A Anarchists Manifesto

[Novo]

While I cant speak for all anarchist I can give you ones opinion-

A common misconception is that I hate america, this is far from true, how could I hate a landmass? , I dont hate america I dont love anything thats not alive, yes it is true that I love the people within its confines and what there supposed to represent, But I see them being turned into ruthless components of the corporate machine and it sickens me, so am I so wrong in thinking that a better america can be achieved BY the people within it? The government labels me a violent radical a threat to society, a threat to the society that watches its people starve to death the society that desynsitizes children with violent television, with alcohol and drug use with war and poverty, the society that encourages violence and looks down on social tolerance, who are they to label me? Some people are proud to be "patriots" and live under someone elses rules, some people arent not all are anarchists but we all think what is happening around us is wrong, every year millions die of hiv and aids, while governments world wide invest more in there militarys than there peoples welfare. Im only one person, but when one person finds another person with same views, a movement is born I cant give exact numbers on the Anarchist movement, because Joining is a personal decision.I know who I am and what I believe in, and since I was young I was taught to stand up for what I believe in so thats what Im doing, I may never see a world without war, but its the steps torward a better future that matter, so if Im committing some crime hoping for a better world, then Im one of the biggest criminals in the world.

I am a Anarchist, who are you?

-Jordan V. Couch

[Novo]

This is just some ramblings, still needs a little work but some advice would be great, I could end up tinkering around with it for a while or I might end up trashing it.

[Me_Again]

Sounds good to me, I think I'm one too! Now I finally have a definition for myself,

thanks

[Scorpius]

It's impossible to control people with Anarchism. There will always be people trying to order other people to do things, its just the way things are.

Nature has its order as does everything else. It's not the "government" you should hate but the people who corrupt it. AIDs is most common in Africa, if I'm right. Right now Africa seems to be the most chaotic Country in the world

I'm not saying everyone in Africa is bad and malicious. It's just common misunderstandings that lead to violence, and without proper support and order Africa will continue on in its current state.

People must learn to understand...

I know there are times where I don't understand other people, which makes me angry... but to tell you the truth, if you just sat back and watched the big picture, you'll learn things you've never knew before.

Edited August 23, 2004 by Blue-Scorpion

[Janiel]

While I cant speak for all anarchist I can give you ones opinion-

A common misconception is that I hate america, this is far from true, how could I hate a landmass? , I dont hate america I dont love anything thats not alive, yes it is true that I love the people within its confines and what there supposed to represent, But I see them being turned into ruthless components of the corporate machine and it sickens me, so am I so wrong in thinking that a better america can be achieved BY the people within it? The government labels me a violent radical a threat to society, a threat to the society that watches its people starve to death the society that desynsitizes children with violent television, with alcohol and drug use with war and poverty, the society that encourages violence and looks down on social tolerance, who are they to label me? Some people are proud to be "patriots" and live under someone elses rules, some people arent not all are anarchists but we all think what is happening around us is wrong, every year millions die of hiv and aids, while governments world wide invest more in there militarys than there peoples welfare. Im only one person, but when one person finds another person with same views, a movement is born I cant give exact numbers on the Anarchist movement, because Joining  is a personal decision.I know who I am and what I believe in, and since I was young I was taught to stand up for what I believe in so thats what Im doing, I may never see a world without war, but its the steps torward a better future that matter, so if Im committing some crime hoping for a better world, then Im one of the biggest criminals in the world.

I am a Anarchist, who are you?

-Jordan V. Couch

a big Amen on that one, looks like im an anarchist too

Edited August 23, 2004 by Janiel

[Novo]

It's impossible to control people with Anarchism. There will always be people trying to order other people to do things, its just the way things are.

Nature has its order as does everything else. It's not the "government" you should hate but the people who corrupt it. AIDs is most common in Africa, if I'm right. Right now Africa seems to be the most chaotic Country in the world

I'm not saying everyone in Africa is bad and malicious. It's just common misunderstandings that lead to violence, and without proper support and order Africa will continue on in its current state.

People must learn to understand...

I know there are times where I don't understand other people, which makes me angry... but to tell you the truth, if you just sat back and watched the big picture, you'll learn things you've never knew before.

and you know what happens to someone if they decide to boss someone else around? if we ever get our revolution, im certain we will have worked to long and hard for it to let some moron ruin it all. If someone takes from the community, without giving they will be "exiled". his doesnt mean death in the wilderness or anything, just that they will be kicked out of the community. they can always go to some other country.

[Me_Again]

Well this is how I feel about it...

I would like to experience living on this beautiful earth, where miracles happen.

How about the order of synchornicity? Soon that order will come and if for only a moment (in your idea of time) that will be fine with me again

Some things will never change/not

[Scorpius]

and you know what happens to someone if they decide to boss someone else around? if we ever get our revolution, im certain we will have worked to long and hard for it to let some moron ruin it all. If someone takes from the community, without giving they will be "exiled". his doesnt mean death in the wilderness or anything, just that they will be kicked out of the community. they can always go to some other country.

Maybe we should have a debate on this, later on. It'd be good for the people. But i'm in the Psi-Debate right now, so maybe after.

Help me put this in perspective, anarchism by definition

Anarchism

------

"Rejection of all forms of coercive control and authority: “He was inclined to anarchism; he hated system and organization and uniformity” (Bertrand Russell).

The theory or doctrine that all forms of government are oppressive and undesirable and should be abolished."

------

If someone takes from the community, without giving they will be "exiled".

So what you're implying is a some form of authority and policy so that people must give when they take something. That contradicts everything you believe in as an Anarchist.

With Anarchism comes chaos. Without rules or regulations people are able to do what they want when they want to--pure freedom. That's the only problem I see with Anarchism.

That's why I ain't in any group, well maybe the group that rules for "Peace".

Edited August 25, 2004 by Blue-Scorpion

[Novo]

If we were to form an anarchy today, there would be no authority except for that of the community. if crimes were commited, then everyone in the community could come (if they wanted to) and propose what to do about it. if it were as perfect as I imagine it then there would be no death setences, or imprisonments. exile is that worst possible punishment I can imagine. like leaving eden for the real world.

[Me_Again]

Living on earth, experiencing synchronicity. Is there a definition for that type of thinker? I do think that our form of "big business" government, needs to be transformed. How do we do this? *ponders* Am I an anarchist or not? Feeling I may have labeled myself to soon

[Scorpius]

But Anarchism is the belief and rejection of all coercive control or authority. In Lamen's terms, "going against higher people with control over them"

You are speaking about a council and assembly in a community which is a form of authority. Anarchism is the rejection of such, which means you are not an Anarchist at heart.

... just proving my point...

you just want people to do the right thing when called for--morals--the ability to know what is right and what is wrong basically.

I don't mean to put you down or anything, I just think you misunderstood the definition of anarchism.

[Fluffybunny]

I like that you folks are considering these different forms society. If it is OK I would like to throw my two cents in:

About the closest thing to anarchy(as you describe it) I can see as being feasible is a more extreme version of Libertarianism(of which I am a believer); with the goals being to maximize personal freedoms while minimizing governments control. Basically the government does enought to maintain a minimal infrastructure and protects the borders leaving the rest up to the citizenry to take care fo themselves and each other...

The idea of no government would work great if we were speaking of just a couple of people(literally), but in the numbers of even a tiny community anarchy would lead to chaos and downfall. Human nature is a tough thing to get around. Even if it was just Student and Alive and MIM out in the canadian outback making a go of it, sooner or later you folks are going to run into a situation where a difference of opinions comes up and you will need help to settle that...

Your definition of Anarchy is wonderful, but idealistic. as my signature says:

Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.

-David T. Wolf

It is very true in this case. I respect what you intention are and agree with the idea that the current government is out of control and needs a serious revision. I have been around long enough to know that a community without some form of leadership will not last.

The "council" of which you speak is just another name for a government; ultimately someone is going to have to make decisions as to what is acceptable in the community and what is not. When one person in the anarchist society does something that is not acceptable in the eyes of the community, either punishment or banishment is going to have to be doled out by someone, be it a police system, council, or mob rule. Regardless, there always has to be "The Man" to come down on someone who is acting outside of a level of acceptability.

No government is just not a possibility, really. Not now, not 1000 years ago, not 1000 years from now...I am not trying to be Captain Bringdown here; but really even in the most idealistic utopian attempts, there had to be leadership in order to guide the community. I wish that weren't the case, but it is. Unless you plan to stand out in the middle of the forest and live off of roots and berries by yourself, a community needs to have standards of acceptability. Those standards are just another name for laws.

There have to be laws(I doubt you would disagree), and there is no way around having laws without some form of enforcement. That enforcement is going to have to have the power to enforce those laws; power over the people as it were.

I agree that the current system of both government and law enforcement are out of control(as is a majority of the rest of society in my opinion), but that doesn't mean that they can be done away with...

In reading through this and the other anarchist threads it seems like you are working so hard to try to tell people that your system is so different that you are missing the fact that any community is going to have a minimal amount of needs that can only be met by some form of government. You can change the name of that government all you wish; council, king, chief, grand pubah... whatever the case may be, but the bottom line is that when people are trying to poke holes in your concepts, they are telling you that even though the name may change of your government, you are still going to have to have something to take its place in a needed role in your community.

Your government may not be as large, overpowered, or as corrupt; but it will need to be there in some format.

I would also like to ad that some of the resistance that you seem to be coming across is that in common language Anarchy=Chaos... I know it isn't up to you guys, but I would recommend from a marketing point of view to change the name a bit to get away from the stereotype that is going to continue to hinder you in these discussions...try something that isn't already loaded with such negative connotations...hmmm...something likeFreedomism...that will work...who wouldn't want that? same concept; new name...

[Novo]

Call me young and idealistic fluffy, but I think the human race does have it in them. Have I explained before the if we had a Anarchic society that it would not have large cities like today? communitys would be spread around like the ancient tribes were, anyway great post.

-S&A

[+joc]

While I cant speak for all anarchist I can give you ones opinion-

A common misconception is that I hate america, this is far from true, how could I hate a landmass? , I dont hate america I dont love anything thats not alive, yes it is true that I love the people within its confines and what there supposed to represent, But I see them being turned into ruthless components of the corporate machine and it sickens me, so am I so wrong in thinking that a better america can be achieved BY the people within it?

America isn't a land mass. It is approximately 300 million people working hard, living free. What made and makes this country great is Capitalism. What you see as 'ruthless components of the corporate machine' are actually hard working folks who are trying their best to raise and support their families. I know you are young but that doesn't mean you have to be stupid. The thing that irks me most about this absurdity is that it isn't ... A Anarchist... it is ... AN Anarchist. Your grammar needs work and so does your theory. Do you take drugs?

Try really hard to grasp Reality and hold onto it. Please.

[Blood Angel]

America isn't a land mass. It is approximately 300 million people working hard, living free. What made and makes this country great is Capitalism. What you see as 'ruthless components of the corporate machine' are actually hard working folks who are trying their best to raise and support their families. I know you are young but that doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

Also what joc doesn't mention here is this:

1. The capatilist corporations exploit its workers, farmers, and overseas workers. Especially its overseas workers, who get payed as little as $6 a week to make your nike trainers. Coffee bean farmers get exploited by Starbucks..

2. Corporations especially the Oil giants have had massive tax cuts from your dear president, This makes up a huge chunk of tax revenue for you country.

3. Corporations especially oil giants exploit tax loopholes by basing parts of there companys in the carribean.

So are they hard working executives that pay less tax than there secetary or hard working individuals that have there workers rights in mind? I think that would be the first.

The thing that irks me most about this absurdity is that it isn't  ...  A Anarchist...  it is ...  AN Anarchist.  Your grammar needs work and so does your theory.  Do you take drugs? 

Try really hard to grasp Reality and hold onto it.  Please.

The thing that irks me the most about this absurdity in your post, is that your blasting a person for their grammar. So what? And what does drugs have to do with anything? You take a really hard grasp of reality and hold onto it.

S&A: This is a great article, like to see more.

[Scorpius]

Student&Alive, I think you're missing the BIG picture here. You must consider every possible detail in your quest for a better world

To be blunt, you ain't protesting for Anarchy at all, but are protesting for libertarianism, as what Fluffy described.

Libertarianism: One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state

Have I explained before the if we had a Anarchic society that it would not have large cities like today? communitys would be spread around like the ancient tribes were, anyway great post.

In our modern world, that would deem almost impossible. Today, we are all on money. Money is a form of trade rather than directly work for someone to make you a TV, we work elsewhere for it.

That's basically the whole concept of money, if I'm right.

Anyway, it just wouldn't work. We'd have to tear down existing apartments especially in New York and relocate them to a wider and more freer area. Which some people would not be too happy about. Staying close to their work and home, is what people want. With individual communities... ...iunno...but it seems you are trying to rationalize an idealistic world, that wouldn't be possible right now.

It would require hundreds of years to start the transformation, and i don't think we stay that long. I'm not gonna say "die" because I don't believe in "death"...but that's a whole other story

Maybe your skimming through our posts or something and are not quite grasping our points.

I'm sure we don't mean to corner you into submission, but rather we're trying to reason with your misunderstandings.

Edited August 27, 2004 by Blue-Scorpion

[+joc]

Also what joc doesn't mention here is this:

1. The capatilist corporations exploit its workers, farmers, and overseas workers. Especially its overseas workers, who get payed as little as $6 a week to make your nike trainers. Coffee bean farmers get exploited by Starbucks..

2. Corporations especially the Oil giants have had massive tax cuts from your dear president, This makes up a huge chunk of tax revenue for you country.

3. Corporations especially oil giants exploit tax loopholes by basing parts of there companys in the carribean.

1. Those working for low corporate wages would then be making exactly WHAT if they were not working for the evil corporation? What BA doesn't mention here is that the cost of living in these countries is not equal to the cost of living in America.

Starbucks? You really are stretching aren't you? Starbucks is only a small percentage of the coffee market.....a smalllllllllllllll percentage.

2. What BA doesn't mention here is that every single tax paying American citizen received tax cuts. And trust me here........we don't need a lecture about taxes in America.

3. What BA doesn't mention here is that it is only good business practice to protect the bottom line from evasive taxes. If loop holes exist is it mine or the corporations fault?

Corporations aren't evil BA an S&A. Individual people are evil. Corporations are good. Capitalism is good. I see BA makes fine use of corporate enterprise in the creation of his art. I would be willing to bet he also wears shoes, drinks beverages, and consumes food from the evil corporation. Try doing it all on your own BA and then come back and talk to me about how evil the Capitalist Machine is. How many corporate executives do you actually know on a first name basis? I know many and they are for the most part very well educated, intelligent, and very personable and friendly folk.

[reese2]

YAY Joc......

[Fluffybunny]

Oh god...

I agree with joc.

**help me**

[reese2]

Nothing wrong with that.. Joc can be under rated sometimes...

[Me_Again]

"What if I gave up everything, for that one thing

wouldn't that be something..."

Corporate America needs to be transformed.

[Novo]

DONTJudge me joc, you dont know the first thing about who I am,

for one thing,

I know you are young but that doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

Just because I dont think like you, doesnt make me a imbecil

Try really hard to grasp Reality and hold onto it. Please.

What reality are you speaking of? your mentioning all sorts of things about how wonderful america is, but personally I dont care how great something is. as long as it thrives off the suffering of others, then I dont want anything to do with it.

What BA doesn't mention here is that every single tax paying American citizen received tax cuts. And trust me here........we don't need a lecture about taxes in America.

yeah, that 200 dollars REALLY helped, at best it was enough for my grandparents to pay for there over-priced for medications for a month.President bush could buy his daughters 2 hummers with the money he got from his tax-cut

would be willing to bet he also wears shoes, drinks beverages, and consumes food from the evil corporation. Try doing it all on your own BA and then come back and talk to me about how evil the Capitalist Machine is.

I cant speak for BA but personally, I only wear organic clothing, I dont eat meat or any animal bi-products, and I dont discriminate against people based on there religion. *Removed deregatory Remark*

Edited August 27, 2004 by Student&Alive

[Velikovsky]

Also what joc doesn't mention here is this:

1. The capatilist corporations exploit its workers, farmers, and overseas workers. Especially its overseas workers, who get payed as little as $6 a week to make your nike trainers. Coffee bean farmers get exploited by Starbucks..

2. Corporations especially the Oil giants have had massive tax cuts from your dear president, This makes up a huge chunk of tax revenue for you country.

3. Corporations especially oil giants exploit tax loopholes by basing parts of there companys in the carribean.

1. Those working for low corporate wages would then be making exactly WHAT if they were not working for the evil corporation? What BA doesn't mention here is that the cost of living in these countries is not equal to the cost of living in America.

Starbucks? You really are stretching aren't you? Starbucks is only a small percentage of the coffee market.....a smalllllllllllllll percentage.

2. What BA doesn't mention here is that every single tax paying American citizen received tax cuts. And trust me here........we don't need a lecture about taxes in America.

3. What BA doesn't mention here is that it is only good business practice to protect the bottom line from evasive taxes. If loop holes exist is it mine or the corporations fault?

1. You're right they don't have the same cost of living as in America. They also don't have health care, modern plumbing, good nutrition or any of the conveniences we have in America. There's a reason why they're called sweat shops and why they're considered to be just barely above slave labor. The major corporations do exploit these people.

2. Again you're right every American did receive tax cuts. Yet those same tax cuts were designed to benefit the super wealthy. Not the middle class or the lower class who benefit the most. Wow I got my $400. Lets all run down to Wal-Mart.

3. Yet those tax loop holes were put there by elected officials who then received nice big paychecks from the companies.

Our current government is corrupt, Our corporations are corrupt. Our banks are corrupt. There is no longer a simple respect for human dignity. Most people are basically good. If they were just better informed and more willing to take action we might have some changes for the good. Anarchy is not chaos. That is a misconception and a lie spread to discredit Anarchy. Anarchy is actually very close to Liberterianism. The only government we need is to protect our borders and protect our people. The only law we need is to do no harm. That's it that's all we need. The current set of laws we have are designed to take the power away from the people and place that power in the hands of the few.

The biggest fix our country needs is to go back to the constition and to follow it. Seven articles and twenty seven amendments. Thats about all we need.

[+joc]

Wow I got my $400. Lets all run down to Wal-Mart.

Yes, please do....and consider the effect that 100 million people running out to spend their money at Wal-Mart has on the economy. When people have a tax cut they generally spend it....and that stimulates growth in the economy. More refrigerators are bought, more stoves, down payments on new cars, etc., etc.

yeah, that 200 dollars REALLY helped, at best it was enough for my grandparents to pay for there over-priced for medications for a month.President bush could buy his daughters 2 hummers with the money he got from his tax-cut

You are not an Anarchist. You are not a Libertarian either. That quote is straight out of the Democrat Handbook. You have betrayed yourself!

Oh god...

I agree with joc.

**help me**

 

Scary stuff!

Edited August 27, 2004 by joc

[Novo]

yeah, that 200 dollars REALLY helped, at best it was enough for my grandparents to pay for there over-priced for medications for a month.President bush could buy his daughters 2 hummers with the money he got from his tax-cut

how joc, does this make me sound like a democrat? All im saying, is that 200 dollars doesnt help ANYONE very much at all, end story. please do tell, im Afeared