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United States draft


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#1    lightbeyondthedark

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:51 PM

I saw a debate on TV last night and they were talking about alot of different issues... But then the issue of a draft came up...
To make a long story short, they said a draft wouldn't happen unless the United States went to war with another country...
First thing that popped into my head was "Great! Here we come Iran..."
Personally I am against the war in Iraq, well kinda... I think now that we started something we need to see it through until the end... But it still does piss me off a to hear about people dying everyday over there... It doesn't really matter who they are... Whether they are American troops, or British troops, or Iraqi people... People die over there everyday, and it just needs to end...
Basically I started this topic to hear what others thought about a potential draft, and the possibility of war with another country...

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#2    warden

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:00 PM

I am not american so i could not comment on the draft issue

On going to war definetly not,as you said we must finish the job in Iraq and not let it become another Afganistan

I do think in my country SCOTLAND we need National Service brought in ,i think it would sort alot of the problems out that we are having at the moment


#3    Mekorig

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 12:56 AM

I speak from experience, because my countr had the Draf system for a lot of years, and didnt work. You only got kids how didnt want to go to a war, and are badly trained (its dificult to train someone how is thinking in going out everyday). Whit volunter soldiers you didnt have that problem because they are, well, volunter. If Bush put the draft, the only thing he will get will be hordes of poorly trained guys how didnt want to combat.

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#4    lightbeyondthedark

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:01 AM

Yeah I am really not down with a draft right now... I really dont know what I would do...  no.gif

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#5    HolyDevil2053

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 01:12 AM

So wierd this topic came up, I just had a wierd dream last night about getting drafted- to Korea....odd coincidence.

I wouldn't like the idea of getting drafted...kinda a contracdiction of what the US stands for... We are supposed to be a nation that believes in human rights and freedoms and such, but we are gonna force a whole bunch of people over the age 18 to go to a different country to fight a war and possibly die before most can enjoy their life in this "great" country....
I think the US has issues of its own to deal with before trying to change the world.

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#6    Fluffybunny

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:29 AM

QUOTE
United States draft, will it happen any time soon?


It depends. It might never happen, but I would not rule it out.

In the comat that we have been experienced over the past 2 years(Fairly tame by combat standards of past wars), we have some 1400 dead soldiers and a very high number of wounded that will not be returning to the battlefield for various reasons, mostly amputations or disabling wounds. I do not know the exact number of medical discharges/removed from duty to date, but as near as I can tell it is upwards of 30,000. It could be more, it could be less.

Keeping in mind that when we are talking about the Army, only about 15% of the soldiers are comat soldiers that are qualified to do the door to door combat that is going in in the search for insurgents in Iraqi cities.

The other 85%(Give or take) are support rolls; all very critical jobs, but they are only there to support the combat units directly or indirectly. Generally injuries do not happen to the support units(there are exceptions of course, so I say generally), but to the combat units. Those combat units are the backbone of the fighting in Iraq, you need to be able to kick down doors and and find the bad guys.

If the number of combat troops drops too low, all the support teams in the world cannot help in the fight to get the insurgents. The Infantry are the critical fighters in this war at this time, and taking the brunt of the injuries to date.

Let me clarify that although every Army soldier is qualified to shoot a rifle, it does not make them an infantryman; there is far more training that goes into being an infantry soldier than you would think. As I said in another thread, you cannot grab a cook out of the kitchen and give him a rifle and expect him to perform like and qualified infantry soldier(likewise would an infantry soldier be great at cooking), it just doesn't work that way. It takes much training and experience to be safe at doing the door to door fighting that is going on right now.

IF Iraq can build its infrastructure after the election and avoids a civil war(as some are guessing), the US will be able to slowly withdraw troops until Iraq is able to take care of itself. In that case, the US Army would be able to take the time to recouperate from its losses, therte would be no problem and no need for the draft.

If things do not go well after the election(A long oppressed majority is about to be able to take politcal control over a minority that has been oppressing them for decades) and there is a breakdown of the process leading to a civil war situation, then we have a huge can of worms opened up that we would be obligated to stop, regardless of the cost in human life(Ours and theirs). In that case a much longer fight would be the result; we currently are very stretched to the limits of our capabilities as far as infantry fighters are concerned. To have a couple more years(keep in mind that we have been in Iraq for 2 years in March) of increased combat fighting the likes of what we have seen will deplete our resources beyond the point that we can fight the war.

The replacement soldiers will have to come from somewhere. We have already been pulling resources from our bases all over the world to take part in Iraq. At a certain point we just don't have any spare soldiers to go do the fighting; plenty of support, but not the bread and butter fighters we need.

There will be a certain number of support type jobs that could be retrained to be infantry, but that is limited. Many soldiers are returning to do a SECOND year in Iraq already, and having to make in mandatory to keep combat untis in the area of combat for years on end takes a terrible toll on the soldiers as happened in WWII in many cases.

We have already activated most of our reserve units and national guard units, which in the past were more of a last line of defense as the full time soldiers were the first line, only to be replaced by reservists. We are already calling back retired soldiers to take up positions in support roles so that younger soldiers can go to the front.

I have several good friends whom I served with in Desert Storm who have stayed in the Army; they are now in charge of combat and medical support units in Iraq. The story from the top tells me that resources are a lot worse off than we are being lead to believe. I trust my friends with my life and if they are concerned; so am I.

Thanks to Clinton, we have a much smaller Army than we once did, they are more technologically advanced, but there arent as many of the fighters as there used to be. We have the potential to have a war on our hands that could require more of those fighting soldiers that we have.

I can't say that there will be a draft, but I will say that there could be a draft if we do not wrap up the war in Iraq soon. If all goes well with the elections and the infrastructure of Iraq can be rebuilt so that Iraq can take care of Iraq: there will be no problem. No Draft.

That may not be the case though...only time will tell.

I won't even go into Iran... rolleyes.gif


Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#7    lightbeyondthedark

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:38 AM

Thanks Fluffybunny... I enjoyed readin that...

But Iran seems like the next place we would go... Right? Or is that just me that can see something brewin with them...

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#8    warden

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:54 AM

QUOTE(Mekorig @ Jan 29 2005, 12:56 AM)
I speak from experience, because my countr had the Draf system for a lot of years, and didnt work. You only got kids how didnt want to go to a war, and are badly trained (its dificult to train someone how is thinking in going out everyday). Whit volunter soldiers you didnt have that problem because they are, well, volunter. If Bush put the draft, the only thing he will get will be hordes of poorly trained guys how didnt want to combat.

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When you put it like that MEKORIG you are probarly right,imagin having young people standing with a gun ready to fight who dont even want to be there,you will have lost already


#9    gollum

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 11:43 AM

I'm not that up on American policy making, but, what are the procedures required to set up a draft in America?
Does it go before Congress and then has to be passed or is there still a system in place since Vietnam that can be used if required?

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#10    Athenian

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 04:02 PM

Citizens of the USA, Do not sit around and help rot your country. Arise, Unite, and Rebel! Overthrow your corrupt leaders and government and re-establish anew! Wash away the corrupt and bring in the good!  sad.gif


#11    warden

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 04:05 PM

Ye over throw your government and replace it with what you think are decent people ,give them 2 mins in power and watch them change devil.gif


#12    Athenian

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 04:51 PM

QUOTE(warden @ Jan 29 2005, 04:05 PM)
Ye over throw your government and replace it with what you think are decent people ,give them 2 mins in power and watch them change devil.gif

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Well your not very optimistic then...  hmm.gif


#13    Stellar

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE
Citizens of the USA, Do not sit around and help rot your country. Arise, Unite, and Rebel! Overthrow your corrupt leaders and government and re-establish anew! Wash away the corrupt and bring in the good!


You realise that you can get into a lot of trouble for such talk? Trying to spread rebellion, armed insurrection...

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#14    Athenian

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE(Stellar @ Jan 29 2005, 06:30 PM)
QUOTE
Citizens of the USA, Do not sit around and help rot your country. Arise, Unite, and Rebel! Overthrow your corrupt leaders and government and re-establish anew! Wash away the corrupt and bring in the good!


You realise that you can get into a lot of trouble for such talk? Trying to spread rebellion, armed insurrection...

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Edited by Athenian, 29 January 2005 - 06:35 PM.





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