64 replies to this topic

[Yamato]

I'm really enjoying the 'Meet the Crew' series, highlighting every crew member of the SSS Steve Irwin for their service on this Youtube channel.   Hope someone else appreciates it too.  

[Timonthy]

They apparently killed a whale in Australian waters recently.

Can't provide link from iPhone, but it was a couple of days ago.

Hopefully they can be convinced to stop someday.

[Yamato]

Timonthy, on 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

They apparently killed a whale in Australian waters recently.

Can't provide link from iPhone, but it was a couple of days ago.

Hopefully they can be convinced to stop someday.

Australia is the only nation stepping up to do anything to stop it.   Every move Australia makes is a reason to cheer.  Japan has no respect for the Australian EEZ much less a global moratorium on whaling, much less still, whaling in a whale sanctuary.   Until Japan is thrashed in court, Sea Shepherd is the only game in town doing something to stop these criminals.

[psyche101]

Timonthy, on 18 February 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

They apparently killed a whale in Australian waters recently.

Can't provide link from iPhone, but it was a couple of days ago.

Hopefully they can be convinced to stop someday.

Davis station is off Antarctica. It's not a recognised claim any more then owning a piece of land on the moon. Australia is only going to anger the Japanese further and the situation will worsen, but that tends to happen when the Sea Shepard shows up.

Quote

Environment Minister Tony Burke said the focus should not be on which part of the ocean this happened.
"It doesn't matter what part of the ocean it is in, Australia's view is that it is just as illegal," Mr Burke told reporters.
"That's why we have taken Japan to the International Court of Justice.
"I think it would be a terrible situation if we started to go down the path of arguing that in one part of the ocean we thought whaling was okay and in others it wasn't."

Silly thing to say. We do not have the right to tell the world where they may fish. Burke is a fool. That is not Australia's view, I for one do not feel comfortable with imposing fishing restrictions on the rest of the world. That is what ended the moratorium and got the Japanese whaling again when they had stopped.

[psyche101]

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

Australia is the only nation stepping up to do anything to stop it.   Every move Australia makes is a reason to cheer.  Japan has no respect for the Australian EEZ much less a global moratorium on whaling, much less still, whaling in a whale sanctuary.   Until Japan is thrashed in court, Sea Shepherd is the only game in town doing something to stop these criminals.

Not every move. Only legal action or negotiation will end whaling. Negotiation would be preferable by far, but as long as we harbour the Sea Shepard negotiations will not begin.

[Yamato]

psyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Not every move. Only legal action or negotiation will end whaling. Negotiation would be preferable by far, but as long as we harbour the Sea Shepard negotiations will not begin.

You imply that what Sea Shepherd does is illegal.  It is not.  But if it is, arrest them then.   What's the matter with Australia harboring criminals!?   And good luck with that case too btw, a backfire of epic proportions if there ever was one.

As for ending whaling, SSCS is the only game in town.  With Australia taking Japan to court, Japan would be making 100% of their kill quota every year because they burn enough fuel and care enough to make sure their self-confined slaughter is profitable.   Even the Japanese government admitted SSCS is effective.  They returned with less than 30% of their quota the last two years and rely utterly on taxpayer subsidies to keep their illegal operation afloat.   Watson has already sunk the fleet economically.  Only by the grace of the proud and stubborn regime in Tokyo and other peoples' money do they send their ships over 7,000 miles away from Japan to find a whale to kill.

[Yamato]

psyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Davis station is off Antarctica. It's not a recognised claim any more then owning a piece of land on the moon. Australia is only going to anger the Japanese further and the situation will worsen, but that tends to happen when the Sea Shepard shows up.





Silly thing to say. We do not have the right to tell the world where they may fish. Burke is a fool. That is not Australia's view, I for one do not feel comfortable with imposing fishing restrictions on the rest of the world. That is what ended the moratorium and got the Japanese whaling again when they had stopped.

Old people in Japan with a taste for whale meat got that from federal government subsidies during the war days of imperial Japan, rich in protein, it kept people alive so the Imperial Japanese military could run around the world slaughtering people in its expansionist wars.   If a few people are angered for someone enforcing the law and preventing that proud and ugly tradition from continuing, that's their problem.   I wouldn't let my kid get within smelling distance of a piece of toxic heavy-metal laden whale meat.  Unless I didn't mind his IQ dropping a few points from his dinner.  Some education about the ecosystem, the history, the health hazards, and the law are all appropriate to this topic.

[psyche101]

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

You imply that what Sea Shepherd does is illegal.  It is not.  But if it is, arrest them then.  

Yes it is, and many SS crew members including Watson have indeed spent time in jail. Interpol has a warrant for Watson right now, he has been in hiding since the SS docked in Germany late last year. He hides in International waters, and has been dodging that charge since 2002. He carries weapons, and has sunk ships. Yes he is indeed a criminal, no two ways about it.

And they are not in Australian waters when they harass the Japanese. The Japanese do not fish in Internationally recognised Australian waters. The media has that totally wrong. Sells papers though. Watson has no right to be ordering countries around. No wonder the Japanese continue to whale to spite the SS.

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

What's the matter with Australia harboring criminals!?  

Is that some sort of twisted convict joke is it? I am not of English decent in any case. My parents are imports form the 50's from Poland and the USSR. In Russia, whale hunt you.

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

And good luck with that case too btw, a backfire of epic proportions if there ever was one.

What are you referring to?

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

As for ending whaling, SSCS is the only game in town.  

Never heard of the people that kicked Watson out for being over the top so he had to create his own band of rednecks?

You do not know who Greenpeace is? They are the ones who are more successful than Watson without the violence, TV shows, and fanfare. Watson is a media whore, not sure how people do not see that as plainly obvious. I take it you did not hear about Greenpeace sending people into Japan and taking samples from restaurants to prove that the meat is being sold, and not being used for research? Embarrassed Japan immensely that, without Watson firing them up, we might have had a chance at that point to get Japan back to the table, and try to reinstate the moratorium that stopped Japan whaling back in the 80's.

That;s right, the only time Whaling has ever stopped had absolutely nothing to do with the Sea Shepard who has been out there banging their drum and throwing rancid butter for 30 more years now. They do not seem to be doing much more than anger the Japanese from what I have seen in this period of time. Negotiations had Japan agree to stop whaling, you know what made them start again? The US told them where they could fish, and where they could not. That's what the Sea Shepard is doing right now, ensuring the Whaling never stops. You know what? I bet Watson is painfully aware of this, and does not give a hoot. Ever seen him try to negotiate peacefully? How do you react to bullies?

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

With Australia taking Japan to court, Japan would be making 100% of their kill quota every year because they burn enough fuel and care enough to make sure their self-confined slaughter is profitable.  

Yeah, what a great idea huh?

Quote

However the real battle will be fought at the IWC's June annual meeting in Morocco, where Canberra admits the chances of achieving Australia's objective of a complete ban on Antarctic whaling are "slim''.
Rather, there is a growing likelihood most of the 88 member nations will support a "chairman's proposal'' allowing Japan to replace its legally questionable scientific-whaling programme with IWC commercial whaling quotas.
If the vote succeeds by a three-quarters majority and the Japanese accept the compromise, they will no longer be doing scientific whaling in the Southern Ocean next summer - but still killing hundred of whales

LINK

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

Even the Japanese government admitted SSCS is effective.  

No they have not, they have said the Sea Shepard cost 20 million in damages, some reporter filled in the rest. And how do you not see that aggravating the current situation?

How many whales would have been saved if the moratorium was maintained?

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

They returned with less than 30% of their quota the last two years and rely utterly on taxpayer subsidies to keep their illegal operation afloat.   Watson has already sunk the fleet economically.  Only by the grace of the proud and stubborn regime in Tokyo and other peoples' money do they send their ships over 7,000 miles away from Japan to find a whale to kill.

We are talking about a nations pride, what's the cost on that in Japan? They will go broke before they bow to someone like Watson. That is the key. Talking to Japan on their own terms, it stopped Japan whaling before, why would it not work done right? The Seas Shepard has been at this for decades, and only now they are making a dent? What do you think would happen to Australia if Japan went broke, and pulled back all its car manufacture and electronics industry? Australia would also go broke overnight.

Edited by psyche101, 20 February 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[psyche101]

Yamato, on 19 February 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Old people in Japan with a taste for whale meat got that from federal government subsidies during the war days of imperial Japan, rich in protein, it kept people alive so the Imperial Japanese military could run around the world slaughtering people in its expansionist wars.   If a few people are angered for someone enforcing the law and preventing that proud and ugly tradition from continuing, that's their problem.   I wouldn't let my kid get within smelling distance of a piece of toxic heavy-metal laden whale meat.  Unless I didn't mind his IQ dropping a few points from his dinner.  Some education about the ecosystem, the history, the health hazards, and the law are all appropriate to this topic.

What are you talking about? Japan has been whaling since the 12th century. It's one man thinking he can tell a nation what to do is where the problem lies. Watson is too big for his boots. He only aggravates a bad situation.

[Yamato]

psyche101, on 20 February 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

What are you talking about? Japan has been whaling since the 12th century. It's one man thinking he can tell a nation what to do is where the problem lies. Watson is too big for his boots. He only aggravates a bad situation.

Japan has been whaling since the Global Moratorium on commercial whaling began.   Other countries have been whaling since the 12th century too, so that doesn't confer Japan any exception to the law.   Paul Watson has the authority to enforce the law.   Read the World Charter for Nature.

[Yamato]

psyche101, on 20 February 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Yes it is, and many SS crew members including Watson have indeed spent time in jail. Interpol has a warrant for Watson right now, he has been in hiding since the SS docked in Germany late last year. He hides in International waters, and has been dodging that charge since 2002. He carries weapons, and has sunk ships. Yes he is indeed a criminal, no two ways about it.

And they are not in Australian waters when they harass the Japanese. The Japanese do not fish in Internationally recognised Australian waters. The media has that totally wrong. Sells papers though. Watson has no right to be ordering countries around. No wonder the Japanese continue to whale to spite the SS.



Is that some sort of twisted convict joke is it? I am not of English decent in any case. My parents are imports form the 50's from Poland and the USSR. In Russia, whale hunt you.



What are you referring to?



Never heard of the people that kicked Watson out for being over the top so he had to create his own band of rednecks?

You do not know who Greenpeace is? They are the ones who are more successful than Watson without the violence, TV shows, and fanfare. Watson is a media whore, not sure how people do not see that as plainly obvious. I take it you did not hear about Greenpeace sending people into Japan and taking samples from restaurants to prove that the meat is being sold, and not being used for research? Embarrassed Japan immensely that, without Watson firing them up, we might have had a chance at that point to get Japan back to the table, and try to reinstate the moratorium that stopped Japan whaling back in the 80's.

That;s right, the only time Whaling has ever stopped had absolutely nothing to do with the Sea Shepard who has been out there banging their drum and throwing rancid butter for 30 more years now. They do not seem to be doing much more than anger the Japanese from what I have seen in this period of time. Negotiations had Japan agree to stop whaling, you know what made them start again? The US told them where they could fish, and where they could not. That's what the Sea Shepard is doing right now, ensuring the Whaling never stops. You know what? I bet Watson is painfully aware of this, and does not give a hoot. Ever seen him try to negotiate peacefully? How do you react to bullies?




Yeah, what a great idea huh?



LINK



No they have not, they have said the Sea Shepard cost 20 million in damages, some reporter filled in the rest. And how do you not see that aggravating the current situation?

How many whales would have been saved if the moratorium was maintained?



We are talking about a nations pride, what's the cost on that in Japan? They will go broke before they bow to someone like Watson. That is the key. Talking to Japan on their own terms, it stopped Japan whaling before, why would it not work done right? The Seas Shepard has been at this for decades, and only now they are making a dent? What do you think would happen to Australia if Japan went broke, and pulled back all its car manufacture and electronics industry? Australia would also go broke overnight.

How do you maintain a moratorium?   You confront the criminals in a whale sanctuary and shut them down.  You don't document the slaughter, and take pictures, and paint rainbows, and beg and plead for them to stop killing whales because they won't.   If Japan has to go broke, then they're well on their way to that already.   Kudos to Watson for speeding up that process.

The percentage they get of their quota is reported by the Japanese themselves.   They couldn't even haul 20% of what they wanted on Sea Shepherd's banner year.  At over 1000 whales per quota, do the math.   Even lowballing the $$ per whale, that's 200 million dollars of losses in one year alone.  I don't know what "damages" are, but I wouldn't call not reaching one's quota "damages".

As for your other comments sucking up to criminal poachers, they're baseless and need evidence to be believed.  The Japanese are whaling in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary.  What part of the word "sanctuary" can you not understand?   You don't have a lick of respect for international law, for exclusive economic zones, for whale sanctuaries, for charters for nature or for global moratoriums on whaling.   There's all the rules and regulations already on the books I could ask for, all that's missing is government will to scrape themselves off the lazy mat and do something about it.   Until then, Sea Shepherd gets the job done.

Claiming that Japan doesn't illegally whale in Australian waters is making Australian sources for information sound unreliable.   Sorry, I trust what Australian officials have to say regardless of your still-baseless opinion about the matter.   I trust Australia's better judgment not to let Japanese whaling ships make port on its shores.  Whether Australia is effective legally against Japan remains to be seen, but in the meantime Sea Shepherd will keep the slaughter to a minimum.   It's really stretching the value of your opinion and missing the point to state that damaging Japan's economy is going to damage Australia's by extension, so therefore Sea Shepherd is somehow ineffective.   Japan is wasting its own money by insisting on their poaching operation.   When it stops, the bleeding stops.  In order to understand this correctly, you must understand who the clientele of Sea Shepherd is.  It's not the Australian economy and it's not the Japanese government.  It's whales, dolphins, sharks, tuna, seals, turtles, reefs and beaches around the world. Making Japanese whaling ships chase after activists with water guns instead of whaling is the point.   That's what saves the lives of SSCS's clientele.

As for the comment about Paul Watson being a "criminal", that's a very selective view of what laws you care about from what laws you don't.  Police who enthusiastically enforce the law aren't breaking the law when they're enforcing it, even though their actions would clearly be violating the law it they weren't enforcing it. The logic is the same for Paul Watson.   Call him whatever you want, it doesn't matter to him and it doesn't matter to any of his supporters.   Sea Shepherd has put a planet-wide spotlight on this issue unprecedented in history; putting millions of supporters from across the globe into his wheelhouse and shining a light on an issue that the world would have otherwise remained ignorant of and derelict to. Watson isn't a criminal, he's a legend.  He's the greatest conservationist on the planet, one of the greatest who ever lived.

As for the other nonsensical charges that have been made against Watson from 2002, you should really do some homework about this case so you know something about it.   Sharkwater is a legitimate conservationist campaign and award winning film that has uncovered illegal shark poaching operations where Watson was authorized by Ecuador to arrest shark finners entering their waters and he just so happened to have a run-in with Costa Rican shark finning thugs.   Let the melee ensue, because in order to create any kind of worthwhile change in civil society, you have to confront the powers that be, and you have to suffer for it.   This is no different than the suffragettes who had to suffer physically in jail cells to get the rights they deserved.   All social change requires a battle, not the abject laziness and selective ignorance you'd prefer.

http://www.sharkwater.com/awards.htm

Edited by Yamato, 28 February 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Yamato]

Nisshin Maru Rams Bob Barker and Sun Laurel

[Yamato]

When elephant poaching equipment is destroyed, I don't hear any whining going on.   When an elephant poacher gets a bullet through the head, I don't hear anyone crying me a river.   These are poachers, plain and simple.  They must be stopped like any other poacher.   The ONLY reason why people can't respect Sea Shepherd is because they're a privately owned voluntary force of unpaid volunteers willing to risk their lives on their contracts to save a whale, as opposed to being in a big shiny grey warship and from the gobmint and here to help, courtesy of the taxpayers, or you know, "legitimate".

[psyche101]

Yamato, on 28 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Japan has been whaling since the Global Moratorium on commercial whaling began.  

Longer than that.

Yamato, on 28 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Other countries have been whaling since the 12th century too, so that doesn't confer Japan any exception to the law.  

Never said it did. I want whaling to stop, that is why I would rather see the Sea Shepard grounded.

Yamato, on 28 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Paul Watson has the authority to enforce the law.   Read the World Charter for Nature.

Gosh, it is not an International law, it is a voluntary guideline. So, no, he does not. he abuses it from time to time once Spain put him onto it.

And the Sea Shepard contravenes both of these items from it.


     ©  Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the
conservation of nature and the protection of the environment;

     (d)  Ensure that activities within their jurisdictions or control do not
cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the
areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;

LINK to the Charter.

[Yamato]

psyche101, on 01 March 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Longer than that.



Never said it did. I want whaling to stop, that is why I would rather see the Sea Shepard grounded.



Gosh, it is not an International law, it is a voluntary guideline. So, no, he does not. he abuses it from time to time once Spain put him onto it.

And the Sea Shepard contravenes both of these items from it.


©  Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the
conservation of nature and the protection of the environment;

(d)  Ensure that activities within their jurisdictions or control do not
cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the
areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;

LINK to the Charter.

psyche101, on 01 March 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Longer than that.



Never said it did. I want whaling to stop, that is why I would rather see the Sea Shepard grounded.



Gosh, it is not an International law, it is a voluntary guideline. So, no, he does not. he abuses it from time to time once Spain put him onto it.

And the Sea Shepard contravenes both of these items from it.


©  Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the
conservation of nature and the protection of the environment;

(d)  Ensure that activities within their jurisdictions or control do not
cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the
areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;

LINK to the Charter.

Longer than that, yes,   So let's differentiate between the time before the Global Moratorium and the time after, otherwise that's another sign that you don't care about the rule of law.

It's a voluntary guideline, and Paul Watson volunteers as guided.  That's no supposition of illegality.  The law confers with Paul Watson on every level.

Those provisions you cherry-picked out of the document confer with what Paul Watson does more than the reverse.   You lay these eggs and don't even give examples of your accusations.   The Charter authorizes in plain English what Watson does.  You need to read what you link to.  I've already read it, and it's crystal clear.   Whether and precisely how it's binding hasn't been challenged; but that lack of precedence gives you no right to throw it away as meaningless or non-existent, and that doesn't automatically defer the benefit of the doubt to your bias.