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Unsolved Cosmonaut Report -- UnexplainABLE?


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#1    JimOberg

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:10 PM

Here's one I'm still wondering about:



Vladimir kovalyonok:

“On May 5, 1981, we were in orbit [in the Salyut-6]. I saw an object that didn’t resemble any cosmic objects I’m familiar with. It was a round object which resembled a melon, round and a little bit elongated. In front of this object was something that resembled a gyrating depressed cone, I can draw it, it’s difficult to describe. The object resembles a barbell. I saw it becoming transparent and like with a ‘body’ inside. At the other end I saw something like gas discharging, like a reactive object. Then something happened that is very difficult for me to describe from the point of view of physics… I have to recognize that it did not have an artificial origin. It was not artificial because an artificial object couldn’t attain this form. I don’t know of anything that can make this movement… tightening, then expanding, pulsating. Then as I was observing something happened, two explosions. One explosion, and then 0.5 seconds later, the second part exploded. I called my colleague Viktor [Savinykh], but he didn’t arrive in time to see anything.

“What are the particulars? First conclusion: the object moved in a suborbital path, otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to see it.  There were two clouds, like smoke, that formed a barbell. It came near me and I watched it. Then we entered into the shade for two or three minutes after this happened. When we came out of the shade we didn’t see anything.  But during a certain time, we and the craft were moving together.”
http://www.openminds...ard-journal.jpg



I continue to seek declassified info from various agencies on possible South African missile test launches from Overberg [http://en.wikipedia....erg_Test_Range] in the 1980-1 period, to see if there's any correlation. So far, those that know still won't say.



#2    1963

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:06 PM

That's an interesting case Jim. Thanks for posting it, but do you mind my asking just what makes this case [among the multitude of other online cosmonaut claims] any more interesting to  you?

I admit that it is It is one that I don't recall reading before, and had to look it up. And immediately found a discrepancy that i'll follow up later.
It is that in a few similar tellings of this tale, Kovalenok said....". I called my colleague Viktor [Savinykh], but he didn’t arrive in time to see anything."

And then there is this other story that he relayed to Pravda Magazine on aug 17 2004..."It was probably a UFO, but it was definitely not mysticism - two people watched it at the same time," said he.

http://www.ufoeviden...icle.asp?ID=397

[I suppose that 'Pravda' could have deliberately misquoted the General for sensationalistic reasons?]...but 'ufoevidence.org' is usually a decent reference site, and it is an interesting case anyway !...btw Jim, do you have anything in mind as to the identity of the 'UFO', or indeed to the likely validity factor of Gen. Kovalenok...?


Cheers.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

#3    JimOberg

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:27 PM

View Post1963, on 26 November 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

btw Jim, do you have anything in mind as to the identity of the 'UFO', or indeed to the likely validity factor of Gen. Kovalenok...?

The shape-shifting reminds me of the 1984 'Minsk airliner case' ['precisely at 4:10 AM'], which turned out to be a sub-launched ICBM.

But I sure would be more comfortable once I had access to either military intelligence files,

OR

other reports from ground witnesses in South Africa that corroborated the sighing time/place/motion.


#4    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:22 PM

I don't know what to say about that video since it's a Russian officer dubbed into Japanese.  I guess the point is that something weird was flying around up there, but that's been going on a long time.


#5    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:29 PM

Barbell-shaped UFOs have been reported from time to time over the years, like this one is 2005.

Posted Image

I have no clue who would want to build something like that or why.

http://www.ufocasebo...rtercounty.html


#6    booNyzarC

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:57 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 26 November 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

Barbell-shaped UFOs have been reported from time to time over the years, like this one is 2005.

Posted Image

I have no clue who would want to build something like that or why.

http://www.ufocasebo...rtercounty.html

To illustrate that the UFO phenomenon is a weighty subject...

:P


#7    1963

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 26 November 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

Barbell-shaped UFOs have been reported from time to time over the years, like this one is 2005.

Posted Image

I have no clue who would want to build something like that or why.

http://www.ufocasebo...rtercounty.html

Hi MacGuffin!...That report that you supplied seems to be kosher,and I believe that there is other good examples to be found,.. but I find that the computer finds quite a bit of detritus when you pump barbell UFO's into the search engine. Such as these videos on youtube...

http://www.youtube.c...if-j0aYQ...part 1 and 2...

[both up loaded by Jaime Maussan].. to me they are obviously some kind of inflatable rc device.

This one is 'slightly' better...but I believe that an earthly identification in daylight wouldn't be a great surprise...




Anyway buddy, I don't believe that Jim has the same type of "UFO" in mind  as defined by the likes of  you and I. From his reference to the '1984 Minsk Airliner Case' ,for which he speculated a prosaic explanation a few years ago, [one that I do find 'probably correct',...though still unproven]...

http://www.csicop.or...d_exaggeration/

and so I believe that Jim is implying that General Kovalenok had totally misread the relative distance  of the anomalous sighting, ...and that it was in fact a secret missile test above South Africa that he had witnessed and not recognised!?
...again, it is an interesting possibility that has yet to be proven...if I am reading Jimbo's intention  correctly? :unsure2:

Cheers buddy.

btw Jim...[if you are listening?]...here is the Pravda article from 2004 in which Kovalenok says that his partner Victor Savinykh also witnessed the UFO, which contradicts his other recountings that the UFO had disappeared before his partner had seen it!...


http://web.archive.o..._astronaut.html

...strange!..to say the least.

Edited by 1963, 27 November 2012 - 01:12 AM.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

#8    DONTEATUS

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

YEah ! the Dumb bell theory, gets em every time ! THe Dumber the UFO story the Heaver the Make believe ! :alien: :no:

This is a Work in Progress!

#9    JimOberg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

View PostDONTEATUS, on 27 November 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

YEah ! the Dumb bell theory, gets em every time ! THe Dumber the UFO story the Heaver the Make believe ! :alien: :no:

People interpret 'undescribable' shapes as analogs to shapes they are familiar with, and often edit perceived features to fit -- a very human perceptual process. Here's another way that missile/space events can contribute to understanding the range and variability of such perceptual reports -- once a causal connection can be established in this subset of potential 'UFO stimuli'.

It's harder for a 'nonprosaicist' argument to say that they CAN'T BELIEVE a percipient would ever get the apparition so wrong, when cases can be found that were missile/space events, and the percipients got fundamental descriptive features wrong then, too.


#10    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:35 AM

View Post1963, on 27 November 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Anyway buddy, I don't believe that Jim has the same type of "UFO" in mind  as defined by the likes of  you and I. From his reference to the '1984 Minsk Airliner Case' ,for which he speculated a prosaic explanation a few years ago, [one that I do find 'probably correct',...though still unproven]...


...strange!..to say the least.


That's Russia for you.  I spent about five years in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union and I can't say that I even knew what was really going on half of the time.  

I got the impression that UFO reports from the general public were definitely not encouraged in the old days, and it was unhealthy to be curious about most things like that.  They did not permit most people to travel, read foreign publications or even have access to computers and copying machines, and lots of books, journals and records were kept locked up.  You could even be arrested for telling the wrong kind of joke in a bar, just a chance remark after a few beers would be enough to do it.

One time, I did mention that I had seen a UFO in South Korea, though, and a couple days later some "journalist" came to interview me about it and wanted all the details.

On another occasion, I was with a group of air traffic controllers and many of them had UFO sightings, plenty of radar-visual reports of things that were incredible--incredible reports for credible observers.  These guys didn't think they were anything from this world and they were in a position to now, but you'd never get anything of them to put that on the record or make it public.


#11    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:37 AM

The man says:

"When on Earth, Kovalenok learned specialists had registered considerable radiation emission the day the astronaut saw the object. “I do not believe it when astronauts say they have never seen anything extraordinary in space,” concluded Kovalenok"

I don't believe it either.  


#12    JimOberg

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:06 AM

View PostTheMacGuffin, on 27 November 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

The man says: "When on Earth, Kovalenok learned specialists had registered considerable radiation emission the day the astronaut saw the object. “I do not believe it when astronauts say they have never seen anything extraordinary in space,” concluded Kovalenok"

I don't believe it either.  

And neither do I -- depending on your definition of 'extraordinary'.

It's easy for ground-pounders to imagine things are 'unusual' if they have no idea what's 'usual'

And even space travelers get astonished by stuff they see:

http://seedmagazine...._high_frontier/

So what does that have to do with 'UFOs'??


#13    TheMacGuffin

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 27 November 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

And neither do I -- depending on your definition of 'extraordinary'.


So what does that have to do with 'UFOs'??

You tell me.  I have said enough.


#14    psyche101

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 03:34 AM

I would have thought that


Quote

Armstrong said it was "really two rings" Two connected rings"


Might indicate a common piece of equipment or very similar piece of equipment except for the explosions. Two connected rings might look like a barbell?

It sounds like a new phenomena to be discovered? We know that comets can explode under certain conditions, or have explosions change their course, that seem the closest parallel in nature I can think of at this point in time?

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