75 replies to this topic

[pantodragon]

Frank Merton, on 02 March 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Of course we have to pay for the internet.  First we have to buy a computer or other device.  Then we have to pay for the connection.  We also have to put up with advertisements (a sort of cost) and buy much of the software we use......................................................, but hardly free for business uses like e-phone services are great and a huge advance over what we use to have to put up with.  I also like listening to my favorite music stations, generally PBS in the States.

You can use the internet in your local library.  The last time I used WiiFi in a local cafe it was free.  In countries like India it is, I believe, government policy to take the internet to villages where they can't afford it for themselves.  At school, children and adults have free access.  I heard recently that the UK government is considering making the internet available to all its citizens since it is becoming impossible to live without it.  Of course, all this "free" is illusory.  One has to pay taxes and so on. There is loads of "free" stuff on the internet: games, films, assorted software, forums, blogs, numerous free website builders, encyclopaedias, books etc, etc..

[pantodragon]

ExpandMyMind, on 02 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

I'm definitely not saying I agree with the original poster, but I do think he is confusing the 'internet' (or a connection to the internet at least) and the 'World Wide Web'.

Technically you are correct, but I do think that the terms are not distinct in common usage.  In fact, I do not think that ordianry people talk of the WWW.  Therefore, I am using "the internet" in the loose way that is commonly understood by ordinary people.

[Paranoid Android]

pantodragon, on 04 March 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

You can use the internet in your local library.  The last time I used WiiFi in a local cafe it was free.  In countries like India it is, I believe, government policy to take the internet to villages where they can't afford it for themselves.  At school, children and adults have free access.  I heard recently that the UK government is considering making the internet available to all its citizens since it is becoming impossible to live without it.  Of course, all this "free" is illusory.  One has to pay taxes and so on. There is loads of "free" stuff on the internet: games, films, assorted software, forums, blogs, numerous free website builders, encyclopaedias, books etc, etc..

So your hypothesis is that "free internet" will only be available in your local cafe (which incidentally is paid for by the owner of that cafe, who gets their money back via other services, eg coffee)..... or in places like India, in which case your Opening Post must become very important when those who are from India start getting charged for their emails to Internet Service Providers......

.... Ummmm, scratch that last, actually.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 04 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[pantodragon]

Timonthy, on 04 March 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Still plenty of free-call numbers in Australia mate. You're getting ripped!

When I was in Europe I had a 24 hour free international number I could ring from even my mobile, to approve purchases over a set amount on my credit card. That ain't bad.

And the disclosure statements and privacy statements are all there to protect consumers...

Edit: Forgot a word :/

My point was the freebies are the bait they use to reel you in.  If you have a freebie now (which, of course, isn't actually free -- you ARE paying for it somewhere) you can bet that somewhere along the line, when they've got you hooked or when they've cut off all the alternatives, they'll suddenly start charging --- that's business.  Lie and cheat and steal from the customer.  Just don't let him know you're doing it.  People used to know this, but business has done such a successful white-washing of its image (donating to charities (actually the customer is donating to charities), being classed as ethical, or environmentally friendly etc) that people have forgotten this truth.

[pantodragon]

To all:  None of you have actually addressed the point I was making.  You have all gone off --- I am tempted to think you're trying to shoot me down rather than enter into any sort of debate or discussion --- so you are looking for "angles".  The other possibility is that you just don't understand enough.

[ExpandMyMind]

Your theory doesn't really pan out. With the internet (and the Web), prices are actually being brought down across the board, for a variety of reasons. You are talking about the 'internet' as though it is some sort of conspiracy, where all the creators and developers are in on a plan to squeeze money from the masses. Actually, no offence, but from your posts, it's clear that you have no actual grasp on what the internet (or the Web) is.

I would start on Wikipedia articles regarding the internet and the Web, then have a look at http://www.w3.org/ and the relevant section of http://www.ieee.org/index.html

Otherwise, your postings are nothing more than trolling.

[Frank Merton]

Trolling is deliberately taking an irritating position just to be irritating.  He does irritate me, but I don't think he's doing it deliberately.

We are all hooked on the internet; even those who don't use it.  Modern commerce and banking and all sorts of things now depend on it.  Can you imagine doing business without email?  So he has his point.  The trouble is that there is no scheme here to hook us and then reel us in.  The opposite in fact.  The more we use it the cheaper it gets, if for no reason other than economies of scale.

[Paranoid Android]

pantodragon, on 04 March 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

To all:  None of you have actually addressed the point I was making.  You have all gone off --- I am tempted to think you're trying to shoot me down rather than enter into any sort of debate or discussion --- so you are looking for "angles".  The other possibility is that you just don't understand enough.

What point are you making? You spoke of a free internet, but the internet isn't free, we pay for it through monthly subscription, or buy a pre paid card. Even the free wifi spots are paid for by the company who owns the connection (the cafe owner who wants you there buying coffee and lunch, for example).

Since we're already paying, are you saying they're going to start charging us more (perhaps a service fee for accessing an email account)? Won't happen. The public outrage of paying to access after we're already paying to access will destroy any goodwill the company has.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 05 March 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Frank Merton]

The main reason it won't happen is because anyone trying to charge a fee would lose all their customers to competitors overnight.  The incremental cost of providing the service is not great enough to prevent this, even if all existing providers got together on a fee, new providers would appear.

[Render]

pantodragon, on 04 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

You need to read my post more carefully - you have obviously misunderstood it.

Hilarious how you're ranting on like you've discovered electricity.
You think you're smart because you've revealed the purpose of taxes?

Lol, so what ... all you're life you've been walking around thinking roads just appear without expense for your comfort? Policemen and women are just a friendly bunch out there to protect you; free of charge.

If you're gonna come here pretending to be a genious at least bring something interesting to talk about.
Or carry on wasting your life away thinking you're doing something useful by stating the obvious; because you simply cannot think on a higher level.

[Paranoid Android]

Frank Merton, on 05 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

The main reason it won't happen is because anyone trying to charge a fee would lose all their customers to competitors overnight.  The incremental cost of providing the service is not great enough to prevent this, even if all existing providers got together on a fee, new providers would appear.

Absolutely. Hotmail, Google, Yahoo, etc, provide free email because of three advertising revenue their brand provides. Start charging, everyone leaves, and then the sponsors and advertisers go away and find a new product that the masses use. All it would need is one person to outlay the money to start their own free email service, and the sponsors and advertisers will get on board when the crowds come. No current email company would commit suicide like that.

[Timonthy]

pantodragon, on 04 March 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

My point was the freebies are the bait they use to reel you in.  If you have a freebie now (which, of course, isn't actually free -- you ARE paying for it somewhere) you can bet that somewhere along the line, when they've got you hooked or when they've cut off all the alternatives, they'll suddenly start charging --- that's business.  Lie and cheat and steal from the customer.  Just don't let him know you're doing it.  People used to know this, but business has done such a successful white-washing of its image (donating to charities (actually the customer is donating to charities), being classed as ethical, or environmentally friendly etc) that people have forgotten this truth.

You are a customer. You are using a product. You can expect to be charged for it. And yes businesses make money by charging more than most products are actually worth.

I want the product, I'm happy to pay for it. The world keeps spinning...

Edit: If you try to get everything for free then you're the one being roped in. Yes they use freebies etc. to make things more enticing, but most people realise there will be costs involved too.

Edited by Timonthy, 05 March 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[The New Richard Nixon]

I remmeber back in the early 2000's there was a rumour going round that you had to pay £5 a month to use Hotmail, also another one was for youtube not too long ago.

[Frank Merton]

The New Richard Nixon, on 05 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

I remmeber back in the early 2000's there was a rumour going round that you had to pay £5 a month to use Hotmail, also another one was for youtube not too long ago.

To be sure these companies would do this sort of thing, sometimes to their own detriment.  The only reason we have to pay for much of the software we use is that free versions haven't yet taken hold.  Microsoft in particular seems to think that being free is something of an insult to them.

[pantodragon]

ExpandMyMind, on 04 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

You are talking about the 'internet' as though it is some sort of conspiracy, where all the creators and developers are in on a plan to squeeze money from the masses. Actually, no offence, but from your posts, it's clear that you have no actual grasp on what the internet (or the Web) is.

Don’t be ridiculous, they are not that sophisticated.  The internet reflects the minds of its creators and developers, which makes their minds, unimpressive to say the least.  Their ill intentions are writ plain on their dirty faces and anyone who can’t see that had do better not to admit it, for it is tantamount to admitting to one’s own somewhat severe limitations.