196 replies to this topic

[redhen]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way.

No, just gullible.

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As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self. I mean we are talking about people who care nothing about killing innocent people everyday.

Actually, I used the Gulf of Tonkin incident in my 911 thread as example of the kind of evidence I would like to see, ideally, from truthers.

[redhen]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

So is labling a entire group of people some snide nic name as though somehow you are better then them.

No, it's just a handy label. Also, I believe many people self-identify as truthers.

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Although I agree, anyone who would harrass those parents are sick.

Good for you, seriously.

[Ryinrea]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

From what I understand footage was released just days after showing just clips of them in the school with the weapons in hand. They didnt show them actualy killing anyone till way after. Personaly I dont want to see, nor do I think they should ever release footage of him killing those babies. That would be beyond sick. I just want to see the gun, and if the official story is true find out why "several officails" lied about the AR still being in his car.



Great movie. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

The special effects were awesome should not expect any less from Peter Jackson. He brought my favorite books to life.


I agree that showing afterwards while in court during documentaries as well. But I don't want to see it either in my opinion its distasteful to show that type of thing....

[pallidin]

AsteroidX, on 15 January 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Please tell me you mean the local coroner.

No, it was the chief medical examiner for the state of Conneticut and his team brought in to Sandy Hook.

[Ryinrea]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way. As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self. I mean we are talking about people who care nothing about killing innocent people everyday.

If those people worked with law enforcement they will understand; why eye witness testimony is handle as just one part of the story, since  a person memory can fade overtime. I  also bet we will not see the weapon until the investigation is completed

[Liquid Gardens]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah I find often that people who believe everything the media tells them instantly acuse people who see clear inconsistanties as being mentaly disturbed in some way.

Never met anyone who believes 'everything' the media tells them.  Not one.

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As though government havent been out right caught, or even admit years later that things werent as they seemed. Gulf of Tonkin comes to mind. Truth is false flag operations are as old as war its self.

But why are you drawing your lines so narrowly?  If you don't think that things coming from the hundreds of thousands of people who comprise 'the government' can be trusted at all because the government have stated things that didn't turn out to be true, then likewise why trust any conspiracy theorist since we have ample evidence that conspiracy theorists have also said things that are not true?

[redhen]

Liquid Gardens, on 15 January 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

But why are you drawing your lines so narrowly?

Bingo !

"The point is that the more a claim accords with our background beliefs, the less strong its own credentials must be. (The claim that is snowed in Minnesota in December does not need strong credentials to be accepted). The less a new claim is in accordance with these background beliefs, the stronger its own credentials must be), (The claim that it snowed in Florida in July needs very strong credentials). Any new claim, no matter how outlandish (that is, no matter how much it conflicts with our background beliefs), could conceivably turn out to be true. But some claims are so outlandish they must have extraordinary strong credentials if they are to be taken seriously.   The elements of reasoning, 5th edition, Munson - Black

Or more succinctly as Carl Sagan would say, "extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence"

p.s. by background beliefs is meant the reasonable beliefs that you already hold. Of which most of them are accepted from the word of others, since we can't be experts in everything.

Edited by redhen, 15 January 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[socrates.junior]

Besides which, almost every inconsistency in accounts can be explained in terms of...eyewitness testimony being unreliable.

Weird how that works.

[Likely Guy]

I learned in other threads that if you suspect a conspiracy you have to consider who had the most to gain from the event.

Coincidentally, I read today that the NRA sold 100,000 new memberships in the last month. Also, gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof since Sandy Hook.

Hmmm. There's another conspiracy theory there for someone. Not me.

I'll have a window seat please...

[Imaginarynumber1]

preacherman76, on 15 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

https://www.youtube....h?v=IqpjJ6P-NSQ

Told not by one, but by "several officials" that the AR was in the car

Well, they "told" wrong. Have a look at the video of the weapon coming out of the trunk. It's a shotgun.

Imaginarynumber1, on 15 January 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

https://www.youtube....h?v=wLrxSgkqJQc

That's clearly a shotgun coming out of the trunk, not an AR.

[Tmars78]

Imaginarynumber1, on 16 January 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Well, they "told" wrong. Have a look at the video of the weapon coming out of the trunk. It's a shotgun.

I've watched that video like 100s of times, and even when I close my eyes and pretend, I do not see an AR-15. That is CLEARLY a shotgun. Anyone who believes that is an AR-15 has never seen one. My brother's best friend owns an AR, and it looks nothing like the gun in that video. If he did have an AR, which they say was there, my money is on him having it on him and using it. It wasn't in the car, so the only other logical place for it, would be with him.

Edited by Tmars78, 16 January 2013 - 02:43 AM.

[redhen]

Likely Guy, on 16 January 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

I learned in other threads that if you suspect a conspiracy you have to consider who had the most to gain from the event.

Gain? Sometimes people do things because they believe it's the right thing to do. Of course they be wrong, Like President Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Anyways, lots of other alternatives, to stop Communism, help allies, etc. Why do you guys always assume it's aliens, or the "world banking system",

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Coincidentally, I read today that the NRA sold 100,000 new memberships in the last month. Also, gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof since Sandy Hook.

Again, there are more plausible explanations; an advance run on guns at the store, before the gummit gets 'em, people taking a political stand, etc. Your automatic assumption is that the NRA orchestrated the school massacre to increase its membership.

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Hmmm. There's another conspiracy theory there for someone. Not me.

Whew, that's a relief. Good for you.

[DONTEATUS]

Such bad taste in even thinking there was anything other than the Horror !

[sslama]

I'm sure there is some conspiracy out there but it's just knowing which ones are true and which are not.   Here's one ...George Bush is actually smart...lol.  Seriously, even when there is proof their is a small group of people who just won't let it go.

[Likely Guy]

redhen, on 16 January 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

Gain? Sometimes people do things because they believe it's the right thing to do. Of course they be wrong, Like President Johnson and the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Anyways, lots of other alternatives, to stop Communism, help allies, etc. Why do you guys always assume it's aliens, or the "world banking system",

Again, there are more plausible explanations; an advance run on guns at the store, before the gummit gets 'em, people taking a political stand, etc. Your automatic assumption is that the NRA orchestrated the school massacre to increase its membership.

Whew, that's a relief. Good for you.

That was 'tongue in cheek' if you will, or 'putting the shoe on the other foot'. It is time, sometimes, for the conspiracy crowd to understand where that 'proof', comes from.

It comes from unsubstantiated sources. I can make it up too, or a you-tube video, or a blog.

If 5 bloggers took my rumour that the NRA was behind the 'hoax' and ran with it, there might be 100 sites next week that would spout it as truth.

That doesn't make it true!

They call people 'sheeple' for believing the 'main stream media'. But they'll believe and propagate some unsourced video.

People aren't any more media savy than they were before the internet. Back in the good old days there used to be 'editors'. Yes, that is an antiquated term.

Now, with internet 'yahoos', the 'editor' has become the 'Enter' button. I hope that one day,'media awareness' becomes a mandatory class in middle high school, quickly followed by a class in 'critical thinking'.

Critical thinking doesn't come to anyone naturally. It's an exercise.