69 replies to this topic

[The New Richard Nixon]

It seems Israel is worried now, I think they know now that they have done something wrong. Now they want to build more homes, I think they want Palestine to attack them again and show the UN how bad they are

[preacherman76]

Yesterday was the biggest biblicaly prophectic day in modern times. Its bigger then the rebirth of Israel its self. To my Christian brothers and sisters, get your house in order. Your redemption draws near. For those who might be on the fence, its time to choose.

[odas]

and then, on 30 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

It's obvious that the intent of this vote was primarily to save Abbas' political career and to try to box Israel in - it has nothing to do with making peace.  The Palestinians have decided that they can use world opinion to "acquire" their State without negotiating with the heavily armed people who currently control the land it will encompass.  They will be successful only in causing new violence ultimately.  Again, I point to the madness that seems to proliferate in the world concerning this issue.  Because Israel needs public opinion on their side to prosper in the land they are forced to play this game with the Palestinians - whom they could easily destroy if needed.  When the incentive of world opinion turns so thoroughly against them that it is no longer a restrainer, what do you suppose they will do?  
A:  Give in and pack their bags, leaving the land they have sworn to live or die on, or
B:  Soundly defeat their enemies who are sworn to kill them all?

AT, what negotiations? Also, the world does not consist only of USA and Israel. Do you mean that the opinion of the rest if the world does not count?
65 years ago the world accepted Israel as a state, now they recognize Palestine too. 65 years ago the world was not waiting for another failed negotiation, they are not willing to wait for another negotiation now.

[and then]

jugoso, on 30 November 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I dunno....maybe return to preexisting 1967 borders and share the water as you suggested in another thread!! What is obvious from the vote for me is that the majority of countries support the recognition of a Palestinian State. If your solution to the problem is the continued subjugation of the Palestinian people, my comment is that that is no solution.

That suggestion, in context, was to ask a question about what to do if the Palestinians STILL kept fighting for all the land.  The Palestinians could, today, draft a document that was reasonable - something along the lines of what I mentioned in that other thread - and Israel would be FORCED by world opinion AND Western pressure I suspect, to make peace by Spring.  If you are objective in your view of this situation you'll have to admit that I'm probably correct.  So WHY do they not end this conflict and have a State where they get most of what they want,  and Israel gives up most,  if not all settlements?  I'm not trying to be provocative and will not argue with you on this J.  It's a simple question.

[The New Richard Nixon]

and then, on 30 November 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

That suggestion, in context, was to ask a question about what to do if the Palestinians STILL kept fighting for all the land.  The Palestinians could, today, draft a document that was reasonable - something along the lines of what I mentioned in that other thread - and Israel would be FORCED by world opinion AND Western pressure I suspect, to make peace by Spring.  If you are objective in your view of this situation you'll have to admit that I'm probably correct.  So WHY do they not end this conflict and have a State where they get most of what they want,  and Israel gives up most,  if not all settlements?  I'm not trying to be provocative and will not argue with you on this J.  It's a simple question.

Whats the point having talks in which you have no say?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

preacherman76, on 30 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Yesterday was the biggest biblicaly prophectic day in modern times. Its bigger then the rebirth of Israel its self. To my Christian brothers and sisters, get your house in order. Your redemption draws near. For those who might be on the fence, its time to choose.

how so?

[and then]

The New Richard Nixon, on 30 November 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Whats the point having talks in which you have no say?

Nice try but it just doesn't wash.  IF Abbas and or Haniyah agreed to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish Homeland the details could be worked out with compromise from both sides.  If the Palestinians stopped shooting themselves in the foot with insistence on having it all, the world would force Israel into a solution because Israel wants peace and would give up the settlements for it.  
A question for you TNRN:  What was the land Arafat wanted to "liberate" in 1964 when he formed the Palestine Liberation Organization?  Gaza and the West Bank were seized after the 1967 war.

[with bells on]

preacherman76, on 30 November 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Yesterday was the biggest biblicaly prophectic day in modern times. Its bigger then the rebirth of Israel its self. To my Christian brothers and sisters, get your house in order. Your redemption draws near. For those who might be on the fence, its time to choose.

explain?

[MichaelW]

Coffey, on 30 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I don't get it, why is this allowed to be said? Surely this isn't correct.

Jew = Religion
Arab = Race

How is this allowed?! YET if you said one for Christians and one for African Americans.... It would be racist and politically incorrect.

Jews are an ethno-religious group. Believe it or not, there are people that are ethnically Jewish.

[and then]

odas, on 30 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

AT, what negotiations? Also, the world does not consist only of USA and Israel. Do you mean that the opinion of the rest if the world does not count?
65 years ago the world accepted Israel as a state, now they recognize Palestine too. 65 years ago the world was not waiting for another failed negotiation, they are not willing to wait for another negotiation now.

Precisely.  The last attempt to move the process forward was when Obama insisted that Israel impose a 10 month settlement freeze on Israel.  For about 9 months the Palestinians still refused to even come to the table to try to talk.  That is a matter of record.  Then, when Netanyahu bent to pressure from his constituents and removed the freeze, Palestinians refused to talk based on settlement construction.  In all the previous negotiations they never refused to talk over that issue.  The opinion of the rest of the world matters immensely.  But Israel, just like any other nation, has no duty to commit suicide just because other nations hate it.  The world had a chance to welcome 2 new nations into existence 65 years ago.  The TRUTH that is avoided, covered up or denied is that the Arab Palestinians and all their neighbors in the surrounding States REFUSED the idea of ever having a Jewish State in Palestine.  They have been fought to a stalemate and now realize that their last best hope is to use the frustration of the world community to grant them for free what they could never achieve with arms - a State where Israel currently exists and the removal of all Jews from the land.  I always ask the same question of everyone who condemns Israel in this conflict because I feel it is a very fair thing to know.  If Gaza and the West Bank are the reason for today's conflicts, what land was Arafat trying to "liberate" when he formed the PLO in 1964?  All I ask for is an honest answer and an admission of what the real issues are here.

[Coffey]

MichaelW, on 30 November 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Jews are an ethno-religious group. Believe it or not, there are people that are ethnically Jewish.

I know that, it why it proves that the extremists are worse than any other extremist as they actually believe they are a "superior race". Sound familiar?

[and then]

Coffey, on 30 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I don't get it, why is this allowed to be said? Surely this isn't correct.

Jew = Religion
Arab = Race

How is this allowed?! YET if you said one for Christians and one for African Americans.... It would be racist and politically incorrect.

Coffey I think you get too excited over what is really a minor point.  Over the centuries the term "Jew" has simply come to be recognized for both things in the English language.  It isn't intended to incite as much as instruct.  Technically speaking, "Jew" would be the name of descendants of the tribe of Judah only.  Today's Israel has representatives of all 12 tribes of Israel's descendants.  They have collectively just become referred to as Jews.  JUDAISM=RELIGION, JEW=DESCENDANT of Israel.  One need not be a descendant to be of the faith of Judaism.

[Black Red Devil]

Professor T, on 30 November 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

Nice to see New Zealand voted yes..

Sad to see Australia didn't have the dangly bits to vote either way..

I'm actually surprised that Australia didn't vote.  Both major parties in Oz (Labour and specially the Liberals) have their political heads so far up the US' rear end they usually let them decide on their behalf.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil, 01 December 2012 - 04:08 AM.

[Black Red Devil]

and then, on 30 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

It's obvious that the intent of this vote was primarily to save Abbas' political career and to try to box Israel in - it has nothing to do with making peace.  The Palestinians have decided that they can use world opinion to "acquire" their State without negotiating with the heavily armed people who currently control the land it will encompass.  They will be successful only in causing new violence ultimately.  Again, I point to the madness that seems to proliferate in the world concerning this issue.  Because Israel needs public opinion on their side to prosper in the land they are forced to play this game with the Palestinians - whom they could easily destroy if needed.  When the incentive of world opinion turns so thoroughly against them that it is no longer a restrainer, what do you suppose they will do?  
A:  Give in and pack their bags, leaving the land they have sworn to live or die on, or
B:  Soundly defeat their enemies who are sworn to kill them all?

Why does Israel need public opinion on their side? The bottom line is that the world has spoken. The US and Israel are the ones that need to adapt to the idea, not the other way around.

[B Jenkins]

and then, on 30 November 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

Coffey I think you get too excited over what is really a minor point.  Over the centuries the term "Jew" has simply come to be recognized for both things in the English language.  It isn't intended to incite as much as instruct.  Technically speaking, "Jew" would be the name of descendants of the tribe of Judah only.  Today's Israel has representatives of all 12 tribes of Israel's descendants.  They have collectively just become referred to as Jews.  JUDAISM=RELIGION, JEW=DESCENDANT of Israel.  One need not be a descendant to be of the faith of Judaism.

Baloney, any follower of Judaism (or descendent of a follower) no matter nationality or ethicity can be and usually is called a Jew.