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Near Death Experience


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#16    Turtle

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 05:36 PM

Oakfords on Jan 3 2008, 10:15 PM, said:

A leading NDE researcher (PMH Atwater) read my experience and said: " Although street drugs were the initial trigger for this NDE, what happened next was a full-blown ascended state of consciousness that is well-documented in the spiritual and scientific literature."  PMH has probably done the most research on the subject too.  I had the pleasure of presenting with her at a conference in Portugal last year.  I had problems with the drug aspect of my experience but I know it didn't distort the meaning or the vision of what I experienced; rather it merely opened the gateway of consciousness to it.


Again with the name dropping. rolleyes.gif
Who's next?
Dr. Jeff Long or perhaps Dr. Kennith Ring, or maybee Moody himself, the Godfather of NDE's research.
What does Susan Blackmore have to say about your experience?


Now sometimes words can serve me well, sometimes words can go to hell for all that they do....and for every dream that took me high there's been a dream that's passed me by, I know it's so true...
Harry Chapin--Story of a Life
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With an iron clad fist I wake up and French Kiss the morning, while some marching band plays it own beat in my head while were talking...
Bon Jovi---Bed of Roses

#17    Oakfords

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 06:28 PM

Turtle on Jan 4 2008, 12:36 PM, said:

Again with the name dropping. rolleyes.gif
Who's next?
Dr. Jeff Long or perhaps Dr. Kennith Ring, or maybee Moody himself, the Godfather of NDE's research.
What does Susan Blackmore have to say about your experience?


While I met the Longs in person at an IANDS conference in 2006, they haven't evaluated my experience as far as I know.  I haven't met Drs. Moody or Blackmore so I'd bet neither of them have evaluated my experience either.  I mentioned PMH because I've met with her and she has evaluated my experience.  I'm not sure where you are coming from about the name dropping...I don't see anything in "da rules" about that being disallowed...



#18    Turtle

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 08:04 PM

Oakfords on Jan 4 2008, 01:28 PM, said:

While I met the Longs in person at an IANDS conference in 2006, they haven't evaluated my experience as far as I know.  I haven't met Drs. Moody or Blackmore so I'd bet neither of them have evaluated my experience either.  I mentioned PMH because I've met with her and she has evaluated my experience.  I'm not sure where you are coming from about the name dropping...I don't see anything in "da rules" about that being disallowed...


Sorry, but I can't get my head around why you need to find some sort of external validation...that's all.
Your experience was profound to you, I get that as I have had one as well...but your validation doesn't come fro PMH or Long or whomever...
NDE's are profound personalexperiences.
PMH has her own agenda...which you are validating...this doesn't mean she is validating you, but she is using you to validate her...
See how it works?!
No one can validate an experiencer except the experiencer.

I believe you and you are magnificent!
Guess this means squat to you because I ain't no "expert"/

Good luck with the book.
Blessings

Edited by Turtle, 04 January 2008 - 08:16 PM.

Now sometimes words can serve me well, sometimes words can go to hell for all that they do....and for every dream that took me high there's been a dream that's passed me by, I know it's so true...
Harry Chapin--Story of a Life
-----------------------------------------------------
With an iron clad fist I wake up and French Kiss the morning, while some marching band plays it own beat in my head while were talking...
Bon Jovi---Bed of Roses

#19    Zareste

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Posted 08 January 2008 - 12:33 AM

Quote

Believe as you will. I'm not trying to prove anything here, I'm just telling what happened, if one chooses to believe me, that's fine, if one doesn't, that's fine too.
It's believable - you definitely know what you saw, but that doesn't mean the malevolent behavior of angels is a good thing.  I started reading NDEs 5 or 6 years ago, hoping to get information on how a soul works so I'd be safer once I die.  You probably know by now that there's no guarantee you'll be lifted up or swept off to a heavenly city after death.  So I read one account after another, looking for useful tidbits.  I saw yours a few years ago and was really curious about the info you saw on the pyramids.  (I'm willing to bet they erased some of this information from your memory)


Back then I viewed the angels as benevolent, morally perfect beings.  Heck, I wasn't sure they existed.  Obscurity compliments them.  I read through NDEs by countless people and different sources, and, honestly I figured half of these reports would be hoaxes, but there were patterns - things that couldn't have been made-up because they were so consistent yet so unintuitive.  The angels always have the same personality and it's different from human personalities.  They don't respond to anyone's pain, at all.  Won't even pretend to care about the suffering and death of humans.  They'll send people back to their half-alive pain-wracked bodies, often by trickery, but they can physically force you back inside if need be.  (They only go as far as you push them.  You were submissive enough that they didn't have to do anything violent)  They don't mind the thought of massive worldwide death, and in fact they look forward to killing 80% of humans and putting their own species on Earth some time in the future.  They actually perk up at the mention of it.

It always gets racial.  (usually more so than in your case)  They regard everyone as a member of a race.  When they say the word 'you' it almost always refers to your race and not you as an individual.  They'll always show you everything they hate about your race.  Angels regard themselves as a species separate and superior to humans.

They have this strange interest in politics.  They say they're very involved in Earth's governments and they're using Europe to start a one-world government.  Also they have marketing down to an exact science and they know every imaginable social system.  They don't care about your religion, as long as you follow one - all that matters to them is making everyone follow one of their religions, and they gear each religion to suit each society.  Consistently, they show interest in economics and even say they introduced capitalism to Earth.  These really aren't things you'd make up if you were creating a hoax about angels.

They admit that they'll create any illusion to make you happy.  You have to wonder if they're disguising themselves as dead relatives.

It was pretty upsetting to realize all these things.  I was a Christian for most of my life and believed death led to an eternal reward.  Well, that went out the window, but honestly it was liberating to realize Jehovah and his angels are not omnipotent and their malevolent behavior is, in fact, malevolent when they do it too.


#20    ImNotHere

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 01:03 PM

thank you for sharing your experience, it was very interesting. I read a book once which included experiences very similar to yours.


#21    ChzM

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:59 AM

I've been looking for something like this for so long. Many of the things you've said, I feel. I realized it last night when I was high, I realized that I was headed in the wrong direction. For the past few months I've been going through a real rough patch. I've used drugs as an escape and up until now it was working, I had convinced myself that the only thing that was real was my consciousness and that it was only a matter of time until I found the portal to take me to the next plane. I've become completely obsessed with finding this portal.

Last night I realized that I'm not supposed to find the portal yet, there's something I must do. I also realized that all of the pain I've suffered over the past 3 years has been preparation for what's coming. I don't know what to think of it, but your post has helped me to realize that I can't be selfish in wanting to find the portal and leave, because I'm not ready to live with them yet. I have to be patient. I'm not sure what I must do yet, but I'm starting to think that it has something to do with this whole North American Union thing. I've been seeing it in completely random places, I think its a sign of something I need to do.

Thanks, your post has helped me immensely.


#22    inkblot

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:19 PM

Zareste, what exactly happens to us when we die?


#23    Rolci

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:44 PM

One of the best threads yet, would like to see more of the "confrontation" b/w oakfords and zareste.

BTW, the same story can be found on about a dozen more webpages. Turnes out this is an just extract from his book. Excellent way of cashing in on others. 2 of the webpages:

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Bared-Metaphysi...d/dp/1413723071
http://www.near-death.com/oakford/soul_bared.html
http://hometown.aol.com/oakfords/main.html
http://www.near-death.com/oakford.html

and there's loads more...

anyway, the extract was a good read...

So, i wonder, what happens when, after hundreds of painful lifetimes, you "graduate", what's next? you start working in those cities of light? how charming... can you EVER get to do whatever you want, go wherever you like, just be FREE? When you won't have to come back to GAIA or anywhere else, when these "helping" angels will finally just leave you alone? And even then, what next? wouldn't you be bored having nothing to do? is there anything out there that you can do, but don't have to, and is not painful, but more like fun, and don't get bored with? I still can't see the whole point. ok, there will be world peace, higher-energy humans, then what? what is the ultimategoal, and why do we have to be drones to get that accomplished? why is there no way out? i think i'll just kill myself, and when i'm born again, enjoy childhood, and when it's over, just kill myself again. i just can't see the point in being a slave for eternity without any goal that'd make any sense. so what is the ultimate reward, if there's one? without knowing there is one, no wonder ppl live their lives the way they do - oblivious, materialistic, spiritually dead. tell us something that'll make a difference beyond any doubt, and maybe there'll be some change. not until then.


#24    Zareste

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 06:23 AM

In death we face the same situation we face in life: being ruled by predators and legislation.  I'm certain there are places in the universe where they can incarnate as they like, but not here.

Quote

Zareste, what exactly happens to us when we die?
You've got no human form to go back to.  That's the only guarantee.  Some people are helped by their ancestors or friends, sometimes death-angels are ordered to watch them but don't personally know or care about them (in fact sometimes it's the angel who kills them), sometimes they're left on their own and have nobody to turn to, and sometimes they're abducted by predators and face indefinite torment.  There is no certainty for anyone on the planet.

People in the past had closely knit reincarnation cycles - people of a tribe would reincarnate back into their tribe and ensure that outsiders keep out of their lineage, behaving in death as they do in life.  A deceased person might come back as his own grand-daughter.

Today's international societies are run by gangs and governments, the way we live in normal life.  Most of us in this forum had little or no choice about where we were born - we were lucky not to be put in a lab animal, and were essentially ditched here.  If you're from the right ancestry and if you're old enough, you might have a wider selection of incarnations and can take the more privileged lives.

Parts of Europe and the US are becoming interplanetary societies that include off-worlders.  They may not have casual space flight but some of them are indeed foreign to the planet.   That's usually where you hear about the angels.  The city in Oakfords' account (above) is one of many cities kept in our atmosphere, hidden in certain cumulous clouds. There is no single Heaven and it's not in another dimension - it's a city that may have flown over your head during a thunder-storm.  (and yes I find that as surreal as you do) Most of these angels appear to be the Anunnaki (Nephilim) - or at least descendants of them.  In all accounts I read, their behavior is entirely consistent with the angels recorded by early Mesopotamians (written in the Bible, Koran, hieroglyphs and so forth).

One fortunate thing is the angels (Jehovah included) don't rule the entire universe, by any stretch.  They can barely travel outside our galaxy cluster, and there are civilizations out there who could lay waste to them in a heartbeat.  They rule a lot of planets where they enforce their customized reincarnation system, but their grip is loosening.

There is a very formidable resistance against Jehovah, partly for the reasons Rolci just gave.  Nobody wants to live this way.  His systems are revolting and extremely elitist, classifying everyone by race, age, ancestry, anything; it's an interstellar aristocracy to decide who gets the best bodies, the best lives, and lives on the best planets.  While we're living in endless death on a planet that's basically a ghetto, Jehovah and his friends live in paradise with no intention of giving it to any of us.  Everyone who goes to a heavenly city is told they can only stay there for a little while, then it's back to the cycle of life in torment and death.

But the resistance is no joke.  Most of it is comprised of defected angels from Jehovah's own society, so they know how to get rid of him.  It scares the crap out of Jehovah and you can see it in the texts.  He's starting to act the as Saddam Hussein did in his last days as a ruler.
There's another NDE account I'd like everyone to see http://www.near-death.com/wagner.html  This person, instead of going to a heavenly city with a few angels, was directed to an entire planet of them - where they actually lived - and they didn't invite him there.  True to the behavior of the angels in the texts, they were ready to kill him without a second thought.  He was a low-class spirit on angel property.  There, he met a person - a very powerful person who doesn't mention his name, but says he introduced all sorts of life to Earth.

This creator behaved exactly as Jehovah did in the texts.  A violent, angry, elitist, even childish, tyrant.

He says there's a resistance against him that comes in waves and is getting stronger each time.  He dreads that they'll eventually get through the planet's defenses, and there's this feeling of inevitable doom about him.  If I'm interpreting his message correctly (his allusion to early Europe), he blames this war on his defected angels, and the fact that he didn't kill them when he had the chance.  He believes he could have saved himself by killing more people.  Jehovah refuses to realize that justice comes for everyone including him.  Every elitist system requires that the reigning class be killed to even out the quality of life and ensure progress.  Even if it takes another 200-thousand years to fix our broken system, it will be fixed.

Edited by Zareste, 22 January 2008 - 06:24 AM.


#25    Blueguardian

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 09:14 AM

if i was given a choice to stay or go, i guess i would choose to stay here on Earth/Gaia sure it would be fantastic to stay at a place that so great i cant even begin to comprehend or even imgaine, but really your life here on earth will teach you many things, stay for as long as possible and learn as much as possible. i have a friend thats had an OBE but she doesnt want to talk about it, which i do respect, i think i'll always wonder what happened when she was there.

also i came across a few interesting things related to Gaia

Gaia Hypothesis and Gaia The Greek Earth God

also i seem to have a memory, im not sure if i dreampt it or not but, in this memory i am sitting in a high chair, im a baby in it, im watching my room being painted by some painters, though i wasnt alive when they painted my room. interesting either way.

Edited by Blueguardian, 22 January 2008 - 10:16 AM.

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#26    St Q

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 03:32 PM

Oakfords on Dec 30 2007, 12:00 PM, said:

This happened to me in 1979 due to a drug overdose.  I was almost 20 then and took big risks in my life.  I have no excuse for it all really, but this is what happened to me.  There is more to the story, but this is the lion's share of my journey through the world of spirit!

[...]

Again, I wish you all of the love I feel in my heart and I give this love to you!

I got a million questions, but I'll try to narrow it down. First off, let me say that I enjoyed your story and appreciate your decision to tell it. I believe it to be true, or should I say, I believe that you believe it to be true. Secondly, I do not believe that drugs affect the conscious mind while out of body. However, I do believe that they can affect a person's memory upon his or her return. Have you considered hypnosis?

When you reached out for the stereo volume control, power cord and doorknob, were you able to see your hand and arm each time? After not seeing your reflection in the mirror, were you at any time able to perceive yourself in a body, aura or other such vehicle?

Other than its feet, did your guide or guardian angel always appear solid? What was it wearing? Could its clothing or any other part of it have been misinterpreted as wings? When it spoke to you, would you say that its voice had a masculine or feminine tonal quality? Did it enter your head from outside, emanate from within, or become part of your own thought process? If it was part of your own thought process, how were you able to distinguish the difference between it and the thoughts of the judges and other angels? Do you think that the angel left you alone with the judges so as not to confuse you with its own thoughts? Did you at any time attempt to speak without moving your mouth?

Last question (for now): Is it possible that the drug allowed you to interpret your junk DNA code, which unfolded into the story that you had experienced?

Edited by St Q, 22 January 2008 - 03:36 PM.

"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." - Niels Bohr.

#27    nara

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 09:05 PM

At least nobodies killing each other over religeon and fear of difference. disgust.gif

:D

#28    redstone

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:20 PM

Now that's very interesting. Was it possible that it was heaven?





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