Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Jodi Arias Trial


  • Please log in to reply
836 replies to this topic

#496    Leftcoastgal

Leftcoastgal

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined:04 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:US ~ Left Coast

  • "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" H.S. Thompson
    Avatar: The Comet Kid by Bob Sacha

Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:43 AM

View Postregi, on 19 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

The Anthony jury didn't have a single question for any witness? No way!

It appears it must be that it's at the judge's discretion of whether or not questions are allowed.

In those 3 states, incl. FL, it's required by law though.  The other 5 states are at the judges discretion to allow or deny them.  The judge must have addressed it another way in Anthony case, outside the eyes/ears of televised audience. The lawyers & judge still review each question as to it's appropriate value to the case as well as being within the letter of the law RE exactly what witnesses may be asked at all. It had to have been addressed in some fashion.

Let me do some searching for anything that might have superseded this law between time of passage & implementation in FL and the Anthony trial.  I'm sure there's a window of time between these two events.  I'll see what I can find online about it.

I'm wondering more and more about the camera & case and it's role.  Introducing the camera during his shower was either a ruse to get him in this vulnerable position, or he was under threat, with the gun on him.  Everything on that camera card had to be destroyed or the sneaking into Arizona was for nothing.  Her taking the pictures was pure fiction, they were never meant to see the light of day and she knew this.  I'm trying to work up an idea on her surprising him in there, as if she had left. and returned as you suggested.

So the sleuth in me continues to try and work out these parts that we will never know for certain.  This case has everything including the bathroom sink in it.  Let's not look in the kitchen!


#497    Jinxdom

Jinxdom

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 720 posts
  • Joined:06 Sep 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:East Coast

  • Education...has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading.
    -- G.M. Trevelyan

Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:26 AM

Quote

There's very interesting analysis/opinion re: the testimony of the defense expert at the following link.

http://kristinarandl...ory/jodi-arias/

I actually thought the same way about it being until I looked at the whole picture objectively and took everything in context that I could(Which is why I wouldn't mind her journal). Her behavior isn't all that shocking or telling, it is when you get to the reasons behind it all that it gets disturbing.

I don't actually think her intruder stories were faked but a delusion. Please bear with me because that her stories would of gotten her off, nor does it excuse her of any of her actions......

Remembering events from a 3rd person perspective and projecting the negative on to something that isn't real, isn't all that uncommon(There is a whole slew of other possibilities as well). Meaning that she was protecting herself from the fact that she was actually the assailant and that Travis had to actually try to protect himself from her. Her ninjas were basically a delusion of those two things that she didn't want to admit to herself. Basically a recovery from a dissociative state(amnesia -if you are a expert who really shouldn't be considered an expert). Yes people can get PTSD like symptoms from dissociative delusions, which is why she is quite dangerous when put in to stressful situations and relationships. This all fits with how she reacts to other people and why she clung to that Laws of Attraction book so much because it helps reenforce her ideal world where nothing is actually wrong.

There is a fine line between a lie and the truth as somebody sees it. The rest of the lies(and the clean up) you could expect from anybody when facing the fact that if they get caught they could get die. She is more reactive then instrumental when it comes to violence. Which is why I couldn't point to APB nor psychopathy(This is more of Casey Anthony, Though I won't hesitate to call Jodi, a "non-clinical" psycho).

Edited by Jinxdom, 20 March 2013 - 04:28 AM.


#498    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,156 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:31 AM

When she  brought the camera into the bathroom as was said when Travis thought Jodi had lelf to surpise and killed him, would she also have brought the gun and the knife with her to?  Her story after he body slam her after getting out of the shower, she ran down the hall around  into the closet, climb up the shelf got the gun, came out of the other end of the closet back into the batroom  and shot him after he tried to tackle her, but then she had to run get the knife and stabbed him 27 times and cut his thoart at the end of the hall, run get the blanket to dragged his body back into the bathroom.According to the time line in the photos from the time travis was alive to that photo of him dead back in the bathroon with his neck already cut took 62 seconds seems impossiabe.So she must have brought the gun and the knife with her into the bathroom. It still a puzzle to me why would she stabbed him so violenty to end his life,if she had only planned to shoot him. Did the gun jammed or was there only one bullet in the gun or what? What really happen?


#499    spayneuter

spayneuter

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 132 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Washington State

  • Live Long And Prosper.
    Please spay and neuter.

Posted 20 March 2013 - 05:59 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 19 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Anyone see the mock trial on HLN? I missed it but I got bits and ends of the show today,  They even had a whole set up of the crime scene and Jose Baez Cayce Anthony`s lawyer was on the show, who had said in the clean up the bullet may have got swept away where it was.Well anyhow Ten out Twelve people found her not gulity of frist degree, so evidenty people are believing her self defence story.

Wow.  Not guilty?  Really?  What part of the premeditated evidence did they not understand?  I think it's time for professional juries.

What a man dwells on, he becomes.

#500    spayneuter

spayneuter

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 132 posts
  • Joined:26 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Washington State

  • Live Long And Prosper.
    Please spay and neuter.

Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:03 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 19 March 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

I was curious enough about this to have researched it.  In the event anyone else is interested, there are 8 states that allow jury questions and 3 that require the judge to inquire into them..  Those 3 are AZ,  FL and KY.  It's a controversial practice in legal circles apparently,  points made pro and con.  Trivial Pursuit anyone?  :tu:

http://courts.uslega...sses-by-jurors/

I like that the jury can ask questions.  What do the rest of you think?"  Why would it be a bad idea?

What a man dwells on, he becomes.

#501    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,156 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:32 AM

View Postspayneuter, on 20 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Wow.  Not guilty?  Really?  What part of the premeditated evidence did they not understand?  I think it's time for professional juries.

I`d have to admit her account of what happen can be believiable,its going to be a tough one for the jury to decide.


#502    Leftcoastgal

Leftcoastgal

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined:04 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:US ~ Left Coast

  • "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" H.S. Thompson
    Avatar: The Comet Kid by Bob Sacha

Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:36 AM

View Postregi, on 19 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

The Anthony jury didn't have a single question for any witness? No way!  It appears it must be that it's at the judge's discretion of whether or not questions are allowed.

Hi regi - I did a little footwork and found out that in the end, it's absolutely true, you;re right, there were no questions from the jury in the Anthony trial.  Here's why according to an excerpt from the National Law Journal (online resource) .

"Now, Florida judges are required to allow jurors to ask questions as part of new, controversial rules that took effect Jan. 1. The change was a long time coming.The rules were first passed by the Florida Legislature in 1999 as a byproduct of a truce between Republicans bent on tort reform and Democrats.  A 22-person Jury Innovations Committee was assigned to review every aspect of the state’s jury system and come up with recommendations for change. But the new rules laid dormant until approved by the Florida Supreme Court last October. (2012) ~ "

From the NY Post:  (given recent interest in jurors allowed to present questions in this trial, which has so much attention)

"In fact, the infamous Casey Anthony trial may have resulted in a different verdict had that judge, Belvin Perry Jr., decided to allow juror questions. However, Judge Perry Jr. apparently did not give that instruction, so the jurors were not aware they could ask questions. Two jurors later said that they wished the outcome had been different, but that prosecutors left key questions unanswered. Written by PETER DeFILIPPIS – NY Post - Posted: 10:16 PM, March 16, 2013

Mystery solved.  One down, how many to go... can we count that high?  :no:


#503    Leftcoastgal

Leftcoastgal

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined:04 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:US ~ Left Coast

  • "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" H.S. Thompson
    Avatar: The Comet Kid by Bob Sacha

Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:38 AM

View Postspayneuter, on 20 March 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

I like that the jury can ask questions.  What do the rest of you think?"  Why would it be a bad idea?

It's a mixed bag, pro & con.  In any case, there's obviously a need for jurors to remain neutral and not get overly involved, or even feel as if their role extends to that of someone tied to the justice system, the courts, as if employed by it.

Here you go, read about on any one of these sites:  (a hot topic online lately)


#504    Leftcoastgal

Leftcoastgal

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined:04 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:US ~ Left Coast

  • "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" H.S. Thompson
    Avatar: The Comet Kid by Bob Sacha

Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:12 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 20 March 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

Did the gun jammed or was there only one bullet in the gun or what? What really happen?

Hi docyabut2 - have you noticed how many of the pundits on tv are resisting the idea that the gun shot came last?  I listened carefully to the ME's testimony, twice, and he was firm on that detail.  However, he also was firm that the brain had liquified by the time the autopsy was performed and far less information was gained, as in proof,  as a result of this fact.  He stated that the damage in the brain, along the bullets trajectory was not sufficient enough to suggest he took that wound early on before he did so much bleeding.  Not enough blood & hemorrhaging where the bullet stopped either.  He was firm it would have been visible on his cheek where bullet stopped under the skin.

And here I've been working hard on accepting that it came last, as a final insurance that he was indeed dead.  This takes me on a path of her sneaking into bathroom, camera and knife in hand. Oh this case is dizzying.

Edited by Leftcoastgal, 21 March 2013 - 04:13 AM.


#505    docyabut2

docyabut2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 3,156 posts
  • Joined:12 Aug 2011

Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 21 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Hi docyabut2 - have you noticed how many of the pundits on tv are resisting the idea that the gun shot came last?  I listened carefully to the ME's testimony, twice, and he was firm on that detail.  However, he also was firm that the brain had liquified by the time the autopsy was performed and far less information was gained, as in proof,  as a result of this fact.  He stated that the damage in the brain, along the bullets trajectory was not sufficient enough to suggest he took that wound early on before he did so much bleeding.  Not enough blood & hemorrhaging where the bullet stopped either.  He was firm it would have been visible on his cheek where bullet stopped under the skin.

And here I've been working hard on accepting that it came last, as a final insurance that he was indeed dead.  This takes me on a path of her sneaking into bathroom, camera and knife in hand. Oh this case is dizzying.

However Dr Terry said if soon after the gun shot to head his heart or neck was cut, there might not be a whole lof of blood  flowing up to the head to allow more bleeding to those soft tissues.


#506    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 10,383 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:42 PM

The bullet came last, as I surmised from the beginning.   So the forensic evidence now confers with my theory?

She's still not proven guilty yet?  I'm shocked.

What jurors and armchair generals need to understand is that self-defense and a murder involving 27 stab wounds are not entirely mutually exclusive.  Self-defense and murderous rage are not mutually exclusive.  It's analogous to someone having the nerve to punch me, so I beat the snot out of them for their "mistake".  That's self defense, it doesn't matter how bad I beat them down.   I will continue the close combat until I'm positive I have my opponent subdued and his attack has been put to an end.  In theory, this could even mean killing him.   What is the Guilt Squad going to say?   That he had too many bruises, so it couldn't have been self defense.   :whistle:

If I'm to believe this little girl, who would have trouble carrying a backpack of college textbooks from the looks of her, killed that man single-handedly without even cutting herself in the process, she would have had to be in a rage with the adrenaline on full.  What could have provoked such intensity after she was obviously already in his apartment for hours calmly lying around naked and taking pictures?   Travis Alexander physically attacking her. If she was already angry with him and she found herself being physically assaulted as well, the simulated rapes that got Travis's twig out, or whatever other physical dominance he exerted over her, suddenly weren't so welcome anymore.  And he paid a terrible price for his "mistake".   The prosecution might get murder, but it wouldn't get it in the first degree with me on the jury, nor would it get the death penalty thus it might not get a guilty verdict period.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#507    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,126 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 21 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Hi docyabut2 - have you noticed how many of the pundits on tv are resisting the idea that the gun shot came last?  I listened carefully to the ME's testimony, twice, and he was firm on that detail.  However, he also was firm that the brain had liquified by the time the autopsy was performed and far less information was gained, as in proof,  as a result of this fact.  He stated that the damage in the brain, along the bullets trajectory was not sufficient enough to suggest he took that wound early on before he did so much bleeding.  Not enough blood & hemorrhaging where the bullet stopped either.  He was firm it would have been visible on his cheek where bullet stopped under the skin.

And here I've been working hard on accepting that it came last, as a final insurance that he was indeed dead.  This takes me on a path of her sneaking into bathroom, camera and knife in hand. Oh this case is dizzying.

Yes, the fact is, the ME couldn't say conclusively when the gunshot occurred.
It's been my personal observation (where I've seen a laceration to the neck when there are also other knife wounds) that that neck wound is the last inflicted. I think it's very clear that it came after the other knife wounds.

I think it should not be overlooked that when a perp is armed with a weapon, they're already at an advantage over their victim. Add to that the element of surprise, and then they have a huge advantage; a child can fire a gun, and I've seen cases where 'little wives' have killed their 'big' husbands with ONE knife wound to the chest!

Arias has fit her story to what she knows of the evidence. Nothing's new under the sun.
Basically, I look at it this way: whatever Arias says, then what's opposite of that must be the truth. :lol:

I've never believed the rope story. It's of no consequence to me, but it's my impression that that story could have been to explain the presence of the knife upstairs.
I know there was rope collected from the scene- small pieces- I've seen one photo of one piece on the stairs which is rough and twine-like in appearance- but I question if the rope cutting incident- if it ever occurred at all, didn't occur at some time previous.
I think it's of curiosity that although there are very explicit photos of their activity, there are none which featured rope.


#508    Leftcoastgal

Leftcoastgal

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 104 posts
  • Joined:04 Feb 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:US ~ Left Coast

  • "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" H.S. Thompson
    Avatar: The Comet Kid by Bob Sacha

Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 21 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

However Dr Terry said if soon after the gun shot to head his heart or neck was cut, there might not be a whole lof of blood  flowing up to the head to allow more bleeding to those soft tissues.

Hi there... you're right,  that was among the points ME made about the wound, tracing it's path through the brain, that blood loss prior to the GSW affected the blood flow, including the lack of hemorrhaging to the face where the bullet stopped. He began discussing brain wound by stating the brain had begun to liquify as part of what would be considered normal decomposition.  He took slices of brain for testing but they were extremely poor in quality. Where his professional experience was needed to answer a question because physical evidence was poor in quality, he was very clear about it.  The ME report doesn't touch upon things like what sequence the wounds were delivered to a victim.  Just facts on the remains.

(PS - I'm not sure who Dr. Terry is, did I miss a witness somewhere?)

Edited by Leftcoastgal, 21 March 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#509    regi

regi

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,126 posts
  • Joined:28 May 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Texas

Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostJinxdom, on 20 March 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

She is more reactive then instrumental when it comes to violence.

There can be both, and I think that's what the evidence shows; first instrumental, then reactive.


#510    Aaronsmom

Aaronsmom

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Joined:11 May 2011
  • Gender:Female

Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:52 PM

I have noticed there are two, equally adamant camps on the question of which came first, the gun shot or the stabbing? I'm not sure why the answer is so important. Either way, the notion of self-defense dries up PDQ if someone says she had to protect herself by both shooting an alleged attacker in the head as well as stabbing him almost 30 times IN THE BACK and slit his throat to boot. If she shot him in the head first, I don't see why he posed a threat to her anymore, so the savage stabbing and throat-slitting would hardly be necessary. If she stabbed him first, how is it self-defense if he's stabbed multiple times in the back?? If the guy's back is to her, how is he a threat? Why not just run the other way? Why slit his throat? Why shoot him in the head after hacking him up so good?

Regardless of which order things occurred in, this exceeds self-defense in even the most liberal sense of the word. Am I wrong?







1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users