Still Waters Posted February 19, 2015 #1 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Police in Michigan have determined that a mishap involving a bra holster led to the death of a local politician and pageant champion. Christina Bond, a 55-year-old mother of two, fatally shot herself in the eye while attempting to secure her handgun. http://www.telegraph...ra-holster.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted February 19, 2015 #2 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Whoops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 19, 2015 #3 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Leg holsters are so much better in many ways. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 19, 2015 #4 Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Sad. The cop that shot himself in the foot talking about gun safety in front of high schoolers was semi funny, but gun accidents are no joke. Never chamber a round of you don't need to and if you want to get good at quick draw be able to chamber and quick draw at the same time. Training is everything. Edited February 19, 2015 by White Crane Feather 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 20, 2015 #5 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sad. The cop that shot himself in the foot talking about gun safety in front of high schoolers was semi funny, but gun accidents are no joke. Never chamber a round of you don't need to and if you want to get good at quick draw be able to chamber and quick draw at the same time. Training is everything. I agree, gun accidents are not jokes. I always keep a round chambered...that is what the safety is for. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted February 20, 2015 #6 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Been around guns my whole life,i have never seen or known anyone who has done or had some of the crazy *snip* we have heard about in recent memory happen to them... Sad story but damn! Edited February 21, 2015 by rashore rule 3c 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #7 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I agree, gun accidents are not jokes. I always keep a round chambered...that is what the safety is for. Things are changing though. The definition of a safety is changing in ways that I don't even agree with. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted February 20, 2015 #8 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Woman shoots herself adjusting bra holster Buffoon !!! Firearms / gun carry - mode of carry: Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the safety is off. Condition 1 - Also called "cocked and locked", this means that a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety is on. Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is uncocked. Condition 3 - There is no round in the chamber, the hammer is uncocked but a fully loaded magazine is inserted in the mag well. Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, the hammer is uncocked and there is no magazine inserted in the mag well: source - Thorsen "I always keep a round chambered...that is what the safety is for." M #5 "Safety"?! That's what it's called. It may be the most severely mis-named gun component there is. I hope your affairs are in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 20, 2015 #9 Share Posted February 20, 2015 "Safety"?! That's what it's called. It may be the most severely mis-named gun component there is. I hope your affairs are in order. I'm over fifty years old and no one I have ever known has ever had a mishap with a gun. Apparently, we have all been trained very well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #10 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Buffoon !!! [/size][/color][/font] "Safety"?! That's what it's called. It may be the most severely mis-named gun component there is. I hope your affairs are in order. Well.. If that's they way you evaluate things, then you should never get in a car or take prescription medications given by a doctor. ;) Edited February 20, 2015 by White Crane Feather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 20, 2015 #11 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Not an accident. She killed her self through her own negligence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #12 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Not an accident. She killed her self through her own negligence. An accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh17 Posted February 20, 2015 #13 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Buffoon !!! [/size][/color][/font] "Safety"?! That's what it's called. It may be the most severely mis-named gun component there is. I hope your affairs are in order. Find one Police Officer in the US that has a semi auto that needs a round chambered before he fires it on the streets. Not gonna happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 20, 2015 #14 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) An accident. So no one was at fault? She shot herself. She was negligent, it was not an accident. Edited February 20, 2015 by Thanato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #15 Share Posted February 20, 2015 So no one was at fault? She shot herself. She was negligent, it was not an accident. Rhetoric. She did not intend to shoot herself. I'm sure she had a life and a family and was a fairly strong women. Do not preach that crap unless you walk to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 20, 2015 #16 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Rhetoric. She did not intend to shoot herself. I'm sure she had a life and a family and was a fairly strong women. Do not preach that crap unless you walk to work. She had a round down the spout. The only way this was an accident is if the weapon malfunctioned and discharged. If it was not a weapons malfunction it was negligence. In my profession, weapons handling is taken extremely seriously, I am also a firearms owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #17 Share Posted February 20, 2015 She had a round down the spout. The only way this was an accident is if the weapon malfunctioned and discharged. If it was not a weapons malfunction it was negligence. In my profession, weapons handling is taken extremely seriously, I am also a firearms owner. I don't care. Do you walk to work? I know what her mistake was, and she payed for it dearly so did her family, but she screwed up. Let's say you drive your car and get distracted for 2 seconds and cause an accident that kills you. It happens more than gun accidents. I'm not saying she was right in her protocal I'm saying it was an accident. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 20, 2015 #18 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I don't care. Do you walk to work? I know what her mistake was, and she payed for it dearly so did her family, but she screwed up. Let's say you drive your car and get distracted for 2 seconds and cause an accident that kills you. It happens more than gun accidents. I'm not saying she was right in her protocal I'm saying it was an accident. I do not walk to work. But I have driven and walked many dozens of Km's with loaded and readied rifles, pistols, and machine guns. Never have I caused a negligent discharge (which covers all unintentional discharges not the result of weapons failure). The only firearms accidents are caused by weapons failure. If I cause an 'accident' with my truck it was because I was negligent behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted February 20, 2015 #19 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hang on , she was adjusting the holster and it discharged ? How does that work with the bra holster ? She was looking down and the gun was pointing up ? A little too close for the shot to get at the eye ? ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2015 #20 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I do not walk to work. But I have driven and walked many dozens of Km's with loaded and readied rifles, pistols, and machine guns. Never have I caused a negligent discharge (which covers all unintentional discharges not the result of weapons failure). The only firearms accidents are caused by weapons failure. If I cause an 'accident' with my truck it was because I was negligent behind the wheel. Did you mean to cause that accident? I'm willing to bet you had fairly good training with your weapons. Characterizing an accident as negligence and blaming it on your own cognative bias is simply silly. We don't drive dangerous tons of metal perpendicular to each other and when *snip* goes wrong call it negligence. It happens all the time, you my friend are suffering from the dun Kruger affect. Edited February 21, 2015 by rashore rule 3c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted February 20, 2015 #21 Share Posted February 20, 2015 "Find one Police Officer in the US that has a semi auto that needs a round chambered before he fires it on the streets. Not gonna happen." R #13 I don't know what you intend this to mean. That COPs, professionals that are required to carry a sidearm as a part of their uniform, carry in condition #1? a) I don't think she was a COP. Anyone living in a neighborhood so dangerous that s/he has to carry "cocked and locked" perhaps s/he should strongly consider moving. c) "Safety Is No Accident!" Do we really need to spell out the obvious?! Having a gun to defend ones self is fine. Our Constitution enshrines the right. But when "self-defense" becomes the mortal danger: "Houston! We have a problem!" Anyone that can't possess a gun without harming themselves with it shouldn't possess a gun. HELLOOOOOOO !?!?!?! PS Anyone that wants a gun; that's FINE! I STRONGLY recommend Condition #3 or higher, mode of possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted February 20, 2015 #22 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Did you mean to cause that accident? I'm willing to bet you had fairly good training with your weapons. Characterizing an accident as negligence and blaming it on your own cognative bias is simply silly. We don't drive dangerous tons of metal perpendicular to each other and when **** goes wrong call it negligence. It happens all the time, you my friend are suffering from the dun Kruger affect. If I meant to cause a car crash it would neither be an accident or negligent it would be criminal. If the vehicle fails unexpectedly that is a accident. If it fails because of poor or no maintenance that is negligence on either the owner or mechanic. If it crashes due to distraction, failure to drive to road conditions etc, that is negligent. I have had good training. But I Also treat my firearms with the respect they require. Plain and simple, unless the firearm failed, she shot herself due to her own neglegence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted February 20, 2015 #23 Share Posted February 20, 2015 She had a round down the spout. The only way this was an accident is if the weapon malfunctioned and discharged. If it was not a weapons malfunction it was negligence. In my profession, weapons handling is taken extremely seriously, I am also a firearms owner. Accidents and negligence go hand in hand. What makes something a accident is not whether someone was negligent, but whether or not it was intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted February 20, 2015 #24 Share Posted February 20, 2015 "Plain and simple, unless the firearm failed, she shot herself due to her own neglegence." T #22 What a magnificent introduction! Thanks Much T ! There's a component on some guns called a "safety". That's fine. But to call that a misnomer is to under-state the case. On some of the guns I've seen, the "safety" catch can't even be engaged, unless the hammer is cocked. And that is an INTRINSICALLY unsafe condition. Naming it a "safety" doesn't render it safe. It is possible (were it not, would this thread ever have been started?) for the "safety" catch to fail. - Dirt - Lint - Mechanical wear - Metal fatigue - Poor design - Improper maintenance * - Injudicious operation I have Haz Mat, and other industrial safety training. And I have been taught: the components of an "accident" are: - an unsafe condition, & - an unsafe act. The "well, I'll be careful" fantasy is quite common; and in this case proved fatal. She committed an unsafe act, and died. We're human. Making mistakes is what we do! If your plan A is: "I'll be careful", make sure your affairs are in order. Conversely, if you strive to the utmost to eliminate all unsafe conditions, then the phantom unsafe act here or there that would otherwise kill you, can go unnoticed. * To my horror, I learned that some lubricants are EXTREMELY incompatible. I tried one lubricant, and then found that another lubricant turned the previous lubricant as hard as plaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiloh17 Posted February 20, 2015 #25 Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) I don't know what you intend this to mean. That COPs, professionals that are required to carry a sidearm as a part of their uniform, carry in condition #1? a) I don't think she was a COP. Anyone living in a neighborhood so dangerous that s/he has to carry "cocked and locked" perhaps s/he should strongly consider moving. c) "Safety Is No Accident!" Do we really need to spell out the obvious?! Having a gun to defend ones self is fine. Our Constitution enshrines the right. But when "self-defense" becomes the mortal danger: "Houston! We have a problem!" Anyone that can't possess a gun without harming themselves with it shouldn't possess a gun. HELLOOOOOOO !?!?!?! PS Anyone that wants a gun; that's FINE! I STRONGLY recommend Condition #3 or higher, mode of possession. In response to Michelle's post # 5 "Safety"?! That's what it's called. It may be the most severely mis-named gun component there is. I hope your affairs are in order. Police have a round chambered all the time. That's what the safeties are for as Michelle mentioned. And If you use a revolver, you always have one "down the spout" I was pointing out Police won't carry in condition 3 from your list. The way you respond to everyone borders on childish. Edited February 20, 2015 by Realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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