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Call for Europe-Wide Swastika Ban


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#46    Boff

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:59 AM

I agree.


#47    Dancing_Dumplings

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:19 AM

QUOTE
In India, both clockwise and counterclockwise swastikas were used, with different meanings. Since the swastika is a simple symbol, it has been used, perhaps independently, by many human societies. One of the oldest known swastikas was painted on a Paleolithic cave at least 10,000 years ago. The swastika still continues today to be an extensively used sign in Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism. In Jainism, it delineates their seventh saint, and the four arms are also used to remind the worshiper of the four possible places of rebirth; the animal or plant world, in Hell, on Earth, or in the spirit world. To Hindus, the swastika with the arms bent to the left is called the sathio or sauvastika, which symbolizes night, magic, purity, and the destructive goddess Kali. In both Hinduism and Jainism, the swastika or sathio is used to mark the opening pages or their account books, thresholds, doors, and offerings.

QUOTE
In China, about 2000 years ago, when Buddhism was brought to China from India, the Chinese also borrowed the swastika and its sense of auspiciousness. In China, the swastika is considered to be a Chinese character with the reading of WAN (in Mandarin). It is also thought to be equivalent to another Chinese character with the same pronunciation, which means 'ten thousand; a large number; all'.

QUOTE
In the Americas, the swastika was used by Native Americans in North, Central, and South America. The swastika was also widely used in Mayan and Aztec art. In North America, the swastika was a symbol used by the Navajos, Tennessee and Ohio Indian burial mounds (Hopewell Mound).


source, with pictures too

my uncles girlfriend has a blanket hanging from the wall. i glanced over at it for a second, and did a double take. there were swastikas all over it. things didnt match up in my head, since my uncles girlfriend just happens to be Jewish.
so naturally i asked her what it was, and if those really were swastikas. she told me that someone gave it to her as a gift. apprently it was a native american blanket, and swastika are common with certian tribes grin2.gif
the swastika has been twisted around since the nazis disgust.gif when someone says "swastika" your mind automaticly thinks "Nazi" which is sad really, since it means peace in many diffrent cultures disgust.gif

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#48    SilverCougar

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 12:23 PM

I would rather the origonal meaning restored, then have it banned.



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#49    joc

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE
They claimed if churches can have crosses on their rooves, why not us and our symbol too?



They do have a point too.




I believe the Nazi party as well as the Communist party has the right to exist as an institution.  I believe they have the right to express their views in the political spectrum.  I also believe they have the right to display a flag inside and outside their headquarters.  

It is better to have them around than to get rid of them by squashing the freedoms of the populace.  But if they step outside of the law one micron...slam 'em up against the legal wall!

That being said...should the KKK be allowed to have Headquarters in Harlem and display the KKK flag?  Or would that be considered to be 'inciting a riot'.  There is a line which one crosses with their speech that cannot be overlooked.  It is a fine line as well.


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#50    Wings of Selkhet

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:46 PM

Ugh. This is all so complicated. Too many shades of gray, I think.


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#51    Monkyburd

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE
That being said...should the KKK be allowed to have Headquarters in Harlem and display the KKK flag? Or would that be considered to be 'inciting a riot'. There is a line which one crosses with their speech that cannot be overlooked. It is a fine line as well.


Definately a good point. The Nazi symbol (The black swastika surrounded by red with an eagle on top) is basically saying,"We hate all jews, gays, blacks, ect. ect." It is a very fine line. mellow.gif


#52    Stellar

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE
But if they step outside of the law one micron...slam 'em up against the legal wall!


Damn straight.

QUOTE
That being said...should the KKK be allowed to have Headquarters in Harlem and display the KKK flag? Or would that be considered to be 'inciting a riot'. There is a line which one crosses with their speech that cannot be overlooked. It is a fine line as well.


I really couldnt care less. Either ban them all, or let them all exist. A person who's grandmother or somethign was killed by the church for "witchcraft" might find the cross equally dispicable.



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#53    Athenian

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:00 PM

QUOTE(Monkyburd @ Jan 17 2005, 04:48 PM)
QUOTE
That being said...should the KKK be allowed to have Headquarters in Harlem and display the KKK flag? Or would that be considered to be 'inciting a riot'. There is a line which one crosses with their speech that cannot be overlooked. It is a fine line as well.


Definately a good point. The Nazi symbol (The black swastika surrounded by red with an eagle on top) is basically saying,"We hate all jews, gays, blacks, ect. ect." It is a very fine line. mellow.gif

View Post



The KKK are too violent and ignorant, Their freedom of speech should be very limited... The Nazis/Neo-Nazis seem to be more open minded though... They should be allowed more priveladges than hate groups like the KKK.

Remember, Just because you believe a certain race is inferior to yours... Does not mean you have to hate that certain race and kill them off!  wink2.gif

Edited by Athenian, 17 January 2005 - 05:03 PM.


#54    Fluffybunny

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:07 PM

QUOTE
The KKK are too violent and ignorant, Their freedom of speech should be very limited... The Nazis/Neo-Nazis seem to be more open minded though... They should be allowed more priveladges than hate groups like the KKK.


And who gets to choose? And what happens when your speech is deemed ignorant?

Freedom of speech is a basic freedom, and it cuts both ways. Sometimes we like it when we get to say what we want, and sometime we hate it what others say things we do not like, but the split second someone starts to decide who gets to have the freedom to speak their mind you have fascism.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#55    joc

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:24 PM

QUOTE
QUOTE
The KKK are too violent and ignorant, Their freedom of speech should be very limited... The Nazis/Neo-Nazis seem to be more open minded though... They should be allowed more priveladges than hate groups like the KKK.


And who gets to choose? And what happens when your speech is deemed ignorant?

Freedom of speech is a basic freedom, and it cuts both ways. Sometimes we like it when we get to say what we want, and sometime we hate it what others say things we do not like, but the split second someone starts to decide who gets to have the freedom to speak their mind you have fascism.


Well said. thumbsup.gif

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#56    Hotoke

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:44 PM

as long as hammer and sickle can continue to exist it is fine with me

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#57    SilverCougar

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 08:19 PM

It's all good and fine till someone kills another, again, based off of some biggitory reason....

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#58    Stellar

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 11:58 PM

QUOTE(Fluffybunny @ Jan 17 2005, 05:07 PM)
QUOTE
The KKK are too violent and ignorant, Their freedom of speech should be very limited... The Nazis/Neo-Nazis seem to be more open minded though... They should be allowed more priveladges than hate groups like the KKK.


And who gets to choose? And what happens when your speech is deemed ignorant?

Freedom of speech is a basic freedom, and it cuts both ways. Sometimes we like it when we get to say what we want, and sometime we hate it what others say things we do not like, but the split second someone starts to decide who gets to have the freedom to speak their mind you have fascism.

View Post



Thats similar to what I was trying to point out.

With such a serious desire to avoid another reoccurance of WW2 and to punish those responsible for it, you might just be repeating history.

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#59    Poppycat

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 11:12 AM

Society as a whole does tend to determine what is or is not acceptable to speak about in public. I don't think we need a specific statute to 'ban' things current society dislikes. People should be free to discuss what they like and if they have any sense they will do it behind closed doors where they are not offending others. They'll do that if its illegal anyway. After all, 30 years ago it wouldn't have been acceptable to be gay in the small town where  I was brought up - or even talk about being gay in the pub. Now its perfectly acceptable. However laws are difficult to repeal and there are still inequalities in the eyes of the law between gay and straight people. Perhaps in 30 years time the swastika will be an acceptable symbol again? What is the point in wasting parliamentary time debating and implementing such a law when there are perfectly adequate laws to prevent such a symbol being incorrectly used and displayed anyway?


#60    Talon

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 12:15 PM

Can they explain what they mean by ban?


I mean is it just a ban on parties and individuals etc having it, or are they talkimg about going so far as to have in movies and video games the a cross being worn by Nazis instead... cause the fist parties okay, but the second is rewritting history and stupid. We learn from the past, not try and pretend it didn't happen.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato




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