4705 replies to this topic

[TheMacGuffin]

747400, on 27 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

* Incidentally, what is the most popular Rational explanation for the Cash/Landrum affair? It's surely indisputable that there was solid evidence there. is it going to be Military Secret projects? (in this case, a remarkably un-secret one, though)?

i know this is all in bold, but I rather like it.

Not one that anybody would ever admit to, even when the case went to federal court.  Not even the military investigator who tried to help them was able to find out anything about it.

Of course, if all those helicopters really were sent out after a real UFO they might never have known what it was.

[booNyzarC]

747400, on 27 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

"But I know that the first sighting coincided with the burn-up in the atmosphere of an exceptionally bright meteor, and that the airmen who saw the flashing UFO between the pine trees were looking straight at the Orford Ness lighthouse".

Ah, so basically it relies on a string of coincidences, then.

In a sense, yes it does partially rely on a string of coincidences, but it is still even more than just that.  This case has become convoluted over the years, growing with each retelling, and with the introduction of memory regression therapy (i.e. brain butchery the likes of which endangers the accuracy of existing memories and risks the introduction of false memories).  Plus, Jim Penniston has produced what I believe to be completely fabricated evidence (some of the pages in his 'notebook' and the casts he supposedly took of the 'landing site').

747400, on 27 November 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Stil, it's a theory that's worth considering, but I do hope people won't get as angry as often seems to happen if I don't embrace it straight away but perhaps will give it the consideration that it deserves and put it with all the various other theories that have been put forward. This seems to be an interesting aspect of all these things; people are laughed at, sneered at and mocked for jumping to the conclusion that something must be an ET craft, but if someone comes up with a Rational explanation, then the people who wear the badge of Skepticism with pride will happily accept that with open arms. I do hope that the same stringent standards are applied to these rational theories as they are to the more exotic suggestions.

Who has gotten angry with you?

As for stringent standards, I don't find the explanations provided by Ian Ridpath to be exotic or far fetched in the least.  On the contrary, his accounting of events is consistent with the original reports filed and all verifiable facts that I've seen, whereas the fantastical versions touted by UFOlogy are not.

[psyche101]

synchronomy, on 27 November 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

It's a classic case Zoser.  The military really buried this one for a good reason...the ETH derails their agenda.

What agenda.

[booNyzarC]

TheMacGuffin, on 27 November 2012 - 11:15 PM, said:

Unless the lighthouse was up in the air and showing up on radar in various locations, what they saw was definitely not the lighthouse.


Many times that night, UFOs were seen in opposite directions from the infamous lighthouse.

I'm sure this seemed clever when you were writing it, as I'm sure the many others who have made similar tongue in cheek comments thought as well.  Unfortunately though it is nothing more than a strawman argument.  Nobody is claiming that the lighthouse was up in the air.  The establishment of the lighthouse as the primary culprit for much of the sighting is thanks to the original reports filed by the men who went out there.  Specifically Burroughs and Cabansag, who both identified that they had been chasing exactly that for an extended period and over a distance which they estimated to be 2 miles.

Of course, until they discovered the source, they didn't know what it was.  They thought possibly it was some kind of crashed aircraft, but who knows what else their imagination may have created for them if they had never ultimately identified the source?

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 26 November 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

The incredible account of the sphere was submitted by Doctor Francisco Padron Leon, who lived in the city of Guia. His report is the most voluminous of the entire investigation. His background was thoroughly investigated, and he was found to be an upstanding, sane professional, whose word was considered truthful.

Padron had been summoned to make a house call, and commissioned a cab to take him to the location; the town of Las Rosas. As they rode along, the doctor and cab driver were engaged in light conversation. Suddenly, the car lights pointed out a slightly luminous object in the shape of a sphere.

The object was either landed, or hovering just above the ground. The object was made of a totally transparent and crystalline-like material. The doctor and driver both observed stars through the sphere. The object was bluish in color, with a radius of about 100 feet. The lower part of the orb contained a platform of aluminum-like material with three consoles. At each side of the center there were two huge figures from eight to ten feet tall. They were dressed in red, and always faced each other.
The beings were humanoid in shape, with large heads covered with a type of helmet. The doctor, hardly believing his own eyes, asked for confirmation from his cab driver.

"Are you seeing what I am?" he asked.

The driver exclaimed, "My God! What is that?"

The cab was only a short distance from the patient's house, and upon arriving, the doctor observed a type of bluish smoke coming from a tube rising through the center of the object.


The doctor stated: "We were talking about hunting... as we entered the last part of the road, the car lights pointed at a slightly luminous sphere that was stationary and very close to the ground, although I can't say for sure if it was touching it.

It was made of a totally transparent and crystalline-like material, since it was possible to see through it the stars in the sky; it had an electric blue color but tenuous, without dazzling; it had a radius of about 30 m. [100 ft.], and in the lower third of the sphere you could see a platform of aluminum-like color as if made of metal, and three large consoles.

At each side of the center there were two huge figures of 2.50 to 3 m. [8.5 to 10 ft.] tall, but no taller than 3 m. [10 ft.], dressed entirely in red and facing each other in such a way that I always saw their profile."

"Then I observed that some kind of bluish smoke was coming out from a semi-transparent central tube in the sphere, covering the periphery of the sphere's interior without leaking outside at any moment.

Then the sphere began to grow and grow until it became huge like a 20-story house, but the platform and the crew remained the same size; it rose slowly and majestically and it seems I heard a very tenuous whistling."

The sphere grew to an enormous size as it began to ascend into the sky. The doctor ran into the house, and told the family about what he had seen. Running outside, they observed the orb, which was now extremely high in the sky. It reached an enormous speed, accelerating toward Tenerfie.

I thought the Doctor, the cab driver, and the unnamed witness (relative of patient the doctor was visiting) were considered by authorities at the time to be telling a tall tale? The provided link support this?

Quote

There were several other sightings of a similar nature throughout the year of 1976 on the Island. The final "official" report was ambiguous at best.
The observance of the craft by all who saw it was accepted as genuine, although no "earthly" explanation was offered for its unique look and behavior.
On the other hand, although the witnesses of the smaller orb with aliens were classified as totally reliable, the actual presence of the beings was questioned. In other words, the witnesses were telling the truth, but what they saw was too far fetched to believe.

Although your best mate has an explanation which outlines some interesting time captures.


LINK

Quote

Mystery solved! The five most important cases in the UFO history of the Canary Islands actually were ballistic missiles launched from US Navy submarines, under the North Atlantic waters. Ricardo Campo, Press Office director of Anomaly Foundation (http://www.anomalia.org) informed the newswire agency EFE that they had contacted through the notorious ufologist Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos with several of the most prominent space experts in rockets and missiles. One of the scientists consulted was Jonathan McDowell, one of the main world authorities in the field, Ph. D. in Astrophysics by the University of Cambridge (Harvard-Smithsocian Center for Astrophysics). McDowell has been able to correlate dates and times of those five multitudinous sightings of luminous phenomena over the canarian skies with declassified records of the US Navy about intercontinental ballistic missile launchings. The data obtained identified their launching platforms (submarines), type of missile (Poseidon in every case) and time of launching. Other scientist consulted by Mr. Ballester Olmos in behalf of the Anomaly Foundation, an Spanish organization dedicated to the UFO study upon rigorous standards, was James Oberg, graduated summa cum laude in mathematics and specialist in orbital maneuvering system rockets. Oberg explained that the launches were made from the Eastern US Test Range, a big area covering from Cape Canaveral to Ascension Island. Unfortunately, the exact position of the submarines involved is still classified.
The UFO incidents so explained are the following:

• November 22nd, 1974.- A red light was seen climbing very quickly, then created a circular halo. This phenomenon recurred three times.
  
• June 22nd, 1976.- From the horizon a point of light was climbing, developing until it became a big brilliant semicircular halo. A foreign tourist was able to take a photo of the phenomenon.
  
• November 19th, 1976.- A point of light began to climb in a spiral, developing and expanding up to a gigantic diameter.
  
• March 24th, 1977.- A reddish light seemed to emerge from the sea, and was seem climbing very fast, revolting and leaving behind a big halo which lasted ten minutes.
  
• March 5th, 1979.- The most spectacular one. Multicoloured concentric rings were seen at the horizon. From them a point of light moved out leaving a luminous jet that began to expand developing a huge bright dome. Tens of photos were obtained that were mistakenly considered as UFOs by the most sensationalist Spanish ufologists.

These luminous phenomena were observed by thousands of astonished witnesses in the Canary Islands, and were also investigated by the Spanish Air Force. Even though the military inquiry was not very profound, the opinion of the Canary Islands Air Command suggested the possibility of missiles. Unfortunately, the low interest of the Spanish Ministry of Defence regarding UFOs, prevented to confirm such hypothesis then. 20 years later, the Anomaly Foundation, has been finally able to reach the bottom of the question.

Edited by psyche101, 28 November 2012 - 12:52 AM.

[psyche101]

TheMacGuffin, on 27 November 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

Not one that anybody would ever admit to, even when the case went to federal court.  Not even the military investigator who tried to help them was able to find out anything about it.

Of course, if all those helicopters really were sent out after a real UFO they might never have known what it was.

Reeks of liability to me. That UFO, I would say saved the Government face, and a tidy sum I imagine.

[synchronomy]

psyche101, on 28 November 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

What agenda.

One main purpose of the Air Force (any) is to protect the sovereigny of airspace.  If things are reported to be buzzing through airspace, whether unidentified or unexplained, and the Air Force cannot do anything about it, it's in their best interest to "come up" with a damn good story, such as the legendary "swamp gas" or "weather balloon", and if they can't they "bury it" by discrediting the reports or just slamming a top secret label on it.  If they don't, they appear to be incompetent.
Their word is final and we, and the government in many instances have to live with it.

[TheMacGuffin]

psyche101, on 28 November 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

Although your best mate has an explanation which outlines some interesting time captures.

I know he did.  He always has an "explanation" like that, doesn't he?  He can make just about anything sound plausible enough, except that they were never able to identify any submarines.  LOL

[TheMacGuffin]

psyche101, on 28 November 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

Reeks of liability to me. That UFO, I would say saved the Government face, and a tidy sum I imagine.

I doubt that anyone is ever going to know.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 28 November 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

I'm sure this seemed clever when you were writing it, as I'm sure the many others who have made similar tongue in cheek comments thought as well.  Unfortunately though it is nothing more than a strawman argument.  Nobody is claiming that the lighthouse was up in the air.  The establishment of the lighthouse as the primary culprit for much of the sighting is thanks to the original reports filed by the men who went out there.  Specifically Burroughs and Cabansag, who both identified that they had been chasing exactly that for an extended period and over a distance which they estimated to be 2 miles.

Of course, until they discovered the source, they didn't know what it was.  They thought possibly it was some kind of crashed aircraft, but who knows what else their imagination may have created for them if they had never ultimately identified the source?

I think I mentioned before that there's more to this case than most people know.  It wasn't just one UFO and it wasn't only at Rendlesham.

The lighthouse is just a very hasty cover story that doesn't account for anything.  It's just good enough for government work and those who are incurious enough to go along with any kind of "explanation" that sounds plausible.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 28 November 2012 - 06:35 AM.

[TheMacGuffin]

booNyzarC, on 28 November 2012 - 12:34 AM, said:

In a sense, yes it does partially rely on a string of coincidences, but it is still even more than just that.  This case has become convoluted over the years, growing with

As for stringent standards, I don't find the explanations provided by Ian Ridpath to be exotic or far fetched in the least.  On the contrary, his accounting of events is consistent with the original reports filed and all verifiable facts that I've seen, whereas the fantastical versions touted by UFOlogy are not.

I doubt that he has ever had all the "facts", although he make think he has.  I heard about this one long before it became a big, famous public case in "Ufology".

[TheMacGuffin]

Yes, someone wrote an article in Spanish saying the UFO was a missile, but it seems that they were talking to some Russian colonel about UFO sightings in 1979.  I don't even think he has his dates right.







http://www.ikaros.org.es/misiles.htm

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 28 November 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[TheMacGuffin]

Tell Oberg that I know some Russian colonels, too, and they told me different things about UFOs.

[psyche101]

synchronomy, on 28 November 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

One main purpose of the Air Force (any) is to protect the sovereigny of airspace.  If things are reported to be buzzing through airspace, whether unidentified or unexplained, and the Air Force cannot do anything about it, it's in their best interest to "come up" with a damn good story, such as the legendary "swamp gas" or "weather balloon", and if they can't they "bury it" by discrediting the reports or just slamming a top secret label on it.  If they don't, they appear to be incompetent.
Their word is final and we, and the government in many instances have to live with it.

Thanks, but still not understanding what the "agenda" is. I think that is an old line that has been pushed around the block one too many times, and I mean no disrespect to you in that. These things have been reported and confirmed for over 60 years, so this is not a threat, nobody has demanded arial rights to UFO's so sovereignty is not challenged, it seems to me that science is the authority here. Tesla seemed to think we can draw free energy from the air, and transmit it wirelessly. In fact he demonstrated so much. This seems to be the most likely usage, and in that case territorial mattered are superfluous. Nobody tells an arial plasma where to go or how to form. It strikes me that taking on the responsibility of "stopping a UFO" is akin to stopping a bolt of lighting? That takes it out of the military hands, unless a threat is perceived. It's more the bag of Meteorology and astrophysics from what I can tell, and these are the guys making the headway.

I must say, they do seem to be doing a far superior job as opposed to the military silliness of the 50's. Some of the claims I read make me think Gomer Pyle was a real recruit. I am stunned that the CIA maintains funding. From what I have read, that organisation seems to be the biggest waste of funding in military history. These days, we actually get some answers.

Mate, I gotta say, I remain unconvinced about some global Governmental conspiracy, when you and I discussed it, you came up with some ideas, and I appreciate that, but I felt the ideas left pretty much all of my questions unanswered. The US has no jurisdiction outside of US soil. Global conspiracy do not work. It contravenes what we see when Governments work together today.

The term Swamp Gas came from Hynek too, not the military. And his usage was valid. It did show him though that the public, who largely rely on the media, want a media type headline. Not the boring old prosaic. Big lesson for J Allen that day. With 6 billion people around, and many very conversant with modern technology, we see less UFO's and the tales are toned down. No more Venusians and Martians these days. Co-incidence?

[TheMacGuffin]

If you can read Spanish, the official report is here, dated November 19, 1976.  Whatever this thing was, it hung arounf far too long to be a "missile" anyway.

http://www.planetabe...arias191176.htm

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 28 November 2012 - 07:03 AM.