upper Sorbian: Budyšin [ˈbudɨʃin] (Posted Image listen); Lower Sorbian: Budyšyn [ˈbudɨʃɨn], Czech: Budyšín, Polish: Budziszyn) is a hill-top town in eastern Saxony, Germany,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bautzen

Goda is also a place in the same area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6da

Then I'm thinking of Gotland (again) - maybe even it could be a related name. Godasburgh.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 March 2013 - 02:10 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2901    Othar Winis

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:00 PM

View PostApol, on 16 March 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

It is right that the book is about a declining civilization or culture, but it was doomed to decline because it missed something, which the invaders provided - first and foremost the Christian doctrines of "turning of the other cheek", which at last stopped the internal wars, and of humanitarianism.

More specific: the decline of matriarchal civilisation.
I'm not sure if they missed something before the arrival of the Magy.
It is clear that there were at times conflicts between the various female leaders.
As for Christian doctrines, let's have a look at some bible quotes below.
This OLB fragment is significant IMO.


Manuscript page 153 (What Friso did further):

INNA BOSM THES FOLKIS ANTSTONDON NW TWA PARTIJA.
THA ALDA AND ARMA WILDON WITHER ÉNE MODER HA.
MEN THAT JONGK.FOLK THAT FVL STRIDLUST WÉRE.
WILDE.NE TAT JEFHA KANING HA.
THA ÉROSTA HÉTO HJARA SELVA MODER HIS SVNA
AND THA OTHERA HÉTON HJARA SELVA TAT.HIS SVNA.
MEN THA MODER.HIS SVNA NE WRDE NAVT NI MELD.

My translation:

In the folkbosom, two parties now arose.
The old and poor wanted to have a mother again,
but the youngfolk that was militant,
wanted to have a dad or king.
The first named themselves mother-his sons,
and the other named themselves dad-his suns.
But the mother's suns were ignored (or: stood no chance).

Sandbach p. 207:

Among the people there now existed two parties.
The old and the poor wished to have the mother again,
but the young and the warlike
wished for a father and a king.
The first called themselves mother's sons,
the others father's sons,
but the mother's sons did not count for much;

=======

I have often wondered why the Judeochristian bible contains such nasty anti-women propaganda.
Personally at this point, I believe that the Abrahamic religions were created, partly to destroy the pre-judean matriarchal tradition.
In any case, it looks like there was a problem with women. Did they have to be tamed?
I am still researching and learning.

Some bible-quotes about the position of women, to illustrate this.

Old Testament

Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

New Testament (letters from Apostle Paul)

1 Timothy 2:8

I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control,
not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Ephesians 5:22

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

1 Corinthians 11

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short.
But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Posted Image "Saved from the Flood" ~ Oera-Linda studies ~ http://fryskednis.blogspot.com

#2902    Apol

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

View Postgestur, on 16 March 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

More specific: the decline of matriarchal civilisation.
I'm not sure if they missed something before the arrival of the Magy.
It is clear that there were at times conflicts between the various female leaders.
As for Christian doctrines, let's have a look at some bible quotes below.
This OLB fragment is significant IMO.


Manuscript page 153 (What Friso did further):

INNA BOSM THES FOLKIS ANTSTONDON NW TWA PARTIJA.
THA ALDA AND ARMA WILDON WITHER ÉNE MODER HA.
MEN THAT JONGK.FOLK THAT FVL STRIDLUST WÉRE.
WILDE.NE TAT JEFHA KANING HA.
THA ÉROSTA HÉTO HJARA SELVA MODER HIS SVNA
AND THA OTHERA HÉTON HJARA SELVA TAT.HIS SVNA.
MEN THA MODER.HIS SVNA NE WRDE NAVT NI MELD.

My translation:

In the folkbosom, two parties now arose.
The old and poor wanted to have a mother again,
but the youngfolk that was militant,
wanted to have a dad or king.
The first named themselves mother-his sons,
and the other named themselves dad-his suns.
But the mother's suns were ignored (or: stood no chance).

Sandbach p. 207:

Among the people there now existed two parties.
The old and the poor wished to have the mother again,
but the young and the warlike
wished for a father and a king.
The first called themselves mother's sons,
the others father's sons,
but the mother's sons did not count for much;

=======

I have often wondered why the Judeochristian bible contains such nasty anti-women propaganda.
Personally at this point, I believe that the Abrahamic religions were created, partly to destroy the pre-judean matriarchal tradition.
In any case, it looks like there was a problem with women. Did they have to be tamed?
I am still researching and learning.

Some bible-quotes about the position of women, to illustrate this.

Old Testament

Genesis 3:16

To the woman he said,
“I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children.
Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

New Testament (letters from Apostle Paul)

1 Timothy 2:8

I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control,
not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Ephesians 5:22

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

1 Corinthians 11

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.
Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.
For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short.
But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Yes, 'gestur', it is surely a lot of things to be said about this.
I recommend that we are discussing the OLB not in terms of religion but in an unbiased - as far as it is possible - scientific way.
That's much more interesting, and if we mean that the manuscript is telling an authentic history or if we mean that it is a hoax, is of less importance.
My contribution was a sort of offspring from the path. Sorry for that.
I really enjoy this site, and the differences between the various persons contributing is only a plus - it gives the possibility to look at things from different angles.

But what you say:

"I have often wondered why the Judeochristian bible contains such nasty anti-women propaganda.
Personally at this point, I believe that the Abrahamic religions were created, partly to destroy the pre-judean matriarchal tradition.
In any case, it looks like there was a problem with women. Did they have to be tamed?"

...is really an interesting question. I think you are into something here. Anyway it is about power.

Edited by Apol, 16 March 2013 - 02:42 PM.


#2903    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

Father's sons is interesting - even though Thioth is in the OLB - the other thing is Father is actually 'tat'. Which really then sounds like a very basic form of teut.


When, in consequence, quarrels and disputes arose in the households, and complaints were made about it, they said every man is the father (feeder) of his household, therefore he shall be master and judge over it. Thus arose arbitrariness, and as the men ruled over their households the kings would do over their people. When the kings had accomplished that, they should be called fathers of the people, they had statues of themselves made, and erected in the churches beside the statues of the idols, and those who would not bow down to them were either killed or put in chains. Your forefathers and the Twisklanders had intercourse with the kings, and learned these follies from them. But it is not only that some of your men have been guilty of stealing titles, I have also much to complain of against your wives. If there are men among you who wish to put themselves on a level with Wr-alda, there are also women who wish to consider themselves equals of Frya. Because they have borne children, they call themselves mothers; but they forget that Frya bore children without having intercourse with a man. Yes, they not only have desired to rob Frya and the Eeremoeders of their honourable title (with whom they cannot put themselves upon an equality), but they do the same with the honourable titles of their fellow-creatures. There are women who allow themselves to be called ladies, although they know that that only belongs to the wives of princes. They also let their daughters be called maagden, although they know that no young girls are so called unless they belong to a citadel. Yon all fancy that you are the better for this name-stealing, but you forget that jealousy clings to it, and that every wrong sows the seed of its own rod. If you do not alter your course, in time it will grow so strong that you cannot see what will be the end. Your descendants will be flogged by it, and will not know whence the stripes come


Man-power: It kinda answers itself here:

The first called themselves mother’s sons, the others father’s sons, but the mother’s sons did not count for much; because there were many ships to build, there was a good time for all kinds of workmen. Moreover, the sea-rovers brought all sorts of treasures, with which the maidens were pleased, the girls were pleased, and their relations and friends.

Men became important. They could build ships and do heavy labour, which needed doing at the time, they sailed and sailing was bringing in treasures that enchanted the maidens as well as everyone else, Friso was being a good, but typically sly King, who was ruling over his people and becoming more important than the folk mothers, whose grip was being lost also by the new Kings associations with the powerful priests, a male dominated area.

The Greeks also contributed to the loss of a womans place in society. Rome accepted Christianity eventually and the Mother's role, even there, was made redundant.

Males dominated society at the time. I think the folk-mothers lost their ruling power of intelligence, freedom and fair but ancient laws by Kings and priests who powered their rule by greed, lies, deception, slavery and making their own rules. Being fair and wise doesn't make you rich and powerful.

In the Levant the cult of Asherah was competition and also a threat to those wishing to worship just the male God - even Fryans had Wralda.

Fryans would not turn Mothers into Goddesses, as the Nyhellenia/Athena example shows.

Let's not forget the part we should give out best attention to.

What do you think the priests did then? That I must tell you, and you must give your best attention to it. Moreover, you must keep guard against their acts and their tricks with all the strength that Wr-alda has given you.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 March 2013 - 04:51 PM.

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#2904    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:55 PM

Thinking more on Munster and it being a fairly recent town, I'm trying to think of some other candidates for Mannagardawrda.

Mannheim? It might not be old enough either but it is recorded from 766. It's in the Baden Rhine area.

Early history
The name of the city was first recorded as Mannenheim in a legal transaction in 766, surviving in a twelfth-century copy in the Codex Laureshamensis from Lorsch Abbey. The name is interpreted as "the home of Manno", a short form of a Germanic name such as Hartmann or Hermann.[2] Mannheim remained a mere village throughout the Middle Ages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim

But it's near to the Neckar River and Ludwigshafen, which is older.

Early history
In antiquity, Celtic and Germanic tribes settled in the Rhine Neckar area. During the 1st century B.C. the Romans conquered the region, and a Roman auxiliary fort was constructed near the present suburb of Rheingönheim.
The Middle Ages saw the foundation of some of Ludwigshafen's future suburbs, including Oggersheim, Maudach, Oppau and Mundenheim; most of the area, however, remained swampland, its development hindered by seasonal flooding of the Rhine river.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ludwigshafen

Swampland would be fens.

Munster might be earlier than I thought and maybe another early Saxon town Paderborn is Bvda. It goes against what I thought would work linguistically with bvda being purse. Pader might be path (from pad) the river path.  It's still hard to get pad to bud - so unless the v indicates a letter a in Bvda....I dunno.

In 690, two priests called Ewald the Black and Ewald the Fair set out from Northumbria to convert their distant kin in Old Saxony to Christianity. It is recorded that at this time Old Saxony was divided into the ancient dioceses of Münster, Osnabrück, and Paderborn. However, by 695 the pagan Saxons had become extremely hostile to the Christian priests and missionaries in their midst and began to realize that their aim was to convert their over-lord and destroy their temples and religion
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Old_Saxony


I think Abe's Budesheim is a very good candidate for Bvda otherwise. Hard to get much info on it though.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Büdesheim

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 March 2013 - 06:10 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2905    Van Gorp

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 16 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Thinking more on Munster and it being a fairly recent town, I'm trying to think of some other candidates for Mannagardawrda.

Mannheim? It might not be old enough either but it is recorded from 766. It's in the Baden Rhine area.

Early history
The name of the city was first recorded as Mannenheim in a legal transaction in 766, surviving in a twelfth-century copy in the Codex Laureshamensis from Lorsch Abbey. The name is interpreted as "the home of Manno", a short form of a Germanic name such as Hartmann or Hermann.[2] Mannheim remained a mere village throughout the Middle Ages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim

But it's near to the Neckar River and Ludwigshafen, which is older.

Early history
In antiquity, Celtic and Germanic tribes settled in the Rhine Neckar area. During the 1st century B.C. the Romans conquered the region, and a Roman auxiliary fort was constructed near the present suburb of Rheingönheim.
The Middle Ages saw the foundation of some of Ludwigshafen's future suburbs, including Oggersheim, Maudach, Oppau and Mundenheim; most of the area, however, remained swampland, its development hindered by seasonal flooding of the Rhine river.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ludwigshafen

Swampland would be fens.

Munster might be earlier than I thought and maybe another early Saxon town Paderborn is Bvda. It goes against what I thought would work linguistically with bvda being purse. Pader might be path (from pad) the river path.  It's still hard to get pad to bud - so unless the v indicates a letter a in Bvda....I dunno.

In 690, two priests called Ewald the Black and Ewald the Fair set out from Northumbria to convert their distant kin in Old Saxony to Christianity. It is recorded that at this time Old Saxony was divided into the ancient dioceses of Münster, Osnabrück, and Paderborn. However, by 695 the pagan Saxons had become extremely hostile to the Christian priests and missionaries in their midst and began to realize that their aim was to convert their over-lord and destroy their temples and religion
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Old_Saxony


I think Abe's Budesheim is a very good candidate for Bvda otherwise. Hard to get much info on it though.
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Büdesheim


Now this is coincidence: i was reflecting on Buda (historic part) of city Kortrijk (mentionned earlier by Apol and Abe) and the etymologic link with the 'buidel' (purse) meaning in OLB.
It is said Buda in Kortrijk is derived from Buda like in Budapest (more like the out(er) side).  But for me Buda in Kortrijk is really in the meaning of buidel (enclosed by the water in this case).

What then (just hypothesis) could be a possible Mannagardawrda in the neighbourhood? About the city Menen is said one possible origine:
  • volgens Kan. Desmet (1864): Menheim: onder Frankische invloed, een Germaanse nederzetting langs de Leie (cfr. Manheim in Duitsland)
And when reflecting all this, Puzzler is posting about Manheim :-)


#2906    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:51 AM

View PostVan Gorp, on 16 March 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Now this is coincidence: i was reflecting on Buda (historic part) of city Kortrijk (mentionned earlier by Apol and Abe) and the etymologic link with the 'buidel' (purse) meaning in OLB.
It is said Buda in Kortrijk is derived from Buda like in Budapest (more like the out(er) side).  But for me Buda in Kortrijk is really in the meaning of buidel (enclosed by the water in this case).

What then (just hypothesis) could be a possible Mannagardawrda in the neighbourhood? About the city Menen is said one possible origine:
  • volgens Kan. Desmet (1864): Menheim: onder Frankische invloed, een Germaanse nederzetting langs de Leie (cfr. Manheim in Duitsland)
And when reflecting all this, Puzzler is posting about Manheim :-)

Interesting but I'd think wherever Mannagardawrde is, it would be in the Saxenmarken.

How about some of these Iron Age Saxon settlements?

http://archaeology.a...a/feddersen.htm

Maybe not early enough again for that particular one.

Edited by The Puzzler, 17 March 2013 - 02:46 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2907    Apol

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:57 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 16 March 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Thanks for your opinion Apol.

I like the Batavian idea but somehow the words aren't working for me. batavian is said to come from 'bad/bat'=good to better - in Frisian bet or betera:
bet-er-a

19, afries., Adj.: nhd. bessere; ne. better


This is just not going through to Buda imo. But I'm certainly open to trying some more.

What I did find was Bautzen area, with a BUD sound. In Saxony. But maybe it's too far East...

Bautzen (German pronunciation: [ˈbaʊtsən] (Posted Image listen); Upper Sorbian: Budy¨in [ˈbudɨʃin] (Posted Image listen); Lower Sorbian: Budy¨yn [ˈbudɨʃɨn], Czech: Budy¨ín, Polish: Budziszyn) is a hill-top town in eastern Saxony, Germany,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bautzen

Goda is also a place in the same area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6da

Then I'm thinking of Gotland (again) - maybe even it could be a related name. Godasburgh.

Yes, one theory says that Batavi is a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water").
But nobody really knows.

The Old Frisian bod means 'possession'. The Norwegian word bosted means a 'place of living'. In Norwegian the related word by means 'city', in Swedish it means 'a small place'. The Roman word Batavi is not reliable as a real source, because it might be a distortion.

Edited by Apol, 17 March 2013 - 03:12 AM.


#2908    The Puzzler

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 06:11 AM

View PostApol, on 17 March 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Yes, one theory says that Batavi is a derivation from batawjō ("good island", from Germanic bat- "good, excellent" and awjō "island, land near water").
But nobody really knows.

The Old Frisian bod means 'possession'. The Norwegian word bosted means a 'place of living'. In Norwegian the related word by means 'city', in Swedish it means 'a small place'. The Roman word Batavi is not reliable as a real source, because it might be a distortion.

bod is a good find - they lead to buda words. Like bode that I said before. Note bodel is much like budel and it's the o/u/V that is different - so Bvda could imo be based in this word.

bod

40, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Gebot, Angebot, Aufgebot; ne. order (N.), offer

(N.); Vw.: s. go-d-es-, lan-d-, -skip, -strÆ-d, -thing; Hw.: vgl. an. boOE, ae. bod, ahd.

bot*; Q.: S, R, H, W, E, Jur, AA 203; E.: germ. *buda-, *budam, st. N. (a),

Gebot; s. idg. *b
heudh-, V., wach sein (V.), wecken, beobachten, erkennen,

erkennen machen, Pokorny 150; W.: saterl. bad; L.: Hh 10b, Hh 136a, Hh 154, Rh

655b, AA 203

bod-a

18, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Bote, Beauftragter; ne. messenger; Vw.: s.

deken-, go-d-es-, se-nd-e-; Hw.: s. un-bod-ad; vgl. an. boOEi (1), ae. boda, anfrk.

bodo, as. bodo, ahd. boto; Q.: R, E, H, W; E.: germ. *budæ-, *budæn, *buda-,

*budan, sw. M. (n), Bote, Verkünder; s. idg. *b
heudh-, V., wach sein (V.), wecken,

beobachten, erkennen, erkennen machen, Pokorny 150; W.: nfries. bode, baade,

M., Bote; L.: Hh 10b, Rh 136a, Rh 656a

*bod-ad

, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. un-; E.: s. biõd-a

bæ-del

19, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. bewegliche Habe, Vermögen, Erbschaft, Bodel;

ne. property (N.), heritage (N.), movables (N. Pl.); Vw.: s. in-, mê-n-, -âs-k-e, -dê-l,

-ê-th, -riuch-t, -thing, -thing-ia; Hw.: vgl. as. bædal*, mnd. bodel, plattd. bödel,

böel; Q.: W; E.: germ. *budla-, *budlam, *buþla-, *buþlam, st. N. (a), Haus,

Wohnung, Hof; s. idg. *b
heu-, *bheøý-, *bhøõ-, *bhøÐ-, *bhÅu-, *bhð-, *bheøh2-, V.,

schwellen, wachsen (V.) (1), gedeihen, sein (V.), werden, wohnen, Pokorny 146;

W.: nostfries. budel, bodel; L.: Hh 10b, Rh 656a

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#2909    Knul

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:56 AM

A possible identification of Managardaforda/wrda: s. http://upload.wikime...teris_typus.jpg .

Posted Image

Marnamaris is mentioned by Claudius Ptolemaeus along the Vidrus river, which seems to be the river Marne. s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidrus .

Edited by Knul, 17 March 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#2910    Apol

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 16 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Thinking more on Munster and it being a fairly recent town, I'm trying to think of some other candidates for Mannagardawrda.

Mannheim? It might not be old enough either but it is recorded from 766. It's in the Baden Rhine area.

Early history
The name of the city was first recorded as Mannenheim in a legal transaction in 766, surviving in a twelfth-century copy in the Codex Laureshamensis from Lorsch Abbey. The name is interpreted as "the home of Manno", a short form of a Germanic name such as Hartmann or Hermann.[2] Mannheim remained a mere village throughout the Middle Ages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim

But it's near to the Neckar River and Ludwigshafen, which is older.

Early history
In antiquity, Celtic and Germanic tribes settled in the Rhine Neckar area. During the 1st century B.C. the Romans conquered the region, and a Roman auxiliary fort was constructed near the present suburb of Rheingönheim.
The Middle Ages saw the foundation of some of Ludwigshafen's future suburbs, including Oggersheim, Maudach, Oppau and Mundenheim; most of the area, however, remained swampland, its development hindered by seasonal flooding of the Rhine river.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ludwigshafen

Swampland would be fens.

Munster might be earlier than I thought and maybe another early Saxon town Paderborn is Bvda. It goes against what I thought would work linguistically with bvda being purse. Pader might be path (from pad) the river path.  It's still hard to get pad to bud - so unless the v indicates a letter a in Bvda....I dunno.

In 690, two priests called Ewald the Black and Ewald the Fair set out from Northumbria to convert their distant kin in Old Saxony to Christianity. It is recorded that at this time Old Saxony was divided into the ancient dioceses of Münster, Osnabrück, and Paderborn. However, by 695 the pagan Saxons had become extremely hostile to the Christian priests and missionaries in their midst and began to realize that their aim was to convert their over-lord and destroy their temples and religion
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Old_Saxony


I think Abe's Budesheim is a very good candidate for Bvda otherwise. Hard to get much info on it though.
http://en.wikipedia....¼desheim

There are a lot of candidates for Bvda if one shall look at the name only:
Büderich in Wesel
Büderich in Meerbusch near Düsseldorf
Büderich in Werl
Büderich (Péry) in Switzerland
Büecke at Möhnesee
Budingswolde (Dijkhuizen) in Drenthe
Bodman at the Bodensee
Bodolz at the Bodensee
Bodenburg near Bad Salzdetfurth
Botenlauben, Bad Kissingen
Bodendorf (now Bad Bodendorf), Sinzig, Rheinland-Pfalz
Bodenheim, Mainz-Bingen, Rheinland-Pfalz
Budenheim, Mainz-Bingen, Rheinland-Pfalz
Büdesheim (Biddesem), Bingen am Rhein
Büdesheim, Schöneck in Hessen
Bodersweiler, Baden-Württemberg
Bodenberg, Schladern, Windeck
Büdenholz, Brachbach
Bodenthal north of Bingen, Rheinland-Pfalz
Buding in Moselle, France
Budersberg, Luxembourg
Büdingen in Hessen

The densest concentration of Büde-, Bode-, Bude- names is in the Bingen area of Rheinland-Pfalz
Posted Image

Edited by Apol, 17 March 2013 - 02:26 PM.





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