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Edgar Mitchell says a lot.......


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#226    S2F

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:33 PM

 quillius, on 11 April 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

hello S2F, when you say notion are you referring to the notion that there was a cover up or that UFOs equate ot ET?

Hey quill, sorry I should have been more clear. I meant the UFO=ET bit. While I'll admit that is a possibility I don't think we are ever going to find that definitive link in any of the old cases. We need something new, something big. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#227    quillius

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:38 PM

 Slave2Fate, on 11 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Hey quill, sorry I should have been more clear. I meant the UFO=ET bit. While I'll admit that is a possibility I don't think we are ever going to find that definitive link in any of the old cases. We need something new, something big. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:

ahh ok cheers, and I do agree with all you have said. Although I guess I do love some of the *old cases* but I will only ever have enough to strengthen my belief but never enough to prove anything.

And yes I also everyday think about how a modern day big event could easily give us what we need and I would also think a cover up would be less possible than say 30-40 years ago.......I wouldnt even need it to be in a big city :)



edit to add: * Pascagoula* for example :P had to drop this into the Mitchell thread somewhere...(you should come and give your thoughts on the case)

Edited by quillius, 11 April 2013 - 03:41 PM.


#228    S2F

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

 quillius, on 11 April 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

ahh ok cheers, and I do agree with all you have said. Although I guess I do love some of the *old cases* but I will only ever have enough to strengthen my belief but never enough to prove anything.

And yes I also everyday think about how a modern day big event could easily give us what we need and I would also think a cover up would be less possible than say 30-40 years ago.......I wouldnt even need it to be in a big city :)



edit to add: * Pascagoula* for example :P had to drop this into the Mitchell thread somewhere...(you should come and give your thoughts on the case)

Indeed, I think at the time of Roswell (sorry for bringing that little turd up :P ) there was a fair amount of trust in the government to handle the situation properly so even if there were a crash, people would leave the site untouched for the most part. I think it is apparently obvious that that trust has been abused since then and I wouldn't doubt one bit that there would be people scavenging over the (new) crash site like the last truck load of Twinkies spilled on a highway. You'd probably see bits and pieces for sale on Ebay or Amazon within hours regardless of what the government mandated. The government may put a major clamp on something like that, maybe even going to the trouble to shut entire portions of the internet down but surely not before something got out (and hopefully into the right hands).

Ah well, one can hope for a new 'event' at least. :tu:


*Edit: I'll have to give a good read of the Pascagoula thread first, it's not a case I'm intimately knowledgeable of.

Edited by Slave2Fate, 11 April 2013 - 03:57 PM.

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#229    quillius

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

 Slave2Fate, on 11 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

Indeed, I think at the time of Roswell (sorry for bringing that little turd up :P ) there was a fair amount of trust in the government to handle the situation properly so even if there were a crash, people would leave the site untouched for the most part. I think it is apparently obvious that that trust has been abused since then and I wouldn't doubt one bit that there would be people scavenging over the (new) crash site like the last truck load of Twinkies spilled on a highway. You'd probably see bits and pieces for sale on Ebay or Amazon within hours regardless of what the government mandated. The government may put a major clamp on something like that, maybe even going to the trouble to shut entire portions of the internet down but surely not before something got out (and hopefully into the right hands).

Ah well, one can hope for a new 'event' at least. :tu:


*Edit: I'll have to give a good read of the Pascagoula thread first, it's not a case I'm intimately knowledgeable of.

yes exactly, and the super fast transfer of information and images around the world would again make it very hard to contain....


*please do, its a great case IMO, especially when you listen to the recording of the men when they were being secretly taped...sets the scene nicely :tu:


#230    mcrom901

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:05 PM

 quillius, on 11 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

agreed, it is not 'proof' and it is just what the evidence of a cover up suggests.

oh yes, but at the same time it could also be many other things, unknown for instance... we have seen many declassified documents which were obtained through the foia, some of them regarding some of the famous eth candidates and none of them had anything indicative of such a stance i.e. an et visitation cover-up... in any case, by that i don't mean that it's absolutely impossible for the government to hide such evidence, but without any definitive info it's just mere speculation... maybe at some point they thought that they were dealing with interplanetary crafts, but that was way long back and we have evolved since then and though there are still classified stuff re ufos, i think the conspiracy angle is mostly based on these old assumptions... but isn't that an appeal to authority? an authority which we don't want to trust but are willing to only accept their outdated conjectures?

 quillius, on 11 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I also think that outright denial that there was never a cover up let alone a continued investigation (even after the apperent closure of Bluebook) is also just as problematic dont you think?

yes, of course, but that's an issue only as far as the us government is concerned imo

 quillius, on 11 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

In fact I would say these two extremes fuel eachother, and without eachother may not find it as necessary to maintain their 'extreme' position,

but what about the other countries which have declassified their ufo files, has that helped the cause in any way? or can we just fall back on an ad hoc and claim that the real nuggets never surfaced in the first place?


#231    S2F

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

 mcrom901, on 11 April 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

oh yes, but at the same time it could also be many other things, unknown for instance... we have seen many declassified documents which were obtained through the foia, some of them regarding some of the famous eth candidates and none of them had anything indicative of such a stance i.e. an et visitation cover-up... in any case, by that i don't mean that it's absolutely impossible for the government to hide such evidence, but without any definitive info it's just mere speculation... maybe at some point they thought that they were dealing with interplanetary crafts, but that was way long back and we have evolved since then and though there are still classified stuff re ufos, i think the conspiracy angle is mostly based on these old assumptions... but isn't that an appeal to authority? an authority which we don't want to trust but are willing to only accept their outdated conjectures?



yes, of course, but that's an issue only as far as the us government is concerned imo



but what about the other countries which have declassified their ufo files, has that helped the cause in any way? or can we just fall back on an ad hoc and claim that the real nuggets never surfaced in the first place?

I think you've just summed up my opinions on the matter quite succinctly. It's difficult to progress beyond the points you bring up without adding things that aren't there and 'reading between the lines' and what not. Those practices are good enough to arouse suspicion but fall woefully short of producing a conclusion.

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#232    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:00 PM

 Slave2Fate, on 11 April 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

. Another crashed saucer in the middle of a large city would do quite nicely I think. ^_^ :tu:
let's hope not.

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#233    S2F

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

 Colonel Rhuairidh, on 11 April 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

let's hope not.

Yeah, I hadn't considered the destruction end of the deal. Maybe they could do us a solid and crash into a Walmart or something... kidding, in case anyone couldn't tell :lol:

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave


#234    psyche101

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:21 AM

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I will answer both you and pysche101 in the same response in this reply.  First off, no I am not open minded to the point where my BRAIN[assuming that's what you meant in place of braijn?] will fall out.  Just the opposite.  I read the evidence in the form of books, watch documentaries, and draw my own conclusions based on that.  If I were too open minded as you were implying, I would simply be going on a willingness to believe or blind faith.  Neither of which I have, btw.

You have indeed displayed blind belief, you refuse to listen to what Edgar Mitchell has to say for a start.

What do you call a "documentary"? I have seen others use the term to describe entertainment shows, which are clearly not documentaries.

n.pl.doc·u·men·ta·ries

A work, such as a film or television program, presenting political, social, or historical subject matter in a factual and informative manner and often consisting of actual news films or interviews accompanied by narration.



Is that indeed what we are talking about? Factual? Or speculation?

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

And to p101,

:st

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I can say this again; what we have is a clash of mindsets on this Edgar Mitchell issue.  

Indeed, you seem to insist on making up a story out of his words that does not exist. I have asked you to confirm your claims, and have confirmed mine with links, not to mention an entire thread dedicated to Edgar Mitchell's sources, which are less than convincing.

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

You are obviously of the mindset that there is nothing to it.  I am of the mindset that something is definitely going on with this and other occurances in reguards to a UFO cover-up.  

You are doing exactly what Jim said you are doing. And you think pointing out a spelling mistake is clever? He just called you. That is why you refuse to answer posts but put up these lazy little paragraphs so you do not have to deal with the facts that I have given you which prove your claim is speculation and embellishment only. There is absoltuly nothing to it, and yet again I double dog dare you to prove otherwise. Please point out what additional sources exist that have not been covered in the thread I pointed you at.

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

I have no need to give link after link to direct proof because all of the evidence that would either convince or dissuade each individual is historical knowledge.  There are books, documentaries, television shows, and search engines for those who wish to look up what I say on the forums here and view the circumstantial evidence for themselves.  

Historical hearsay you mean, mainly over the last 50-60 years. Be honest.

If it has not convinced the rest of the globe in all of these decades, not one shred of actual proof exists to support the speculations that people place upon lights in the sky. If you are so open minded  why can you not consider that the speculation afre plain wrong. Just like how we used to say lighting was thrown by Zeus, and thunder came from Thors mighty hammer. Todays ET has merely replaced these gods of old. But you cannot even consider that, yet without proof, your "theory", which I must point out is nothing like the definition for "scientific theory" is merely no more than musings. Believing it's status is elevated is a personal opinion.

All in all, you have nothing. If not for some compelling tales and some open minded scientists, the phenomena would have no credibility at all. Like I mentioned, there are two types of believers. One is completely respectable. The other................... not so much.

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Nice touch with the whole attack mode in which you quite convincingly made me look like a crackpot or blind believer.  Its a good spin and one which skeptics have used for decades to make the believers in a cover-up look less than credible or even insane.  

Ohh you poor thing.

Posted Image




I did nothing more than point out the holes in your tall tales. Don't be a crybaby, you provided the information, you should not have stacked it so precariously as it was very easy to knock down. Did you follow the link to the ATS thread about Roswell? Why did you refuse to comment on that? It answers every question does it not? As I said, I would like to see if you can falsify it, I could not, as a result, I changed my stance from MOGUL to supporting this hypothesis, as it seems very strong to me. Have you ever changed a major support stance for an items with regards to the phenomena? Can you accept new evidence as it comes to hand?

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

In my view, that is a diversionary tactic to distract from the real issue; government suppression of intimate knowledge of ET life and the UFO phenomena.  

In my view, this very claim you have made is a diversionary tactic so that you do not have to answer the facts placed before you, or acknowledge that they falsify your claims.

Very common with believers Avoid the facts, have a big whinge, try to make everyone feel sorry for me. Doesn't work mate.  

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Like I say, you either believe guys like Edgar Mitchell or you don't.  But, to ignore people like Mitchell who knew a helluva lot more than the general public is simply arrogant and ignorant at the least.  


Do you believe Edgar Mitchell?


(Edgar Mitchell) Although I firmly believe it is time for openness and disclosure by government, I object to being misused in this fashion and acquire guilt by association with certain claims that simply are not true.


EM: I don’t know what really got things stirred up, perhaps it was the Larry King show. I don’t know.

LB: Could be. But basically people are freaking out that you were aware of several UFO visits.
EM: That’s not quite right. You use that in the plural. I was talking about the Roswell incident, the Roswell visitation primarily, but there have been many others that have been reported that I have no personal awareness of but that was the one that I was really talking about.

(Edgar Mitchell) I, nor any crew I was on (I was on three Apollo crews), received any briefing before or after flights on UFO events, saw anything in space suggesting UFOs or structures on the moon, etc. We did it just like we said in official reports. My only claim to knowledge of these events is from the individuals, mostly of yesteryear, who were in government, intelligence, or military; were there, saw what they saw, and now believe it should be made public. But I claim no first hand knowledge, nor have any. Pass it on to the rest of the net, if you will.
--Edgar Mitchell

LB: The interviews are quoted as saying that you say sources at NASA who had contact with aliens…
EM: That is totally false.

EM: Well, we’ve all seen the pictures of the so-called aliens – “little grays.” I have no first-hand evidence that that’s true, but I do accept the fact that those seem to be the prevalent story.

LB: What do you think of NASA’s statement that “Dr.Mitchell is a great American but we don’t share his opinions”?
EM: I can understand if they think I was attributing anything to the NASA organization, or deriving anything from the NASA organization, they can certainly say that. And it’s true because none of my experience or what I said relates to NASA at all.


Seriously CB, what does it take? Do you need Dr Mitchell to come up to you, and shout all the above statements to your face before you will hear them?
You are ignoring Edgar Mitchell, just look at these statements. Like the media, you are just making stuff up to suit your personal conclusion. Your claims are not supported by the man you say made them. Again, I refer you to the Dr Mitchell thread, and ask you to look at his "sources", please tell me THEN, why any of the media claims are more than pure rubbish.

You cannot accomplish that, can you.

 conspiracy buff, on 11 April 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Some people are content to look the other way and pretend nothing is going on.  Which is fine, just don't try and undermine those of us who chose to see what is clearly in front of us......

That is indeed what you are doing, looking the other way, speculating, and then trying to tell people your musings are fact. Wake up to yourself man. Don't try and tell me fact exists, that simply does not, if you want to make that claim, prove it. do not preach something and expect followers, the world is a smarter place each an every day, expect more of this from all angles as the human species improves.
The very least you could do is show something to offer why even you believe the tripe you are dishing out.

Edited by psyche101, 12 April 2013 - 12:25 AM.

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#235    conspiracy buff

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:00 PM

I could do like you, go quote by quote and try to reason.  Clearly, this whole thing has sunken into childlike bashing over simple differences of opinions and opposing mindsets.  I will not get into that, because it is a waste of time and not worth the effort you are clearly exerting to try and disprove my viewpoint[which shows your utter lack of respect for opposing views].  There have been numerous books written on this topic and I did refer to those as well, to which you glazed over in mistaking and twisting my meaning from earlier posts.  Did I give links?  Why bother?  Most of the stuff I'm referring to is public knowledge and can be researched and looked up via search engines.  You can also look up documentaries on the topic as it relates to my prior point about the UFO cover-up.  It all ends up being a matter of opinion which cannot be refuted since everyone has their own views and belief systems based on what everyone perceives as evidence[whether it is actual proof or simply circumstantial, to which I alluded to earlier and even said plenty of times].  I'm not gonna spend time arguing like a 5 year old because I simply do not agree with your particular point-of-view.

And FYI, when you said I was being "clever" in correcting Oberg's grammar error, I was being SARCASTIC.  How sad indeed.  Let me explain one final thing in reguards to your numerous requests for "proof"; I do not post here to change anyone's mind on these unexplained mysteries.  I am simply stating that from what I have seen and read about, that it seems very likely IN MY OWN VIEW that there is a conspiracy.  The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.  I am a realist and I post here for fun and not to be contrary or spend all day giving links to please someone else by trying to change opinions.  It's that simple.  If you choose to quote this and complain about or belittle that, then it shows a certain level of immaturity and the inability to accept differing viewpoints.

Edited by conspiracy buff, 12 April 2013 - 06:30 PM.

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#236    Scudbuster

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:29 PM

 conspiracy buff, on 12 April 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.  

Amen brother - my feelings exactly.


#237    badeskov

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:31 PM

 conspiracy buff, on 12 April 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

<snip>
The mere fact that Edgar Mitchell, Philip Corso, Jesse Marcell, Gordon Cooper, and many others are of that same viewpoint is very telling.

<snip>

How so? All they have is a belief, none of them have seen anything that could be counted as a smoking gun - as pointed out earlier by other posters.

Cheers,
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#238    conspiracy buff

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:42 AM

 badeskov, on 13 April 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

How so? All they have is a belief, none of them have seen anything that could be counted as a smoking gun - as pointed out earlier by other posters.

Cheers,
Badeskov

Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe.  Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.  Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up.  Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially.  You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario.  The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story.  I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic.  Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing.  Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other.  It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know.  Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#239    seeder

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:17 AM

 conspiracy buff, on 14 April 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Let me clarify my meaning here; These guys were all more qualified to speak on this topic than your average joe.  Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.  Both claimed to either have second-hand knowledge or direct knowledge in reguards to alien life and whether the US Government and NASA were covering it up.  Jesse Marcel and Philip Corso were both inside the military and were privy to things most people will never know about officially.  You also have indirect and independent verification of a cover-up scenario.  The "majestic 12" documents claim to be a direct link to people involved with a UFO cover story.  I realize that skeptics will have a field day with that last statement because the documents are highly controversial and in dispute as not authentic.  Even so, it is entirely plausible that there is a group of people who control a cover-up if one believes that it is a distinct possibility.

Regular civilians making extraordinary UFO claims is one thing.  Having all these highly ranked and respected people coming forward to share their knowledge is quite the other.  It is highly disrespectful to these courageous individuals who risked their careers and personal lives by coming forward to let the public know.  Of course, these days respect is a rare thing that most people do not have a concept of and definitely will not show.


well Conspiracy Buff, you certainly deserve your forum name!

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#240    S2F

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:18 AM

 conspiracy buff, on 14 April 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Edgar Mitchell & Gordon Cooper went into space, meaning they had a pretty good feel for whether or not life "out there" is possible.

I've been snorkeling in the Atlantic ocean, does that qualify me as a marine biologist?

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You know... the plural of ``anecdote'' is not ``data''. Similarly, the plural of ``random fact'' is not ``mystical symbolism''. -sepulchrave





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