6153 replies to this topic

[ranrod]

synchronomy, on 16 September 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

I can't imagine natural processes advancing from a few complex molecules, to a cell membrane enclosing even the most primitive DNA replication and cell division.  I'm of reasonable intelligence and I'm pretty well read...but I can't get my head around the spontaneous creation of life from natural events...although I do agree on evolution once life gets going.
On the divinity idea, I can't comprehend a supreme entity being bored silly one day and creating the Universe...even if it did take a week.  Sorry no offence to believers...I'm not criticizing you...I am speaking about my own personal beliefs.  Obviously the creation idea doesn't work for me.

So my current belief is panspermia with ET interference occasionally in our history to help out our evolution...so yes Prometheous is worth considering especially since the first Alien movie was based exactly on panspermia.

Isn't our species kind of proving panspermia if we have evolved and are now sending people and robots into space?

Also, Apollo 12 bringing back a piece of Surveyor which landed on the Moon a couple of years before them, had earth originating bacteria that survived space.

For me it seems plausible...but I still puzzle over how life began initially even if it was not here.  Perhaps somewhere in the universe there are natural forces we know nothing of...or perhaps other dimensions colliding with ours.

This is a few pages back, but thanks for the DNA visualization video.  I hadn't seen that one.
For me it is also mind-boggling to think there's no design or architect to such a purposeful, complex, and stable system.  Throughout the primordial Earth there were trillions upon trillions of simultaneous attempts for about a billion years to create a working primitive single cell.  Anything that didn't lead to life, remained in the ooze.  Anything that achieved stability, became the building block for the next step.  Each step speeds up how long the next step takes.  As an analogy, It took humans a hundred thousand years to make a single working autonomous machine, but in the following hundred years we created millions of other machines to do millions of other jobs.  Each hurtle crossed creates an explosion of progress towards the next hurdle.
That said, looking at the DNA visualization shows how advanced we've become in science, but it's anything but intuitive to think that that happened randomly.  Intuitively it makes me think about design (ironically the most compelling reason to consider the metaphysical I've seen).

Also, saying, 'aliens' must have helped us just replaces one question with another:
From:
How did this complex life came to be?  "I don't know"
To:
How did this complex life came to be? "Aliens".  How did the Aliens came to be?  "I don't know"
...Doesn't really get us any closer to an answer.  Same with:
How did this complex life came to be? "Came from Mars".  How did it start in Mars?  "Aliens put it there"  How did the Aliens came to be?  "I don't know"

[synchronomy]

ranrod, on 19 October 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

This is a few pages back, but thanks for the DNA visualization video.  I hadn't seen that one.
For me it is also mind-boggling to think there's no design or architect to such a purposeful, complex, and stable system.  Throughout the primordial Earth there were trillions upon trillions of simultaneous attempts for about a billion years to create a working primitive single cell.  Anything that didn't lead to life, remained in the ooze.  Anything that achieved stability, became the building block for the next step.  Each step speeds up how long the next step takes.  As an analogy, It took humans a hundred thousand years to make a single working autonomous machine, but in the following hundred years we created millions of other machines to do millions of other jobs.  Each hurtle crossed creates an explosion of progress towards the next hurdle.
That said, looking at the DNA visualization shows how advanced we've become in science, but it's anything but intuitive to think that that happened randomly.  Intuitively it makes me think about design (ironically the most compelling reason to consider the metaphysical I've seen).

Also, saying, 'aliens' must have helped us just replaces one question with another:
From:
How did this complex life came to be?  "I don't know"
To:
How did this complex life came to be? "Aliens".  How did the Aliens came to be?  "I don't know"
...Doesn't really get us any closer to an answer.  Same with:
How did this complex life came to be? "Came from Mars".  How did it start in Mars?  "Aliens put it there"  How did the Aliens came to be?  "I don't know"

Somewhere, somehow "life" came to be.  I saw a documentary some years ago.  It may have been the regular TV series, The Nature of Things, with David Suzuki, a Canadian CBC production, although I am not certain.
It proposed (I've seen this theory elsewhere) that life is not a rare occurance in the Universe, but an eventuality, given the right conditions.  "Life" is matter, organized into such a complex arrangement, that it becomes "conscious" of it's own existance...which of course gets into the deep meaning of what is consciousness.
Natural forces even at the quantum level, compel the simplest of atoms, to form and combine into more and more complex molecules.  This of course is countered by forces that compel them to break down.  Even at the quantum level, the nature of duality takes hold.  Somehow, matter is driven to form into higher and higher levels of complexity to the point of amino acids, proteins etc being launched into further levels of organization with the introduction of enzymes.
It seems very complex and it is.  But if life is indeed and eventuality, it would seem likely that we are in a Universe teeming with life.
Although science seems to have a good understanding of natural forces, we have probably only scratched the surface of the knowledge we need to really comprehend the true nature of our existance.
It's the kind of thing that makes your brain short circuit if you think about it too much.

[ranrod]

synchronomy, on 19 October 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Somewhere, somehow "life" came to be.  I saw a documentary some years ago.  It may have been the regular TV series, The Nature of Things, with David Suzuki, a Canadian CBC production, although I am not certain.
It proposed (I've seen this theory elsewhere) that life is not a rare occurance in the Universe, but an eventuality, given the right conditions.  "Life" is matter, organized into such a complex arrangement, that it becomes "conscious" of it's own existance...which of course gets into the deep meaning of what is consciousness.
Natural forces even at the quantum level, compel the simplest of atoms, to form and combine into more and more complex molecules.  This of course is countered by forces that compel them to break down.  Even at the quantum level, the nature of duality takes hold.  Somehow, matter is driven to form into higher and higher levels of complexity to the point of amino acids, proteins etc being launched into further levels of organization with the introduction of enzymes.
It seems very complex and it is.  But if life is indeed and eventuality, it would seem likely that we are in a Universe teeming with life.
Although science seems to have a good understanding of natural forces, we have probably only scratched the surface of the knowledge we need to really comprehend the true nature of our existance.
It's the kind of thing that makes your brain short circuit if you think about it too much.

I agree.  The most abundant elements in the universe are also the building blocks of life, and their usefulness in creating life is proportional to their amounts in the universe.  Uranium is not a key component in creating life.  Intuitively, it doesn't seem like coincidence.
We are yet to figure out a way life from another solar system could get here in a timely fashion.  Going at the fastest we've made an object go (70k km/s), it would take 17k years to get to the next closest solar system.  If we manage to get something to go at .1c, it would still take 40 years, and that speed is still science fiction to us.  We're pretty far from having a good understanding of how the universe really works though.  If there is intelligent life in Alpha Centauri, and they found a way to travel faster, it's only logical they would go looking in their closest neighbor first (us).

[Hazzard]

http://www.aftonblad...icle15640946.ab


Translation is optional.

[booNyzarC]

Hazzard, on 20 October 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

http://www.aftonblad...icle15640946.ab


Translation is optional.

lol...  you have followed the thread here right?

[mcrom901]

what about trace evidence...

[booNyzarC]

You're on a roll tonight mcrom

[synchronomy]

booNyzarC, on 21 October 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

You're on a roll tonight mcrom

Even as a believer, I have a sense of humor about it all.
You're mocking me....aren't you.

[booNyzarC]

synchronomy, on 21 October 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Even as a believer, I have a sense of humor about it all.
You're mocking me....aren't you.

ROFL... please tell me that doesn't really repeat for 10 whole minutes...  LOL

[synchronomy]

booNyzarC, on 21 October 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

ROFL... please tell me that doesn't really repeat for 10 whole minutes...  LOL

I think it does.
It's just a loop of the funniest 10 seconds of the movie "Toy Story".
I have three kids...so I've seen a lot of their favorite movies over the years

[booNyzarC]

synchronomy, on 21 October 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

I think it does.
It's just a loop of the funniest 10 seconds of the movie "Toy Story".
I have three kids...so I've seen a lot of their favorite movies over the years

It does for 9 minutes at least.  I just couldn't take any more after that...  LOL, but it's still paused so I may finish it after I'm done watching what I'm watching.

Three kids eh?  That's a handful.  Congrats to you for that.  And congrats to them for you.

Cheers synch

[DBunker]

booNyzarC, on 20 October 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

lol...  you have followed the thread here right?

I have.... it is not what it used to be, that much is sure.

[booNyzarC]

DBunker, on 21 October 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I have.... it is not what it used to be, that much is sure.

Oh no, I didn't mean the BE thread...  oops, I probably should have been more clear.  My bad.

I was talking about the thread with the picture of the punch cloud over here.  The same pic in Hazzard's linked article.  Apologies for the misunderstanding, apparently I sometimes think people should be able to read my mind.  

[Slave2Fate]

DBunker, on 21 October 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

I have.... it is not what it used to be, that much is sure.

Ain't that the truth? Sometimes I find myself missing Skyeagle...sometimes.

[booNyzarC]

Slave2Fate, on 21 October 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

Ain't that the truth? Sometimes I find myself missing Skyeagle...sometimes.

Speaking of "truth" and "skyeagle," you could always pay a visit to the 9/11 threads where he's doing a hell of a lot of good.