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Obama Set to Use His Imperial Pen Again


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#31    and then

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:15 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 11 January 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

So basically, if the government says "high powered assault weapons are now illegal" you'll happily go to gaol?
I'm impressed by your dedication.
Ultimately this will be the separation point between the men and the boys - the truly free and the pretender.  What will you risk for the right?  Will one sacrifice for the freedom we have that is being stolen from us....  If enough will stand together on this then jail would be a hollow threat.  I can envision a grass roots internet driven campaign against gun seizures that could muddy the works for government enforcement in many ways.  It will never be an easy day for them on this issue.  THIS is where the stand will be made.

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#32    Drayno

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:23 AM

View PostYamato, on 11 January 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

My uncle told me how when he was in high school, he and his friends would bring guns to school and they would get them out and discuss them with teachers in the parking lot and they didn't get in trouble because it wasn't any trouble, and there weren't paranoid/panic attacks from the other students or other faculty.  Since it's the guns that have become so vilified in this new age of protectionism at all costs, they must be hidden away from view at all times unless someone is wearing the right colored uniform and collecting the right paycheck.   It was a simpler time back then I suppose.   There was nothing to hide and no reason to hide it, kids could discuss responsible gun safety and share a common hobby/interest with their teachers.

Your uncle seems to be a contemporary with my parents. Because they would smoke cigarettes with their teachers during lunch.

I agree completely, and your post brings up an excellent point.

What changed? What happened? If someone has a gun, people automatically think they are going to kill someone.

If I walk up to a Blockbuster with a shotgun with no intention of shooting it, people will still think I've come there to blow them away.

And they call gun owners the paranoid ones?

Edited by Eonwe, 11 January 2013 - 07:24 AM.

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#33    Yamato

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:35 AM

View PostEonwe, on 11 January 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Your uncle seems to be a contemporary with my parents. Because they would smoke cigarettes with their teachers during lunch.

I agree completely, and your post brings up an excellent point.

What changed? What happened? If someone has a gun, people automatically think they are going to kill someone.

If I walk up to a Blockbuster with a shotgun with no intention of shooting it, people will still think I've come there to blow them away.

And they call gun owners the paranoid ones?
Oh yeah they try to spin it that it's the gun owners who have the fear.  But the fear is the fear of guns.   That shotgun of yours is pure evil; you'd have people screaming in the streets.

What's changed with regards to this issue is a great question.   A lot has changed in our society in general surely, but I think that part of it might be that lives were lived more locally before the mass media culture we've become.   People didn't have 50,000 strangers on the internet they carried around in their pocket to talk to, so they looked for someone in person.   I find myself wondering if the internet is really making people smarter, or rather, tending to allow people to effortlessly drift into ways of thinking they were already programmed to think like (e.g. saturate us with the politics we prefer), and people might seem to limit themselves the opportunity to grow in mind and character.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#34    Drayno

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:51 AM

View PostYamato, on 11 January 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Oh yeah they try to spin it that it's the gun owners who have the fear.  But the fear is the fear of guns.   That shotgun of yours is pure evil; you'd have people screaming in the streets.

What's changed with regards to this issue is a great question.   A lot has changed in our society in general surely, but I think that part of it might be that lives were lived more locally before the mass media culture we've become.   People didn't have 50,000 strangers on the internet they carried around in their pocket to talk to, so they looked for someone in person.   I find myself wondering if the internet is really making people smarter, or rather, tending to allow people to effortlessly drift into ways of thinking they were already programmed to think like (e.g. saturate us with the politics we prefer), and people might seem to limit themselves the opportunity to grow in mind and character.

On websites such as tumblr, for example, you can meet many people with identical political views, religious views, people who are of the same fandom - or who have identical interests or general beliefs. The internet has definitely made the world smaller for sure. In a way it has made genuine interaction between people strained at best because most people communicate through technology instead of face to face.. So that does feed anxiety when people are so reliant on technology to communicate, when they're in a real social situation, they find it difficult to engage in conversation with someone.

The internet is a soulless entity. It is a tool at best. But in some ways it can limit us by always matching us with people similar to ourselves by interest, giving no real incentive for individuality. But then again, it can introduce us with people with opposing view points - such as some people versus me on this website. In the end, I rather engage in face to face discussion nine times out of ten. But I also rather have people different than me discussing things with me because that makes for a real and diverse conversation.

Some thing has changed in our society. While video games and media play a large part, I wouldn't put all of the blame on them.

Parenting also has much to do with children and their habits or introduction to violent topics.

Some parents will gauge how much violence a child can handle based on their age and maturity.

Some parents will just plain not care and be a friend to their child, not a parent.

"One leader, one people, signifies one master and millions of slaves." - Camus

#35    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:54 AM

View Postand then, on 11 January 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Ultimately this will be the separation point between the men and the boys - the truly free and the pretender.  What will you risk for the right?  Will one sacrifice for the freedom we have that is being stolen from us....  If enough will stand together on this then jail would be a hollow threat.  I can envision a grass roots internet driven campaign against gun seizures that could muddy the works for government enforcement in many ways.  It will never be an easy day for them on this issue.  THIS is where the stand will be made.
given I live in a country that has strict gun control, I can't really answer that.
Mind you, there are things I'd happy send my time at Her Majesty's Pleasure for, basic civil liberties and the like - it's just that I don't see owning a gun as a right, rather it's a responsibility to be taken on only if needed - if you have the need or desire to take on that responsibility more power to you. that said, there are enough weapons or weapon equivalents in my household to fight a minor skirmish, including a trio of high power hunting bows.

Edited by Wearer of Hats, 11 January 2013 - 07:56 AM.


#36    Tiggs

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostYamato, on 11 January 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

Those were questions, not opinions.

In your opinion.

Given the continual level of abuse you've thrown at me in our prior conversations, I have absolutely no intention of having a conversation with you on any subject, ever again.

Just so we're absolutely clear.


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#37    Corp

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

View PostEonwe, on 11 January 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Your uncle seems to be a contemporary with my parents. Because they would smoke cigarettes with their teachers during lunch.

I agree completely, and your post brings up an excellent point.

What changed? What happened? If someone has a gun, people automatically think they are going to kill someone.

If I walk up to a Blockbuster with a shotgun with no intention of shooting it, people will still think I've come there to blow them away.

And they call gun owners the paranoid ones?

Well that comes from some of the most vocal gun owners being paranoid. Screaming at the top of their lungs that no one is going to take their guns when no one is. And the reason why people would think you were going to kill someone with that shotgun is because people don't go shopping their their guns and isn't socially acceptable to do so. It's not a handbag after all. So when a person does something that is not in line with standard social behaviour those around them start to wonder what the heck they're doing. And given that the normal outcome of bringing a gun into a store is a robbery it is completely normal for customers to think you were up to no good. You'd get the same reaction if you walked in with an axe.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#38    Drayno

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

View PostCorp, on 11 January 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Well that comes from some of the most vocal gun owners being paranoid. Screaming at the top of their lungs that no one is going to take their guns when no one is. And the reason why people would think you were going to kill someone with that shotgun is because people don't go shopping their their guns and isn't socially acceptable to do so. It's not a handbag after all. So when a person does something that is not in line with standard social behaviour those around them start to wonder what the heck they're doing. And given that the normal outcome of bringing a gun into a store is a robbery it is completely normal for customers to think you were up to no good. You'd get the same reaction if you walked in with an axe.

It's sort of a rough analogy I made, but you're absolutely right.

"One leader, one people, signifies one master and millions of slaves." - Camus

#39    ranrod

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:20 PM

View PostTiggs, on 10 January 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:



I personally think that you'll see a similar issue with a ban on assault rifles, if that's enacted. If you're already at the stage that you believe you require one for your safety, then you're not going to want to give it up. With their availability at both borders, any outright ban will just increase criminal activity.

The gun genie is already out of the bottle. You'll never get it back in. The only thing you can do is make them essentially obsolete.

Supporting this with life experience.  I originally come from a place that requires a government background check for gun purchases that includes interviewing your neighbors and other members of your community.  In return, the illegal gun market is off the charts. If you buy a gun legally, you are more likely of ending up a victim of crime since your gun will be sought after by the black market crowd.  Gun violence is roughly 4 times per capita higher than the highest city in the US.


#40    CRYSiiSx2

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 03:05 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 10 January 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

"we" the peopl I presume, as the moment they take away the guns it's a short slope to not having any roghts at all.

Grammar... use it.

Edited by CRYSiiSx2, 13 January 2013 - 03:06 AM.

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#41    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

View PostCRYSiiSx2, on 13 January 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

Grammar... use it.
tolerance, get used to it :P
that was posted from my tablet computer (as opposed to my laptop like now) - still getting used to the new keyboard.


#42    Yamato

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:50 AM

View PostTiggs, on 11 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

In your opinion.

Given the continual level of abuse you've thrown at me in our prior conversations, I have absolutely no intention of having a conversation with you on any subject, ever again.

Just so we're absolutely clear.
I share the same sentiment.  If mutual forgiveness isn't possible here, I'll have to respect mutual avoidance as the only other alternative.   Peace out.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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