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The Woman clothed with the Sun...

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#106    euroninja

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:01 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 29 April 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Trolls push buttons while misunderstanding everything...go back to making fun of blood-clots.
You called me a troll and you don't know anything about me. For your information my girlfriend had a bloodclot. Did I mention bloodclot? I don't make fun of people. I had a minor paralysis but nothing deadly but this is not about who's the best martyr. You're avoiding answering my heros question. If you're judging my knowledge because of English it's my foreign language. You said you're not into Kabbalah so why did you mention it? I know something about it and still you said those mean things about me. My best friends like brothers to me are Hasidic Jews. They're mystic Jews.

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Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.

#107    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:19 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 29 April 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Hi Mark,

With all due respect, and I do respect your beliefs, do we really know what "ignorant bliss" means, when it boils down to Adam and Eve before the Fall of Man? Think about it, they were WITH God on a daily basis, just like the seraphim...

"They would need to be judged individually." Could you please give me link on that?

God bless.

Ignorant bliss means existing in the state you described without having a clue what evil is.

Just google it for many quotes about God judging each individual. Religions tend to lump people together and I think that is a gigantic mistake/failure of human intelligence.

Evil is obviously a big part of why we are all here and it is ultimately totally unnecessary IMO.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#108    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:39 AM

View PostJor-el, on 29 April 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

If I may, what has chaos theory to do with this subject? Nothing in my view. I hope you realize that your phrase "If God is all" is incorrect.

You brought it up. God is All is the hermetic theory that co-exists with their chaos theory which I totally reject.


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It is not a biblical concept. God is not all... God is not the universe, the universe is a constructed artifact. God is not a part of it, just as you are not part of the computer you are using. You interact with it, you can even manipulate and create code for it, but it isn't a part of you.

If I built the computer out of my toenail clippings then it would be part of me.

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Chaos theory simply states that an event or initial cause will have unforseen repurcussions in a specific system, due to the interconnected nature of that system. That is why we call it the butterfly effect. It exists because we cannot determine all the variables involved in a system and since those variables change according to other independent events,  we have a cascade effect that does not allow confident prediction. Since this is directly related to the nature of the universe we live in, which again, is an artifact, it has absolutely nothing to do with God. God can however manipulate these events perfectly, if he should choose to do so.

Yeah, I was talking about the God is All/chaos theory which states that God created from a primal chaos...God would know all the variables.



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I'll stick to the actual Hebrew thank you, I do not rely on any translation at all, not even the famed KJV. Gematria is another piece of useless junk. Anyone who knows anything about the development of the Hebrew language knows that this is all a waste of ones time. God didn't give the Torah to Israel in the Hebraic form we have now, that form has only existed since the 10th Century B.C., ie, that was around the time of David. So in what language did Moses write the Torah? What writing did he use?

I'll give you a hint, it wasn't biblical Hebrew.

Good for you. I'm pretty sure King James' people knew that.



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I never said anything about incubus impregnation.... if you are actually interested in knowing more about this then go here.

It is a long video (80 min) but it should be well worth the time for someone who is interested in learning more.



You were talking about sex with inhuman sons of God. That will always sound a lot like incubus... getting pregnant from it? I don't think so. I prefer to believe they had to incarnate if they want to do that, and an actual human body would help with the teaching of metal work etc.

Maybe I'll have time to check that out later.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#109    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:51 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 April 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

Ignorant bliss means existing in the state you described without having a clue what evil is.

Just google it for many quotes about God judging each individual. Religions tend to lump people together and I think that is a gigantic mistake/failure of human intelligence.
The word "ignorant" has a negative connotation. I, personally, wouldn't choose the phrase "ignorant bliss" but to each his own. Adam and Eve were "innocent" (bliss), completely "unaware" of evil -- makes a BIG difference.

Have you ever wondered to whom God was talking when He said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." Since God can't be evil... Don't you think it has a tone of lamentation on His part?

"Sons of God" are not just anyone. Again, I respect your beliefs, Mark, but since I've sided with Christ, I must follow the Bible's narrative, which includes the links I have previously listed (and more). I may be new to Christianity, but my foundation is solid due to my first-hand encounter. I don't bite the hand that saved me. My prodigy mind is also quick to learn, and retains knowledge almost like an elephant's memory. I have made a point of it to spend most of my life researching His story.

God bless.

Edited by braveone2u, 30 April 2013 - 01:59 AM.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#110    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:03 AM

View Posteuroninja, on 30 April 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

You called me a troll and you don't know anything about me. For your information my girlfriend had a bloodclot. Did I mention bloodclot? I don't make fun of people. I had a minor paralysis but nothing deadly but this is not about who's the best martyr. You're avoiding answering my heros question. If you're judging my knowledge because of English it's my foreign language. You said you're not into Kabbalah so why did you mention it? I know something about it and still you said those mean things about me. My best friends like brothers to me are Hasidic Jews. They're mystic Jews.

View Posteuroninja, on 28 April 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

The worst thing with kabbhala is finding yourself in a hell and squirming yourself out of it with paralysis. I read a guy died while the other went insane. The fellow who passed it along in europe didn't reach heaven or he wouldn't have lived to tell about it. :tu: Jesus didn't need it. Your right the god who handed it down is pretty evil. It ain't God.

You must also like p***ing off your "best friends" for no apparent reason.

Look, you popped into this thread just to continue p***ing me off from another thread; it's what trolls do. Can't you even tell when you are being a troll? Try to work on not being such a troll in the future. I had started Trolls Anonymous as a joke thread here a long time ago, but feel free to search for it and start trolling over there if you can't understand anything in this thread.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#111    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:10 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 30 April 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

The word "ignorant" has a negative connotation. I, personally, wouldn't choose the phrase "ignorant bliss" but to each his own. Adam and Eve were "innocent" (bliss), completely "unaware" of evil -- makes a BIG difference.

Have you ever wondered to whom God was talking when He said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." Since God can't be evil... Don't you think it has a tone of lamentation on His part?

"Sons of God" are not just anyone. Again, I respect your beliefs, Mark, but since I've sided with Christ, I must follow the Bible's narrative, which includes the links I have previously listed (and more). I may be new to Christianity, but my foundation is solid due to my first-hand encounter. I don't bite the hand that saved me. My prodigy mind is also quick to learn, and retains knowledge almost like an elephant's memory. I have made a point of it to spend most of my life researching His story.

God bless.

Okay, Innocent Bliss then. I'm fine with that. I appreciate your experience.

God knows evil and so do I. That's why I was born, apparently. Hell, I wrote the book on it.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#112    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:15 AM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 April 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

God knows evil and so do I. That's why I was born, apparently. Hell, I wrote the book on it.
:lol:

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#113    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 03:26 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 30 April 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

:lol:

I was not kidding:

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"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#114    Jor-el

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 April 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

You brought it up. God is All is the hermetic theory that co-exists with their chaos theory which I totally reject.

Actually you brought it up by talking of a number of things that demonstrated a certain inability to understand the concepts being discussed. I reject that God is all hermetic theory or chaos theory, he is neither.

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If I built the computer out of my toenail clippings then it would be part of me.

Am I supposed to laugh at this? I'm wondering if you are joking or actually being serious which would demonstrate that you have no understanding of God, except in a vague sense.

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Yeah, I was talking about the God is All/chaos theory which states that God created from a primal chaos...God would know all the variables.

Which the bible totally rejects, as I have preciously stated. God did no such thing. The Enuma elis would fit your bill though.

God did not create from primal chaos, his creation is called "ex nihilo" for good reason. Yet I have no doubt that he is intimately aware of all things in our universe down to the very probabilities of the quantum foam.

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Good for you. I'm pretty sure King James' people knew that.

I sincerely doubt it, just as I sincerely doubt that most so called bible code enthusiasts do as well.

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You were talking about sex with inhuman sons of God. That will always sound a lot like incubus... getting pregnant from it? I don't think so. I prefer to believe they had to incarnate if they want to do that, and an actual human body would help with the teaching of metal work etc.

Maybe I'll have time to check that out later.

When you have the time please do, it would avoid such comparisons with incubii

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#115    markprice

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostIrrelevant, on 29 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

... I shall repeat it here. God is a symbol of the Sun, the Sea are the people, when the sun hits the sea the water is purified (enough to be drinkable) and it makes a cloud...


I like that.



View PostJor-el, on 30 April 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Actually you brought it up by talking of a number of things that demonstrated a certain inability to understand the concepts being discussed. I reject that God is all hermetic theory or chaos theory, he is neither.

Not really, you brought it up explicitly when you said God did not create from chaos and I agreed with you and then you disagreed with what I agreed with--the definition of misunderstanding.



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Am I supposed to laugh at this? I'm wondering if you are joking or actually being serious which would demonstrate that you have no understanding of God, except in a vague sense

If you had a sense of humor but I was deadpan serious. God is All.

Unfortunately everyone here seems to be borderline fundamentalist so I've lost interest. Irrelevant was a rare exception and really made this thread worthwhile.

"How can someone prove that a rainbow exists to a blind man?"

#116    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 April 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

I was not kidding:

Posted Image
Congratulations, Mark! I will definitely buy a copy today and am looking forward to reading it.

Have a good evening.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#117    Jor-el

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:59 PM

View Postmarkprice, on 30 April 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Not really, you brought it up explicitly when you said God did not create from chaos and I agreed with you and then you disagreed with what I agreed with--the definition of misunderstanding.

Misunderstandings occur by the improper transmission of data, if that is the case, I would ask that you clarify what you meant so that I can understand you.

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If you had a sense of humor but I was deadpan serious. God is All.

Unfortunately everyone here seems to be borderline fundamentalist so I've lost interest. Irrelevant was a rare exception and really made this thread worthwhile.

You mention misunderstangs and then you say "God is all". No, God is not all. God is not you, God is not me, God is not this planet, this solar system, this galaxy or even this universe.

Fundamentalist in the strict sense of the word means holding to the "fundamental or basic principles" of something, in this case, the bible, so yes that would make me a fundamentalist.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#118    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostJor-el, on 30 April 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

God did not create from primal chaos, his creation is called "ex nihilo" for good reason. Yet I have no doubt that he is intimately aware of all things in our universe down to the very probabilities of the quantum foam.
Hi Jor-el,

The way I got it from the Void is that our very essence (and that includes the things of this universe), is a data storage. God has easy access it. It's the reason why God knows what's in our "hearts." Other gods also have the same capability. As I have mentioned earlier, to switch from a god to Jesus Christ has its consequences. We really can't fool the gods (collectively speaking).

I believed deep in my heart that what I used to call the "Flow" (when I used to be a kundalini conduit) was the Holy Spirit, Itself. At any rate, this "innocent" notion was really what got me rescued by Jesus Christ.

Regarding Mark's comment about Adam and Eve being ignorant, they were no dummy because "The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." As we all know, farming is quite complex. I should know that, without going into details.

Peace always.

Edited by braveone2u, 01 May 2013 - 12:35 AM.

"Also, if they (Gospels) were written early (before 70 AD), this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them."

#119    Bluefinger

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:09 AM

View Postand then, on 25 April 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

The woman is Israel, the twelve stars are the tribes of Israel, the child is Christ and the moon under her feet is false religion in defeat.  It is a picture of the end state for mankind.  This is how it was explained to me - that and a buck fifty will buy you a cup of decent coffee  :yes:

The woman is indeed Israel:

"Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." But when he told it to his father and to his brothers, his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall I and your mother and your brothers indeed come to bow ourselves to the ground before you?" (Genesis 37:9, 10 ESV)

It is the nation of Israel, regarded in a historical sense from the author's perspective.  The nation was exiled to Babylon, represented by the woman pregnant and in travail:

"Now why do you cry aloud? Is there no king in you? Has your counselor perished, that pain seized you like a woman in labor? Writhe and groan, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in labor, for now you shall go out from the city and dwell in the open country; you shall go to Babylon. There you shall be rescued; there the Lord will redeem you from the hand of your enemies." (Micah 4:9, 10 ESV)

Upon the exile, seven Gentile nations [the dragon] ruled over her, causing many to look to a deliverer.  During the time of this oppression, the Greek ruler Antiochus IV Epiphanes slaughtered the Jews and compelled many to forsake the Covenant:

"It grew great, even to the host of heaven. And some of the host and some of the stars it threw down to the ground and trampled on them. His power shall be great— but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints. By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his own mind he shall become great. Without warning he shall destroy many. And he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes, and he shall be broken—but by no human hand." (Daniel 8:10, 24, 25 ESV)

Then the Romans took over Jerusalem and installed Herod on the throne, whom wanted to kill any threat to his hold on the throne.  Thus the dragon stood before the woman waiting to devour her child.  

The child, Jesus, was caught up to God and His throne.  Then the Covenant saints fled to the wilderness, or fled Jerusalem.  Acts covers this well:

"And Saul approved of his execution. And there arose on that day a great persecution against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles." (Acts 8:1 ESV)

You see, the king was thought of as the head of Jerusalem.  Jerusalem, then, is more than a city or temple.  The Church was considered to be the body of the King.  So when they fled, Jerusalem and the Nation of Israel fled, leaving behind what Revelation 11:8 calls Sodom and Egypt.

It has nothing to do with astrology.  Interesting find though!



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#120    Irrelevant

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

Hi Bluefinger..the prophecy is in the book or revelations...we all understand it from the fundamentalist point of view..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman_of_the_Apocalypse

for some of us we don't follow fundimentalism because it can mislead people, being that the ideas are formed by a bunch of people , then when there satisfied its put to those who follow them and if any spots a discrepancy there condemned.Most here are simply led by the Spirit of God through the words of Jesus.

There's some here who are just led by the spirit of God.

What you suggested doesn't account for The One Who Will Rule With A Rod Of Iron..this is The Lord of the Second Advent.

It may appear as if its old history but its about our present time! That's because history repeats..

The red Dragon is communism, the many heads are those who followed communism, 1/3 of the stars or 1/3 of humanity were under this false doctrine..Also not its about Michael and his Angels, Gabriel was the age of Jesus.

This prophesy is not talking about things that have happened in the long distant past.

Jesus words " I have many things to tell you but you can't bare them now but when the spirit of truth comes he will reveal all" this is also talking about the new truth that will be offered by Lord of Second Advent or 3rd Adam.

Also in revelations:

The angel handed John a book that tasted sweet as honey in the mouth but turns bitter in the stomach.. This is that new truth..

Also in Genises:

The tree of life, Jesus said he was the tree of life, likewise Adam was the tree of Life in his age, 12 trees surrounded him. This is symbolism but should be easy to work out if I said 12 trees surrounded Jesus. Eve was tree of knowledge of good and evil (Kane and Abel ) however if they didn't fall and she reached full growth then she would have been a tree of knowledge of good. When she reached this level she her and Adam could have eaten her fruit all they like, please also note they covered there sinful areas, its human nature to cover your mouth when you swear Yes? It's human nature to try cover the sin from shame..

It may come as a surprise that humans were created to be above the angels, do you know the angels wanted God to destroy the world and start again?! but God would not be God if he was defeated by Lucifer, so are we created with capacity above the Angels of course we were! Look at Jesus, he was above the Angels, All would have been had the Fall not occured, in some way this was lucifers motivation to do what he Did. However after the fall humans fell below the level of creation. We inherited Satans linage , and this is why Jesus says that there father is in them. Both God and Satan have had claim to humans..but this will change soon. When we are reborn into God satan is still in us, however we can achieve salvation through Jesus.

However when The Lord of Second Advent comes he will destroy the physical Linage, he baptises in the Flesh..this is what that means, Physical Salvation, Satan will be erased, the old world forgotten ..

The Lord of Second Advent comes from the east, even those who practice Islam know this as that's why they pray to the east!

We purposely muddled the book of revelations to confuse Satan and it worked, just like at the time of Jesus birth Satan tried to kill him before he could complete the mission.  Hitler was led to kill the Jews specifically because he was tricked into thinking he was in the Jews ...the parable of the fig tree given by Jesus is clear , I'd suggest everybody learn it and its meaning as a first point of call.

Please learn and understand the parable of the fig tree..

For all the learning that can be done from all the scripture it's still not possible to understand the spirit world, this will be revealed and a great many other things by The Lord Of The Second Advent.

Jesus stated on the cross it is finished because his mission was finished  as far as it was possible to do.his prayer to let this cup pass was in the hope he could continue his mission if it be possible,  However the kingdom of heaven has not come and that was the Lords Prayer for it to come!  So if we love Jesus we should honour him by prayer for what he said " the Kingdom come on earth"


Your message was well researched but the prophecey of the woman with 12 stars clearly pertains to The Lord of second advent.

Thank you for the kind words to me from those here, I'm am doing my best for our Father in Heaven in my new mission, this mission involves helping a person who has suffered terribly. I'm  very tired ATM but receive your love and wish to give it back..  I pray for you all to be blessed.

Try not to get bogged down in the letter of theology, but capture its essence, its written by men, men make mistakes, only one dosnt and thats God! we were created to live beyond that, not to enslaved by any doctrine but to be free in God,  the kingdom of heaven is inside us. If  Adam and Eve had not fallen there would never have been a need for any religion or Saviour! ! all humanity would have been true sons and daughters from the begining and born of the Heavenly Father only instead of reborn adopted sons of God. It's  important find the essence of God and capture him in your heart. to have The Lord with you in your thought and with every action.


Bye now and God Bless.

Edited by Irrelevant, 02 May 2013 - 11:33 AM.






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