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Is your sense of the divine found in Nature?


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Poll: Divinity/Nature Poll (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Is the divine separate from Nature/Universe aka for some "is God separate from His Creation?"

  1. Yes, nature is not where the divine can be found? (1 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  2. No, every part of nature contains the essence of the divine (God for some) (18 votes [94.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 94.74%

Are you Christian or Pagan?

  1. Christian (5 votes [26.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.32%

  2. Pagan (3 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

  3. Other (11 votes [57.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.89%

Are trees special?

  1. Yes (13 votes [68.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.42%

  2. No (6 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#16    Mr Walker

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:30 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 30 September 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Did your god tell you that? It sounds to me that you're merely describing your spirit, what you've been taught for years. Philosophy stuff. Then again, if it works for you, then wonderful for you.  On the other hand, what is this "experience" you're telling us? Was it a "dream" experience?

I once prayed to a personal god/deity, but see where it got me -- back to 101. I've come to realize that everything in this world is to get us out of this world. I am following spirituality after all, not materialism. Praying for things and protection?? Wasn't it Jesus who said to give your riches/things away?? Something to think about. No amount of prayer will protect people from the harshness of this world, unfortunately. Speaking of Christ...he was crucified, was he not? Rudi, the founder of my meditation group, died in a plane crash, with all the gory details. Therefore, the real God(?), to me, is not in this world...
In my experience (which is all I can really go by) god's sapience exists in us and all around us. If we contact it within ourselves we can use it to accees all forms of sapience, and piggy-  back on it, anywhere in space and time. I know god exists out side of me because of what it contributes beyond what i can know or do, as an isolated self awareness in a discrete physical body.

  God is also capable of indpendent powerful physical manifestions that i am not capable of. The incident which made me realise this, was when confronted by a being of light which told me it had cured me of a nicotine addiction. . It was 2 metres tall, lit up hundreds of square feet of my front garden and was observed by other people from a distance. I kNEW i did not have the ability in my self to generate tha  amount of energy (although for a short time i considered if i had manifested it and cured my self of addiction at the same time) The light was the equivalent of may thousands of watts. Using outside halogen lamps as an equivalent, more than 10000 watts illumination. SO i had to look for and accept other possibilities

God can come in dreams and prophecies but also in physical form or via other human agents. He can come as sound light energy  matter in any form, etc All of these are real physicla and visible audible in the common real world.

One night i had a dream in which i died three times, In future times the contents of that dream allowed me to avoid death by recognising an emerging situauin and avoiding it, But at the same time god also  manifested and helped me survive  with further warnings and physical interventions in those dangerous situations.

I am not your traditional christian. I dont believe in after life for example, but i know god, and i think i understand gods purpose for me. While christ preached a spiritual message, he also preached and illustrated how we should live life here on earth and our responsibiity to other humans and the earth itslef. We are stewards of god who must use our talents given by god to uselful purpose. Tha tis essentially the purpose of the spiritual dimension with us, after all
A relationship with god is not about prayer but about communication, and doing gods will.  Physically doing gods will using the exampla rof christ (Or indeed of buddah) does improve the earth and help others on it Prayer may guide god to help and intervene and mke us feel better, but a more sure method is to use the abilities god gives us, and his guidance and wisdoms, to make a positive differnce in our world

Christ said to use our talents wisely. Riches can be invested and multiplied and used to do more good, than if they are spent once, It is not money, but the love of money, which keeps one from appreciating our spirtual selves. I do give most of my money away and i do live simply without buying new goods or consuming more of the earths resources than i need to to survive comfortably ie not go hungry or cold. This computer, for example, is 8 years old and was bought from insurance money when we lost everythng we possessed in a bush fire.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#17    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:45 AM

Thank you for sharing your belief system, Mr Walker.  :)

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."

#18    Beany

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:29 AM

View Postlittle_dreamer, on 01 October 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

I find nature relaxes and energizes me, but I don't worship it.
Nor do I worship nature, however, I do honor it.


#19    Mr Walker

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:11 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 01 October 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Thank you for sharing your belief system, Mr Walker.  :)
I appreciate the sincerity  and intent of your comment, but in my case it really isnt a "belief system", other than in how i think through things. and understand things. I dont believe in god ,I know an entity i choose to call god.

I dont know if it is "GOD!!!" but to all intents and purposes, it has the powers of a god and acts like a god and interacts with me as other humans say god has interacted with them. So being a wise man and prudent, I call it god. That also makes it easier to talk with others about it, than naming it something completely different.  Yes there are some unknowns attached to this entity, but after 40 years there are still many unknowns attached to my wife. I know god better than my wife in some ways because we share a consciousness, which i cannot do with my wife.

What i dont "get" is how unusual such a relationship appears to be or why that is so. I am a perfectly ordinary and normal human. God should be just as physically accessible to anyone, as to me.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#20    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:33 AM

Were you already conversing with your god during the time when you lost everything, Mr Walker?

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."

#21    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:22 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 01 October 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Were you already conversing with your god during the time when you lost everything, Mr Walker?
I encountered the cosmic consciousness when i prepubescent. I cant remember exactly when the first encounter/ connection was, although i remember its quality.

Many decades later i read about it, from other people, and realised this was not unique to me but neither was it particulalrly common. I assumed as a young person that all humans had this connection and the abilities it gave. I  quicklylearned that they did not. But i never thought of it as god. It was more of a chi or energy force which extended through me and through all things around me. God/the cosmic conscious was present in me all my life but i only gradually became aware of it and, more slowly,  what it was.
For example i could "piggy back it" to  OBE anywhere in the world or around the universe by the time i was a teenager. I could read minds at times find lost objects and once predicted almost a whole set of playing cards as a friend turned them over and looked at them without me being able ot see them.

   But i was about 22 when  firstgod manifested in physical form  and from then I evolved my relationship with it. I hadnt realised until then that the cosmic consciusness also had the ability to manipulate energy and matter on our material level, basically at will (or via advanced technology.)

God saved me form a potential fatal heart atttack in 2004 when i was 52 and again 8 months later in jan 05 from  a bushfire.

Those are two fiull stories in them selves.

Yes god was directly commuicating to me before those times. I knew and recognised his words of warnng and acted on them. He  sat on my shoulder guiding me/directing me and keeping me calm and safe and sent a physical angel to offer words of support  and to give me a bible which opened to the words "Do not fear. No harm shall come to you, for I am with you/watching over you ". That being disappeared/dematerialised from an isolated balcony 5 floors from the ground in the royal adelaide hospital.  but the bible remained until it was burned with everything else we owned in the bushfire.

Edited by Mr Walker, 02 October 2012 - 01:42 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#22    Beany

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:37 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 01 October 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

I appreciate the sincerity  and intent of your comment, but in my case it really isnt a "belief system", other than in how i think through things. and understand things. I dont believe in god ,I know an entity i choose to call god.

I dont know if it is "GOD!!!" but to all intents and purposes, it has the powers of a god and acts like a god and interacts with me as other humans say god has interacted with them. So being a wise man and prudent, I call it god. That also makes it easier to talk with others about it, than naming it something completely different.  Yes there are some unknowns attached to this entity, but after 40 years there are still many unknowns attached to my wife. I know god better than my wife in some ways because we share a consciousness, which i cannot do with my wife.

What i dont "get" is how unusual such a relationship appears to be or why that is so. I am a perfectly ordinary and normal human. God should be just as physically accessible to anyone, as to me.

After some considerable thinking about this, I'm not sure it's God as most people know it. I like the cosmic consciousness thing better. I don't think I'll ever fully comprehend what ever "it" is, clearly it's too big and too vast and too complicated for my brain to fully understand. It's the Big Is, is how I think about it, something out there and in here, that permeates everything and makes everything run, maybe like a giganto intelligent power source. Who knows? Doesn't even have to be divine, really. What ever it is, I interact with it almost daily, how could I not since I'm a part of it?


#23    Likely Guy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

Is my sense of the divine found in Nature?

Yes, that's one of the places that I find it. A few days ago I spent the day in Cathedral Grove, on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. If you don't find a place like that awe inspiring, you have no pulse!


#24    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

View PostBeany, on 02 October 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

After some considerable thinking about this, I'm not sure it's God as most people know it. I like the cosmic consciousness thing better. I don't think I'll ever fully comprehend what ever "it" is, clearly it's too big and too vast and too complicated for my brain to fully understand. It's the Big Is, is how I think about it, something out there and in here, that permeates everything and makes everything run, maybe like a giganto intelligent power source. Who knows? Doesn't even have to be divine, really. What ever it is, I interact with it almost daily, how could I not since I'm a part of it?

Yes i agree. I knew it first as the cosmic consciousness, and tend to label it god,first because it acts like humans think of god acting, second because it is a repsectful label for that entity, and third because few people have heard of, let alone understand the nature of, the cosmic consciousness.

Of course the problem with using the term god is that everone brings their own perceptions of how/what god is, with them.

It is nt hard to understand the part which exists within us, nor really the part we direclty link with. I have seen its physical network linking much of our galaxy and the universe although i dont know if it is an organic or material construct of the consciousness The first awareness of "oneness with the universe" is a bit overwhelming, but one can appreciate its functionality and usefulness.

Perhaps human minds are only marginally evolved enough yet to access it. As we evolve and understand more i think it will become almost common place to access the consciousness, for all sorts of reasons. For me, personally, it has been  a vehicle for learning, but also for exploring and expanding my own knowledge and understanding. In other words, it is fun. Like finding a new planet and exploring/learning  etc.

I really dont think, given our technological progress that it will be more than a couple of centuries before we can fully integrate with it , use it. and even  copy elements of it. ourselves.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#25    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:34 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 02 October 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Yes god was directly commuicating to me before those times.
On the other hand, you didn't lose everything. You were insured... Why, however, did your god allow the fire to happen? What was its purpose?

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."

#26    Mr Walker

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:37 PM

View Postbraveone2u, on 02 October 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

On the other hand, you didn't lose everything. You were insured... Why, however, did your god allow the fire to happen? What was its purpose?

I was insured but insurance cant buy back irreplaceable things like the only  copies of family photos going back 150 years research p[hotos and documents for a family tree tracing my family back 300 years, a telescope brought out on the first ship to south australia by my wifes great grandmother, original paintings by the artists on mathew flinders voyage in 1801, to map our coast line. They couldn't replace my wifes wedding dress or her mothers one. Or the antique red cedar table fom my great grandmothers farm kitchen still marked by circular burns from hot water kettles off the fire. We paid 400 dollars for that table  from a cousin when  we got married.  A similar one sold in sydney for 20000 dollars My mum bought us one of the original lithographs for 20 dollars when we were married a similar one sold in auction for $30000 (more than it was really worth in my opinion) There was no way insurance money could buy back such items We lost at least a hundred thousand dollars worth of material items whch were not insured because it would have cost too much to do so. I lost a stamp collection collected from childhood including very rare and valuable australian stamps.

But its not about the value. We didnt pay a lot for them, we werent going to sell them. Eventually we would have passed them on to the next generation of family.  It is the loss of those items to the world, to the future, and to history. The reason why they were materially so valauble was their rarity and in some cases uniqueness. The first thing my wife cried about as we slept in her brothers bed (he had moved to his sons to give us a place to stay) the night of the fire, was the loss of her, and her mothers, wedding dress.

The fire had no purpose. The world does not work that way. It was caused by a bloke with a faulty muffler/spark arrestor driving/parking on a grassy verge. I dont blame him and i didnt join the class action against him/ the insurance companies ( people died and i suspect his guilt was great, but he didn't know his muffler was faulty. It was just a tragic event)

. The severity /intensity of this fire was the greatst ever recorded in australia at the time and as great as the later but larger victorian fires.  The conditions were so extreme that paddocks and houses simply exploded in flame before the main fire front was any where near them .As we drove away, through  spot fires and dense smoke, we heard a radio broadcast. A witness 20 miles away saw our house explode and said something like, There's some poor buggers house gone." Only later did we realise it was our own
God had no hand in the fire. What he did do was save me and a number of other people (that i know of) from the fire For me it was clear and explicit because i was already in  a physicla relationship with god.

For others, who wrote in a book published after the fire, it was the "presence' of god which saved them. They disnt encouter the physicality of god, as i did tha t day (as far as I now) but they sensed god protecting them. They survived, in partn because of their repsonse to that feeling of protection.

A cousin was caught outside his car/utility, trying to save his dog. This was in densely wooded and hilly country.  The fire swept over him before he realised it was approaching, and before he could get back into the car. He and the dog lay down in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. He wasn't hurt but when he got up to get back in the car, he pulled on the door handle to open the door. It melted in his hand and seriously burned his hand, leaving the impression of his hand in the molten plastic. Later, that handle was part of a post fire exhibition.

Ps god helped me most after the fire. I was never traumatidsed. I was not grief stricken i was not even sad or depressed. I was never angry. The love and generosity of my community and the people of australia overwhelmed me Tha twas the only thing which brought me to tears when i had ot thank epole for thie love kindness and charity.

The whole experience for me became a psotive one of learning, growth, love and development. It made me a better, stronger person. But that is mY response to it, engendered by gods help. Many others still suffer trauma sme considerably. One bloke just commited suicide this year  7 years after having lost his wife and two little girls in the fire. i feel for him, and his losses were far greater and of a different magntude to mine, but it was impossible for me to have a similar response. God prevented it by changing my heart and mind, keeping them  safe, and filled with love and joy.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 October 2012 - 10:50 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#27    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 October 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

The fire had no purpose. The world does not work that way.

It was just a tragic event)

Only later did we realise it was our own
God had no hand in the fire. What he did do was save me and a number of other people (that i know of) from the fire For me it was clear and explicit because i was already in  a physicla relationship with god.

A cousin was caught outside his car/utility, trying to save his dog. This was in densely wooded and hilly country.  The fire swept over him before he realised it was approaching, and before he could get back into the car. He and the dog lay down in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. He wasn't hurt but when he got up to get back in the car, he pulled on the door handle to open the door. It melted in his hand and seriously burned his hand, leaving the impression of his hand in the molten plastic. Later, that handle was part of a post fire exhibition.

Ps god helped me most after the fire. I was never traumatidsed. I was not grief stricken i was not even sad or depressed. I was never angry. The love and generosity of my community and the people of australia overwhelmed me Tha twas the only thing which brought me to tears when i had ot thank epole for thie love kindness and charity.

The whole experience for me became a psotive one of learning, growth, love and development. It made me a better, stronger person. But that is mY response to it, engendered by gods help. Many others still suffer trauma sme considerably. One bloke just commited suicide this year  7 years after having lost his wife and two little girls in the fire. i feel for him, and his losses were far greater and of a different magntude to mine, but it was impossible for me to have a similar response. God prevented it by changing my heart and mind, keeping them  safe, and filled with love and joy.
I wasn't asking about how the world works... Since you're in contact with your god, have you asked him/her why he/she allowed the fire happen? Is your god a limited power?  Did "it" even foresee this event?

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Mr Walker.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."

#28    Mr Walker

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:21 AM

View Postbraveone2u, on 04 October 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

I wasn't asking about how the world works... Since you're in contact with your god, have you asked him/her why he/she allowed the fire happen? Is your god a limited power?  Did "it" even foresee this event?

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Mr Walker.
We talk more about the personal issues and its probably my fault. I dont think of god beyond my  self. I am not interested in getting others to convert or believe in god  and as far as i kno,w god is not. either. God encourages me and helps me to help hundreds of other peopl, many animals, and the environment, around the world. It is not that he or I are selfish. I give about 20000 dollars away to helppeole every year, but our relationship is between us. god empowers and enriches  me, so that I am able to do more for others.

it has never asked, expected, or even hinted that i should try and prosylethise, but is happy for me to talk about our relationship.

For me god, and human is a one on one connection, but i can explain my own informed views which are in part formed from my understanding of the nature of god.

First god is not the omnscient omnipotent entity imagined by some, including some christians. God did not create the world. God does not normally intervene  in a way which negates human free will. God educates, mentors, protects, educates, etc., and supplies empowerments and abilities to individuals to help them . God expects humans to be all they can be, and to make the world a better place .

God doesnt cause natual events (or human events like wars) but god can work with people to protect them from events and to strengthen them in times of tragedy and hardship. God works inside people to do this. God also warns and protects people, both about the dangers of their own behaviours and about natural events, in order to minmise the effects of such events.
God has great computing power and the abilty to extarpolate information . No i dont think god forsaw this event although he forsaw the potentiality of the event.  He warned me a year or so before, that i might face this scenario. But then i could work that out myslelf by applying algorithms and common sense, to my personal location and situation.

I had just had a triple by pass, 6 months before and wasnt physically able to prepare for a fire or stay and defend our home.

It was a random chaotic event. But god acted within the parameters of the event to warn and protect, and to guide people to safety The area was without power and had been for hours. Powerlines and poles were burnt down all around us exept to the north.  God spoke tome and told me to turn on the radio even though there was no power . the radio came on to an ABC announ cement which lasted 30 secs to a minute. It told my wife and I that the wind change had changed the direction of the fire front by 90degrees and the fire front was now about 15 minutes away from us i think god did it this way to convince my wife SHe heard the news and immedaitely asked me to evacuate. We grabbed the cat, the box of emergency papers etc., and took off as the fire hit.

I said to god, whatever happens is your will and  i am happy in your hands". He replied "Dont worry you both will be safe and untouched." He than "sat on my shoulder" and i drove slowy and calmly, qui e unafraid, out through smoke so dense you couldnt see the edge of the roadd and through spot fires breaking out all around us.That calmness and assurety of safety saved us.My wife asked me to drive faster. I said no we were going to be safe if we went carefuly but if we panicked we could run off the road  A number of people, as we found out later, did that and died. I missed one turn in the smoke as it was, but stayed just ahead of the fire front until i could get out of its way.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#29    No-thingBornPassion

No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 04 October 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

I dont think of god beyond my  self.

First god is not the omnscient omnipotent entity imagined by some, including some christians. God did not create the world. God does not normally intervene  in a way which negates human free will.
Thank you for clarifying your "thoughts" about your god, Mr Walker.

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."

#30    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:10 PM

A mystic/swami/teacher once told me that a person goes directly to his or her personal deity after the process of death, instead of merging with God(?), the true Power. One of the tasks of a guru is to sever that deity-tie in order for that person to merge with the one God(?) via Nirvana -- finally to be free, the only true freedom. The worst thing a guru/teacher can do is to make himself/herself into another deity for a student to transcend, to become another pain-in-the-bvtt; a guru who does this is an insecure, deluded one, no doubt. A guru is merely a servant of the "flow," "a sh%t stick," if you will. A GREAT guru is a puppet. A no-thing.

"I passed the test. I will diminish..." GALADRIEL

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According to Gnosticism, Christ came to world to give us a way out; so, why is Gnosticism so secretive and elitist when it comes to salvation??
Eileen Ford speaks candidly about supermodels: "...And they have to be cheerful. Nobody likes to go in and hear your troubles, you know. When people ask you how you feel, don't tell them if you're sick, 'cause they don't really care."




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