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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#391    cladking

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

View PostTheSearcher, on 07 January 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Is that quote from James Burke, Clad?


Yes, I guess it is.  I just heard it yesterday for the first time ansd was repeating it.  Google says the exact quote is;

"Never before in history have so many known so little about so much of the world around them."

The error was probably my own.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#392    kmt_sesh

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 07 January 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

...

So, it seems to be not a Hard Science, like Physics, or Optics, but it is a Soft Science, like Behavioral Sciences and Genetic and Neural Sciences.

Technically, no, neither Egyptology nor any other field of history is a hard science. "Soft" science is a more accurate description. Nevertheless, in practice Egyptology falls within the realm of science because its approach to study follows the scientific method and its research is governed by stringent protocols. Moreover, Egyptology does regularly employ numerous fields of hard science, be it geology or genetics or physics or satellite imaging, et cetera. Modern Egyptology is a cutting-edge field of inquiry today.

Generally those who like to defame the field of Egyptology are those who are not familiar with it from the start, and who are not familiar with modern research methodology in general. A lot of these folks like to try to brush aside modern research so that there is a more comfortable fit for the myriad of their bizarre fringe and alternative themes, but in the end it's still like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole because the whimsical approach of alternative and fringe proponents is absent almost any noticeable avenue of proper research methodology.

I'll stick with that proper research methodology and the conclusions achieved from it. As I like to say, to this day alternative and fringe proponents have not managed to put a scratch into even the most basic principles of orthodox scholarship. :tu:

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#393    DieChecker

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:55 AM

View Postcladking, on 07 January 2013 - 09:48 PM, said:

View PostDieChecker, on 07 January 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Science collects data. Isn't that what Egyptology is about, at least in part? Digging and collecting data points? Unless the archeologists go looking for data, they will never observe anything new.

I guess you are at least partly right however because Egyptology is partly a study of the ancient peoples and thus a Humanities study.

So, it seems to be not a Hard Science, like Physics, or Optics, but it is a Soft Science, like Behavioral Sciences and Genetic and Neural Sciences.
No.  Science is observation> hypothesis> experiment> conclusion now days.  People simply
mistake the results of this process, technology, for science.  In ancient times I believe science
had a very complitated metaphysic but this is not yet truly proven.  But modern metaphysics
is exceedingly simple.  It is merely the definitions of terms as well as the axioms that together
with the process of science determines its nature and the nature of alkl the resullts.  We lose
sight of what the results mean because metaphysics are not taught even to the scientists.  We
have ended up with all sorts of thought experiments about the nature of reality because we have
mistaken technology for science.  Technology is essentially just the ability to remove a labora-
tory experiment into the real world and is in no way indicative of our knowledge or reality.  The
concrete world still exists outside of the lab and the real world still doesn't give up her secrets.

Real scientists are people like Richard Feynman.  Real scientists don't take much of anything
for granted and when they see an anomaly of any sort thy investigate it.  Almost all human pro-
gress as well as discoveries and inventions are serendipitous.  They are the result of a person
who sees and investigates an anomaly.  In order for a real scientist to be in control at Giza he
would necessarily be performing observations, experimenting, taking measurements, and in-
vestigating anomalies.  None of this is actually occuring.  This doesn't mean that these people
are using voodoo or casting tea leaves but it is not science.
Sure......

But, I don't see how that disagrees with my statement....

Egyptologists MUST dig stuff up to observe it. You can't disagree with digging the stuff up. That is where the datapoints come from. It is how that data is interpreted that you've always had a problem with Orthodox Egyptology.

I'm practically agreeing with you and you're still trying to cut my feet out from under me and have it all your own way.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#394    cladking

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 08 January 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

Sure......

But, I don't see how that disagrees with my statement....

Egyptologists MUST dig stuff up to observe it. You can't disagree with digging the stuff up. That is where the datapoints come from. It is how that data is interpreted that you've always had a problem with Orthodox Egyptology.

I'm practically agreeing with you and you're still trying to cut my feet out from under me and have it all your own way.

Yes.  Indeed, I wrote out a long post to contradict Kmt_Sesh as well but realized the
difference here is largely semantical.

I suppose what I find so disturbing is that most people misapprehend the nature of
science rather than the way the term is applied.  "Science" is merely observation>
hypothesis> experiment> conclusion but people don't understand this.  There are
some definitions and axioms that go with it but people today have forgotten all this.
This means almost every single time modern people make a statement about nature
or about our puny tool, science, they say something false.  This is the norm and call-
ing Egyptology "science" is about akin to saying the sun will rise in the morning.  It's
not really "science" and the sun doesn't really rise.

It's not that I'm trying to be a stickler for accuracy and I never intentionally argue
semantics; it's merely disturbing that people will consider Egytological opinion to have
some scientific and testable basis when it does not.  It is opinion, considered opinion
derived from centuries of hard work and genius but it is mere opinion.  They can't or
won't test the paradigm so they commission studies.  A few of these studies are laugh-
able but most really are the best our modern understanding of nature based on science
can show.

Nothing is set in stone and that includes science.  But the Egyptological paradigm is
not founded on science but rather highly educated opinion.  It galls me a little to hear
it called "science" even though it probably does fall within the accepted meaning of
the term as it is used today.  At the risk of being involved in a semantical argument I'm
forced to concede the point with the preceding caveats.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#395    DieChecker

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:46 AM

View Postcladking, on 08 January 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

....
it's merely disturbing that people will consider Egytological opinion to have some scientific and testable basis when it does not.  It is opinion, considered opinion derived from centuries of hard work and genius but it is mere opinion.  
....
But the Egyptological paradigm is
not founded on science but rather highly educated opinion.
Everything is based on opinion. Science is basically just the basing of opinion on validated facts. The proof of a hypothosis is based on the opinion (usually on many opinions) believing the the data supports or does not support the hypothosis.

I think you simply think that the opinions of Egyptology Orthodoxy is wrong, because you have a different opinion on the existing evidence. That does not make their Science wrong, it only means that the conclusions drawn from the data is in dispute.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#396    cladking

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:14 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 08 January 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Everything is based on opinion. Science is basically just the basing of opinion on validated facts. The proof of a hypothosis is based on the opinion (usually on many opinions) believing the the data supports or does not support the hypothosis.

I think you simply think that the opinions of Egyptology Orthodoxy is wrong, because you have a different opinion on the existing evidence. That does not make their Science wrong, it only means that the conclusions drawn from the data is in dispute.

No.  Science is real and does have real results can do disclose nature and how things work.

It's true there's never a final answer but but the results of experiments are conclusive within
the metaphysics.  If we brought back an ancient Egyptian and he proved to be a stinky footed
bumpkin then the issue would be settled.  If he said the last he remembered was dragging a
stone hither and yon then that would be settled as well.  Of course, we don't have any sort of
determinative experiment that can be done right now but that means we have to go with the
evidence that actually exists until such time as an experiment can be devised.  I believe that
evidence is pretty conclusive that Egyptologists are wrong but all that matters is what I can show
and what they can show.

One of the things I can show pretty dramatically is that the paradigm has failed the test of being
predictive.  This is the very nature of nature; its understanding leads to accurate predictions.  I
said years ago that all the news will support hydraulics and deny ramps.  These caves are news
even while they're being covered up by the powers that be.  They remain caves if they're excava-
ted or not.  They support all of the hydraulic theories and take away from the muscle based theor-
ies and this would be true even if the plateau didn't have the ancient name "Mouth of Caves".

I believe the modern sense of isolation and rootlessness is the result of science and our misun-
derstanding of it.  Ancient science was down to earth and brought people into the whole of both
nature and society. Language itself was the metaphysic.  People were closely connected to every-
thing that flew or walked as well as to all natural processes.  People didn't even think to question
their senses except as an exercise where many modern people question their very existence.  We
question everything now and then try to throw our support to the one thing we think is solid; obser-
vation> hypothesis> experiment> conclusion never realizing that it's this causing our disconnectedness.
And it's our misunderstanding causing us to lose touch with our real roots which is the metaphysics
partially preserved in religion.  We are confused and rootless.  We have come to believe no one is
responsible so we're on a collision course with the effects of the greed that has taken over everything.
Even this belief that people aren't responsible is the result of psuedo science; freudianism.

We need off of this treadmill.  We need to reevaluate our beliefs but more to the point we need to do
the simple science that will tell us the basic things about the great pyramids.

I don't pretend to know the solutions but I know viscerally that people make the best decisions when they
have all the facts.  We need facts and we aren't getting them.  I believe it is critical for these and several
orther reasons.  The human race has been on a 4000 year detour and it probably can't go on as it is.

Meanwhile, all we get is talk about maybe one day they'll do the science that should have been done way
back in the 1970's.  This would be unacceptable at any place and at any time in history so why do we tol-
erate it now?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#397    DieChecker

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:58 AM

View Postcladking, on 08 January 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

We need off of this treadmill.  We need to reevaluate our beliefs but more to the point we need to do
the simple science that will tell us the basic things about the great pyramids.
What if people did reevaluate and even.... with lots of discussion and open mindedness, and tossing about of even the most imaginative things that they can think of, plus soliciting possibilibies from anyone and everyone, and then analysing everything with the current evidence.... even then...... the concensus was on Ramps and Orthodoxy being the best supported theory?? What would you say to that?

Edited by DieChecker, 08 January 2013 - 03:58 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#398    cladking

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 04:28 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 08 January 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

What if people did reevaluate and even.... with lots of discussion and open mindedness, and tossing about of even the most imaginative things that they can think of, plus soliciting possibilibies from anyone and everyone, and then analysing everything with the current evidence.... even then...... the concensus was on Ramps and Orthodoxy being the best supported theory?? What would you say to that?

It won't.

But it's the evidence that must be followed no matter where it leads.  This is basic to
sentience itself.  Anything else is inhuman and evil.

This isn't really a matter for discussion.  Don't get me wrong discussion is a powerful
tool in the right hands and two heads are better than one but it's facts, evidence, data,
and experiments that are needed more than more talking or "peer review".  Orthodoxy
is wrong and what's right could be figured out by a sharp engineering intern in a matter
of months if not weeks.

I don't really care what the answer is but I believe I stumbled on the answer and it just
happens to be very very important if I'm right.  It needs to be studied systematically right
now and all anomalies investigated now.  What is everyone so afraid of?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#399    dreamland

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:48 AM

Guys..can you have some mercy please? this is like reading a book... and it's all off-topic again.


#400    TheSearcher

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

View Postcladking, on 07 January 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Yes, I guess it is.  I just heard it yesterday for the first time ansd was repeating it.  Google says the exact quote is;

"Never before in history have so many known so little about so much of the world around them."

The error was probably my own.

Na mate is was trying to be sure as to whom said this. I didn't point out that is was misquoted, because in essence the quote was correct.

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#401    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:07 AM

Posted Image

This is very striking and any explainations provide by the mainstream to normalise this and dumbing this down will continue to be in vain. 'Helicopter' and a 'car' and a 'spaceship/submarine' to boot......i don't know how the mainstream explains this. Time travel to the past can be the only explaination. :yes:


#402    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 08 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Posted Image

This is very striking and any explainations provide by the mainstream to normalise this and dumbing this down will continue to be in vain. 'Helicopter' and a 'car' and a 'spaceship/submarine' to boot......i don't know how the mainstream explains this. Time travel to the past can be the only explaination. :yes:

This has been explained so many times, it's getting boring.


#403    TheSearcher

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 08 January 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Posted Image

This is very striking and any explainations provide by the mainstream to normalise this and dumbing this down will continue to be in vain. 'Helicopter' and a 'car' and a 'spaceship/submarine' to boot......i don't know how the mainstream explains this. Time travel to the past can be the only explaination. :yes:

Actually the explanation is a lot more down to earth than that.....

Quote

The glyphs are a result of both erosion of the stone surface (evident elsewhere in the temple) and the process of filling in and re-carving the stone to replace some of the original hieroglyphics. The technical term for such a surface that has been written on more than once is a palimpsest. The usurping and modifying of inscriptions was common in ancient Egypt throughout its history. The Abydos glyph was modified at least once in antiquity, and perhaps twice. Some of the filling has fallen out in places where the older and the newer inscriptions overlap, and the result is unique and odd-looking.

You'll find the entire explanation here.

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#404    Harte

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

View Postcladking, on 08 January 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

  If we brought back an ancient Egyptian and he proved to be a stinky footed
bumpkin then the issue would be settled.

Hardly.  We have such people today, yet somebody is designing and building calculators (for example.)

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#405    kmt_sesh

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 05:06 PM

View Postdreamland, on 06 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

kmt_sesh  i am surprised that you or administrator even allow to talk on different subjects. What you guys talking about is completely off-topic which should be " Secret Caves under Pyramids"...

View Postdreamland, on 08 January 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

Guys..can you have some mercy please? this is like reading a book... and it's all off-topic again.

With respect, dreamland, please stop trying to moderate the discussion. This is not your responsibility.

All threads are organic to an extent and take on lives of their own. This discussion is now over 30 pages long, and a great deal of it has been directly relevant to the subject matter. But when different topics are brought up, it's a sign that perhaps the original subject matter has been exhausted in so far as participating posters are concerned. If you feel you have something to say that's germane to the original subject matter, go ahead and post it. You did this recently when the subject of caves was briefly debated again. And now it's gone on to other avenues of discussions, again.

You are not obligated to take part in this discussion, so if you do not like the course it is taking at any one time, feel free not to participate. As far as that goes, you never know how a divergent topic might reignite interest in the original subject matter.

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