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HIV 'may have an ancient origin'

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:06 PM

The origins of HIV can be traced back millions rather than tens of thousands of years, research suggests.

HIV, which causes Aids, emerged in humans in the 20th Century, but scientists have long known that similar viruses in monkeys and apes have existed for much longer.

A genetic study shows HIV-like viruses arose in African monkeys and apes 5 million to 12 million years ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-21189141

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#2    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

Does not surprise me, what does surprise me is this:

"The disease emerged during the 20th century after a HIV-like virus jumped from chimps to humans."

How can it jump?? It was said that it could only be contacted through bodily fluids. Or is that only for humans? so it can jump from the chimp but not from human to human?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

I would think any virus by definition has to have ancient origins -- all living things have the same ancient origin.  Hence what they are doing is improving our knowledge by determining its ancestry better and better.

In response to an earlier statement, a disease organism is often specialized to prey on a specific species, and when it evolves in such a way as to be able to prey on another species, it is said to "jump" to that species.


#4    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:12 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I would think any virus by definition has to have ancient origins -- all living things have the same ancient origin.  Hence what they are doing is improving our knowledge by determining its ancestry better and better.

In response to an earlier statement, a disease organism is often specialized to prey on a specific species, and when it evolves in such a way as to be able to prey on another species, it is said to "jump" to that species.

There is no evidence of it "jumping", and there is nothing saying it actually preyed on humans, more like humans preyed on the monkeys;:

There are several ways by which humans may have become infected by a simian retrovirus. One hypothesis believes its emergence came from human use of monkeys. HIV-2 is very closely related to a strain of SIV found in sooty mangabees and the location of sooty mangabees in West Africa coincides with the incidence of HIV-2. There is evidence that sooty mangabees are occasionally killed and eaten in this region. A hypothesis suggested by F. Noireau in 1987 suggested cross-species transfer of SIV to humans might have occurred when monkey blood was applied to human genitals after pubertal circumcision. Such practices could have eventually led to the emergence of a new strain of SIV capable of infecting humans and causing AIDS. Based on the DNA sequences of SIV and HIV-1 and HIV-2, it appears that SIV may have given rise to HIV-2. The origin of HIV-1 is unknown but it is presumed to have arisen from another monkey virus. It is thought that HIV may have begun to spread in Africa after the Second World War when medical personnel began to administer antibiotics by syringe. Syringes were often limited in supply and were generally reused. HIV could then easily be transmitted from an infected individual to an uninfected individual. The virus then might be carried from a rural population into an urban population where it would continue to spread by sexual contact, transfusions etc. It is possible that individuals would have died of some opportunistic infection like Pneumocystis Carinii pneumoma, and no one would have known it was AIDS.

http://www.gibbsmaga...S Came From.htm

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

Any microbe that causes us sickness and death can be said to prey on us.  I don't get your point at all.


#6    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 January 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Any microbe that causes us sickness and death can be said to prey on us.  I don't get your point at all.

A genetic study shows HIV-like viruses arose in African monkeys and apes 5 million to 12 million years ago

If it was not for mans interference, it may never have gotten to us, please see link too as this explains how the virus came into contact with man, or rather it explains that the virus did not find its way to us on its own.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#7    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

I believe the prevailing theory is the virus jumped from tribesmen eating infected monkey meat.


#8    freetoroam

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I believe the prevailing theory is the virus jumped from tribesmen eating infected monkey meat.
Yes, jumped inside their stomachs.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#9    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

why does the word "brains" keep popping up in my head. Maybe I need to start a zombie apocalypse thread.


#10    freetoroam

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

why does the word "brains" keep popping up in my head. Maybe I need to start a zombie apocalypse thread.
Typical, now you want to  start a thread about yourself. Posted ImagePosted Image

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#11    Emma_Acid

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:44 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 25 January 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Does not surprise me, what does surprise me is this:

"The disease emerged during the 20th century after a HIV-like virus jumped from chimps to humans."

How can it jump?? It was said that it could only be contacted through bodily fluids. Or is that only for humans? so it can jump from the chimp but not from human to human?

They mean in the general sense. They don't mean the virus literally jumped.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:49 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 25 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

A genetic study shows HIV-like viruses arose in African monkeys and apes 5 million to 12 million years ago

If it was not for mans interference, it may never have gotten to us, please see link too as this explains how the virus came into contact with man, or rather it explains that the virus did not find its way to us on its own.
That seems reasonable.  The thing I might ask is what did it arise from?

It seems reasonable that a virus like aids, already infecting our closest relatives in the living world, would naturally sooner or later find a way to infect us.  Whether it came from humans eating bush meat or getting bitten while trying to catch it or some other route is stuff we should try to find out, but I don't see where there is any blame involved.


#13    freetoroam

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 26 January 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

They mean in the general sense. They don't mean the virus literally jumped.
NO, what they mean is they do not want to admit that the humans started it themselves by interfering with the monkeys in the first place.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#14    Rlyeh

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 26 January 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

NO, what they mean is they do not want to admit that the humans started it themselves by interfering with the monkeys in the first place.
You're one of these people who believe HIV came from having sex with monkeys? LMAO


#15    freetoroam

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 26 January 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

You're one of these people who believe HIV came from having sex with monkeys? LMAO
Read the link I posted and show me where the word sex is mentioned as the cause?

Are you one of those people who believe a monkey bit a man in a Congo Village?... and somehow, this man who has never left his village is the cause for the virus which spread around the world, not only in 1 strain, but a few.

Saying that, a few years ago a woman from the Congo was tested in France and was found to have a new strain of the virus.

Edited by freetoroam, 26 January 2013 - 04:24 PM.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.





Also tagged with hiv, aids, monkeys, apes

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