Religion+Politics

[Grandpa Greenman]

DieChecker, on 08 January 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

I think the problem would be that those people who are ruining Christianity, would also ruin Paganism. The same people would seek authority and leadership. And the same people would put their own power clutching spin on Paganism. And so it really doesn't matter the religion (in my opinion only) because when it goes as big as Christianity or Islam, or Hinduism, your going to have people ruin it for everyone else.

Perhaps I am wrong though and Paganism is the religion that will not be corrupted and used as a political tool, and co-opted by power seeking authority graspers....

Anything can be corrupted, because power and it's quest corrupts. I can only speak for myself from experience of having been active on the political scene. I don't vote based on someone's religion and part of that is based on my religious outlook. The reason Pagans don't proselytize is in most (notice I say most) philosophy the soul is on a personal quest for wisdom. How you do that is up to you. Paganism is a mystery religion. When someone comes to me I will assist, but it up to the individual to experience and reason it out. I work through nature, it is my sacred book. So, when I vote I look for those share my views on issues like environment, social justice, health care, etc. What religion they are is irrelevant as long as the issues are on track.

I am voting for the Jewish socialist. That to me, is almost voting for Jesus (Jewish socialist). I am hiring someone to do a job. Do you hire someone to rewire your house, because their a good Christian or because they are a good electrician. If a Pagan comes up on a ticket, but his track record is he has been working for polluters, I'm not voting for him. I don't think many of my savvy political Pagan friends who would. I am amazed how people are fooled by people who run the on coattails of religion. My guess is they are just lazy and don't really look at the job record passed the sound bite. Go to church on Sunday, whatever they want, just come monday how about fixing the pothole at the end of the street before someone breaks an axle.

Paganism has no centralized leadership or sacred book to tell them how to vote. That is one thing working for it. Reason and independent thinking are virtues in most Pagan thought or I would like to think so anyway. Society is sheep, wolves and dogs.

Edited January 8, 2016 by GreenmansGod

[Lilly]

Most people I know don't really apply their religious beliefs to their daily lives anyway. So, religion influencing politics becomes a moot point for most folks. Besides, we're supposed to be following the Constitution (here in the USA) anyway.

[eight bits]

GmG

I am voting for the Jewish socialist. That to me, is almost voting for Jesus (Jewish socialist).

Best line ever, dude .

[Grandpa Greenman]

Most people I know don't really apply their religious beliefs to their daily lives anyway. So, religion influencing politics becomes a moot point for most folks. Besides, we're supposed to be following the Constitution (here in the USA) anyway.

From the people elected in my State this doesn't seem to hold true. The more religion that oozes from the political ads the more votes they seem to get. I find it disgusting.

[ellapenella]

From the people elected in my State this doesn't seem to hold true. The more religion that oozes from the political ads the more votes they seem to get. I find it disgusting.

I haven't seen any religious ads,anywhere.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Ellapennella

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Anything can be corrupted, because power and it's quest corrupts. I can only speak for myself from experience of having been active on the political scene. I don't vote based on someone's religion and part of that is based on my religious outlook. The reason Pagans don't proselytize is in most (notice I say most) philosophy the soul is on a personal quest for wisdom. How you do that is up to you. Paganism is a mystery religion. When someone comes to me I will assist, but it up to the individual to experience and reason it out. I work through nature, it is my sacred book. So, when I vote I look for those share my views on issues like environment, social justice, health care, etc. What religion they are is irrelevant as long as the issues are on track.

I am voting for the Jewish socialist. That to me, is almost voting for Jesus (Jewish socialist). I am hiring someone to do a job. Do you hire someone to rewire your house, because their a good Christian or because they are a good electrician. If a Pagan comes up on a ticket, but his track record is he has been working for polluters, I'm not voting for him. I don't think many of my savvy political Pagan friends who would. I am amazed how people are fooled by people who run the on coattails of religion. My guess is they are just lazy and don't really look at the job record passed the sound bite. Go to church on Sunday, whatever they want, just come monday how about fixing the pothole at the end of the street before someone breaks an axle.

Paganism has no centralized leadership or sacred book to tell them how to vote. That is one thing working for it. Reason and independent thinking are virtues in most Pagan thought or I would like to think so anyway. Society is sheep, wolves and dogs.

Well the one thing I will definitely take note here, is to agree that the religion should not be a deal breaker or what ever. I don't even understand why it is in this country. We're secular, and though we have the right to believe and practice (or not to, must make that noticiable too ) what we would like to, it shouldn't be something that would be the defining part of someone.

Yeah, it could be something that helps the be wonderful or not, but in the end, it's the person themselves.

I still get angry that an Atheist nominee wont get a second look. I see that a lot, and that is how I am with that. It also p***es me off. Unfortunately, I think once there is a Pagan nominee, ( and I think there should be lots, my personal feeling of course ) there will be a heyday in the media and everywhere.

But I feel, your OP is spot on!

Most people I know don't really apply their religious beliefs to their daily lives anyway. So, religion influencing politics becomes a moot point for most folks. Besides, we're supposed to be following the Constitution (here in the USA) anyway.

You would think, right?

Unfortunately, and I'm getting this from my point of view, I'm not seeing that.

[Ashotep]

I never vote on religious beliefs, politicians bringing their religion into the campaign turns me off. I feel like they are saying 'hey I'm religious so I won't screw you over,' tell me another one. I'm fine with them being a religious person but don't force it on me or pass laws to hold the religious and their beliefs above the non religious.

[Leonardo]

Paganism is a mystery religion.

Which is how you keep faith from becoming politicised into a religion. When each person is left to seek their own answers as to what the divine might be/what meaning the divine has to them then you don't have any religion, just a whole lotta faith.

As soon as any faith releases a manifesto proclaiming what the divine demands of it's subjects, it crosses the boundary of faith into politics. Those politicians who use their faith to attract voters are not really people of faith, but people of politics. And many religions are conducive to be used politically because they are political instruments, not what I would call "true faiths".

[Podo]

Canadian political campaigns are a lot different than American ones. Ours are usually only 37 days long, though in the one we just had Harper lengthened it to 78 days, and that felt like a real slog.

That being said, I have never once in my life seen a political ad in Canada that included even the vaguest mention of religion, not counting a reference to our anthem (which contains the line "God keep our land glorious and free"). Harper, our previous tyrant Prime Minster, was suuuuuper religious, and it definitely affected his politics, but it was never something that was really talked about or brought up in public. Historically we take a dim view of the mixing of religion and politics, and those who cross that line tend to get condemned by the population.

Regardless, religion messing with politics is not something that really comes up in Canada. Not in my adult life, anyway.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Podo

[ellapenella]

Well the one thing I will definitely take note here, is to agree that the religion should not be a deal breaker or what ever. I don't even understand why it is in this country. We're secular, and though we have the right to believe and practice (or not to, must make that noticiable too ) what we would like to, it shouldn't be something that would be the defining part of someone.

Yeah, it could be something that helps the be wonderful or not, but in the end, it's the person themselves.

I still get angry that an Atheist nominee wont get a second look. I see that a lot, and that is how I am with that. It also p***es me off. Unfortunately, I think once there is a Pagan nominee, ( and I think there should be lots, my personal feeling of course ) there will be a heyday in the media and everywhere.

But I feel, your OP is spot on!

You would think, right?

Unfortunately, and I'm getting this from my point of view, I'm not seeing that.

Was wondering, are you all for the non vetted refugees that are really islamic at heart coming here?

[ellapenella]

I never vote on religious beliefs, politicians bringing their religion into the campaign turns me off. I feel like they are saying 'hey I'm religious so I won't screw you over,' tell me another one. I'm fine with them being a religious person but don't force it on me or pass laws to hold the religious and their beliefs above the non religious.

Do you even recall any religious policy being forced onto anyone here in the U.S? I don't.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Was wondering, are you all for the non vetted refugees that are really islamic at heart coming here?

That is a question that is hard to answer for me. I find there are so many variables that come up on both sides. I feel they should be closely looked at, but on the other, if it's between life and death for them, why hold back?

I'm thinking, why should they suffer because of a few of them that are faking it to be violent?

Then again, I always have a slight look at it differently, when something does happen.

And considering, that almost half of the shootings that occur over here are from mentally unhinged Americans, I think we need to closely look at a lot of things.

Again, in the end, it's very complicated, and one answer and one side is hard for me to come to. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel.

Do you even recall any religious policy being forced onto anyone here in the U.S? I don't.

This site seems to list some that Bush is accused of: http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/266/the-bush-presidency-undermining-the-separation-between-church-and-state

This site seems to be saying something of Bush's 'faith based initiative' that I remember from his term.

https://www.au.org/resources/publications/the-faith-based-initiative

I find the last line, pretty much sums up what I saw during those years.

"

"I don't think Bush has set out to reshape church and state relationships, but by doing the kind of politics that he's been doing, there are some strong implications," says the University of Akron's Green. Those implications were summarized, in their most radical form, by Pat Robertson in his l992 book, The New World Order. There, Robertson wrote, "There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." America is certainly on top of the world, and with George W. Bush in the White House, religious conservatives are standing there with him. ~ "

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/America/W's_Christian_Nation.html

[EEHC]

That being said, I have never once in my life seen a political ad in Canada that included even the vaguest mention of religion, not counting a reference to our anthem (which contains the line "God keep our land glorious and free"). Harper, our previous tyrant Prime Minster, was suuuuuper religious, and it definitely affected his politics, but it was never something that was really talked about or brought up in public. Historically we take a dim view of the mixing of religion and politics, and those who cross that line tend to get condemned by the population.

I know that in Quebec, secularity is a big deal. Religion is a no-no in politics. Probably because our institutions used to be runned by the Catholic Chuch. Sisters were our teachers, nurses and mental health professionals up until the 1940s-1950s and the Bishops' influence in politics was shaping our policies.

In 1945 Quebec's Prime Minister Maurice Duplessis with archbishop Joseph Charbonneau

Edited January 8, 2016 by EEHC

[Ashotep]

Do you even recall any religious policy being forced onto anyone here in the U.S? I don't.

Some of them wear their religion on their sleeves and their policies do reflect their religious beliefs. Already some businesses are allowed to deny their insurance paying for certain types of birth control to their employees because it goes against their faith. Then there's Planned Parenthood, some don't think women should take birth control at all or be allowed to get an abortion for any reason because of their faith. Some in Washington would love to defund it because of faith. Then look at the states that tried to pass bills making it legal to discriminate against gays all based on religion.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/states-push-anti-gay-bills-will-they-pass

That is the context in which so-called religious freedom bills are being considered in Arizona and numerous other states.

The bills, which would allow business owners to refuse service to gays or other groups that offend their religious beliefs, appear discriminatory on their face.

http://www.npr.org/2014/02/25/282523501/religious-freedom-bills-rooted-in-obama-era-fears

[Mr Walker]

The american constitution separates the state from religion only by barring the " making of" or "restricting/ interfering with" religions ie the government cannot mandate a state religion, but nor can it control or stop religious forms in the USA .

The USA is explicitly a "god fearing nation", not a secular one, as many other indicators of government illustrate. But any american also has the right to disbelieve, express that disbelief freely, and act on that disbelief ,without any fear of government intervention .

The right to be an atheist is really only an ancillary to the right of any american to believe (and live by) what they choose. It is just that the government must not form an alliance with any one religion nor act against any religions This was a carry over from the foundation of america as a place of refuge from the national religions of Europe. by people choosing ALTERNATIVE religious expressions.

Not only can elected representatives hold religious viewpoints, they can be expected to ACT upon those beliefs in the formulation of policy They have the same freedoms and protections as any america citizen in this regard. It would be more ethical if they clearly spelled out their religious beliefs before any election, but this is not really obligatory, any more than spelling out views on any issue. it informs voters on how the representative MIGHT act if he sticks to his expressed views.

[Mr Walker]

Do you even recall any religious policy being forced onto anyone here in the U.S? I don't.

Do you have Sundays in america ? Is there any difference in pay, for working on a Sunday? Have shops always been able to open freely on Sundays ?

Wasn't it once illegal in some states to use other than the missionary position while having sex ? . Aren't many movies and books stilll censored.?

In how many places can a person walk down main street naked without being arrested? Of course religious driven beliefs and attitudes help construct american laws. and thus is forced on people with different values and beliefs.

I mean, what harm does my walking naked down the street do to anyone, (except those who might die laughing?) .

[Ashotep]

Use to you couldn't keep a business that wasn't necessary open or buy alcohol on Sundays. In many towns drinking a beer on your porch is still illegal because of religion. Of course restaurants were necessary so the religious would have a place to go after church.

[Mr Walker]

Use to you couldn't keep a business that wasn't necessary open or buy alcohol on Sundays. In many towns drinking a beer on your porch is still illegal because of religion. Of course restaurants were necessary so the religious would have a place to go after church.

yes; my point was simple One of the clearest indicators of religious influence on american socio- economic life has been the long lasting separation of Sunday as a day of significant difference, because of its religious history and connection to the bible (or more accurately to catholic reinterpretation of the biblical sabbath day). . This is a direct religious observance affecting every citizen. If you were in a Jewish state, it would be Friday evening 'til Saturday evening. Islam doesn't have a specific day of rest, but Friday is their holy day of the week.

[Grandpa Greenman]

I mean, what harm does my walking naked down the street do to anyone, (except those who might die laughing?) .

Sundays aren't as big a deal as they were when I was a kid. Some places pay extra for Sundays, some don't. When I was kid most places would be closed on Sundays and no liquor sales, now it is more like just another day. It is kind of sad, because families had a day to get together. Our house was pleasant country drive from the city and friends and family used to stop by Sundays.

[+DieChecker]

Anything can be corrupted, because power and it's quest corrupts. I can only speak for myself from experience of having been active on the political scene. I don't vote based on someone's religion and part of that is based on my religious outlook.

I usually vote based on what I read about the person in the voters pamphlet. Usually there are many who publish PRO and CON opinions there and I decide who I want to believe. Religion... here in Oregon... usually, as far as I can tell, only comes into the equation in Presidential races.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Sundays aren't as big a deal as they were when I was a kid. Some places pay extra for Sundays, some don't. When I was kid most places would be closed on Sundays and no liquor sales, now it is more like just another day. It is kind of sad, because families had a day to get together. Our house was pleasant country drive from the city and friends and family used to stop by Sundays.

Of course, that depends on the area of the country too. The north east was a bit more easily doing things on Sundays than other areas. Though it took Connecticut just a few years ago to sell alcohol on Sundays. Jersey had been doing it for years. I had to get use to that moving back.

With the fact that the nation is secular, it is not something to see as Sundays as not any other day. As a retail employee, I certainly don't.

I remember my mother always keeping us inside on Sunday mornings, cause she didn't want others to see we weren't in church. Of course, these days that is something that shouldn't even get a double look. The more I think about it, the more I think how wrong we should have been worried about that. The country was always secular by law, I believe.

[+Sherapy]

yes; my point was simple One of the clearest indicators of religious influence on american socio- economic life has been the long lasting separation of Sunday as a day of significant difference, because of its religious history and connection to the bible (or more accurately to catholic reinterpretation of the biblical sabbath day). . This is a direct religious observance affecting every citizen. If you were in a Jewish state, it would be Friday evening 'til Saturday evening. Islam doesn't have a specific day of rest, but Friday is their holy day of the week.

Where I am ( California) Saturday's and Sunday's were/are party time. Working Sunday's is the norm this goes way back to when I was a kid.

[XenoFish]

South Carolina sucks in this aspect. Can't buy booze on Sunday and everything closes early. A church on every corner. So much so that you can almost feel religion it in the air. I love my state but we are backwards sometimes.

[back to earth]

Sundays aren't as big a deal as they were when I was a kid. Some places pay extra for Sundays, some don't. When I was kid most places would be closed on Sundays and no liquor sales, now it is more like just another day. It is kind of sad, because families had a day to get together. Our house was pleasant country drive from the city and friends and family used to stop by Sundays.

years back , I had a reverse Christian work ethic going. I got it set up so I worked on Sunday and had the other 6 days off . Made enough money on Sunday to do it too ! (But back then I was young, lived in a caravan, had a motorbike, always had; a GF, a six pack in the fridge, weed, a river and beach near by. What more could a young lad want ? )

Nowadays I have retired; I still have six days a week off but on Sunday, I usually go fishing or something.

[back to earth]

South Carolina sucks in this aspect. Can't buy booze on Sunday and everything closes early. A church on every corner. So much so that you can almost feel religion it in the air. I love my state but we are backwards sometimes.

Cant you duck into the church for some wine ?

https://eartstohear.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/wpid-photo-20150213102702225.jpg