Peace Crusader Posted February 17, 2007 #1 Share Posted February 17, 2007 My Dear Fellowmen, All Muslims are expected to believe the main doctrines of Islam consisting of five articles of faith. These are: 1. God. His name is Allah and is the supreme being of all. He is uncreated, without beginning or end. He created all. 2. Angels. Every person has two angels; one records his good deeds, and the other, his bad deeds. Jibreel (Gabriel) is the angel who brought the revelation of the Qu’ran to Muhammad. 3. Scripture. The four inspired books in Islam are the Taurat (Torah or the first five books of Moses), the Zaboor (Psalms of David), the Injeel (gospel message of Jesus Christ in the New Testament), and the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran supersedes the other books since it is the last and final revelation of Allah. 4. Prophets. Among the numerous prophets or messengers of Allah, the six greatest are Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. 5. Last Days. All people will be resurrected on the last day to be judged. Muslims will go to the Garden of Paradise, the Islamic heaven, and the rest will be tormented in hell. The Islamic heaven is a place of entertainment where men and their wives will be reclining in raised couches and shall have whatever they desire. Is there anything in these doctrines not correct or not clear? If so, please point it out and explain. Did the Lord God talk to His prophets? The Lord God of the Holy Bible created Adam, and out of Adam’s rib, Eve. When they sinned by disobeying God, God drove them out from the garden of Eden. God talked to Adam. If Adam is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible told Noah to build an ark for He would destroy all flesh because of man’s wickedness. In Genesis 6:18 (KJV), God said, “But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.” God spared these eight persons and the living things in the ark when God flooded the earth. God talked to Noah. If Noah is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible made a covenant with Abram (later called Abraham): “Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates” (Genesis 15:18, KJV). Notice that God said, “Unto thy seed.” Singular. Only one. Abraham had two children: Ishmael, the descendants of whom are Muhammad and the Arabs and the Muslims; and Isaac, the descendants of whom are the Jews and Jesus. Who is this seed that God was referring to? God talked to Abraham. If Abraham is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible made Moses to lead in the liberation of the Israelites from about 400 years of bondage in Egypt. God talked to Moses. If Moses is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” during Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:21) and in the transfiguration, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him” (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35). God said of this prophet Jesus, “hear ye him.” If Jesus is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why He is so? The Holy Bible does not mention the name Muhammad. He is supposedly the last and final prophet although God did not talk to him. The Qu’ran was revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him? If Muhammad is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? Is Allah of the Qu’ran and the Lord God of the Holy Bible one and the same? The peace of the true God reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ “The Internet is mightier than the sword.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadicalGnostic Posted February 17, 2007 #2 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Greetings. I feel that at least the account of Mohammed's mystical flight through the heavens is a genuine attempt by Mohammed to describe a sufi-type experience. In it there is truth from the Father of All. I've not dealt with much else in the Quran, but this account is most descriptive, imo. Peace, RadicalGnostic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 18, 2007 #3 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Greetings. I feel that at least the account of Mohammed's mystical flight through the heavens is a genuine attempt by Mohammed to describe a sufi-type experience. In it there is truth from the Father of All. I've not dealt with much else in the Quran, but this account is most descriptive, imo. The Holy Bible does not mention the name Muhammad. He is supposedly the last and final prophet although God did not talk to him. The Qu’ran was revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him? If Muhammad is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? Is Allah of the Qu’ran and the Lord God of the Holy Bible one and the same? Peace, RadicalGnostic I think thats a good question why God or Allah himself did not present himself in front of Muhammad PBUH on earth. According to islamic tradition God only spoke to Moses of all the prophets on earth directly. God on earth hasnt spoken directly to Noah Jesus and others. The theory some scholars put forward is that on earth man is too fragile to withstand or face God. I know a lot of people believe in God but no one knows what God looks like. It is higly unlikely God looks like a man. Moses was thought to have a brief glimpse of God and had syncope. Some people believe that Isra and Miraj was actually a dream. It is because such a trip is "physically impossible" I say it is possible atleast according to theoratical physics. Prophet Muhammad PBUH got on a mode of transportation (Buraq) that is suppose to travel at lightening speed. The Arabic word Burq means electricity. Things were accomplished in seconds or minutes in earth time whereas prophet Muhammad actually spent quite a bit of time with the prophets and God. According to Einstein theory of relativity such a phenomenon is physically possible. Any thoughts, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbradj Posted February 18, 2007 #4 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 18, 2007 #5 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 19, 2007 Author #6 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Dear Main Point and my Fellowmen, I think thats a good question why God or Allah himself did not present himself in front of Muhammad PBUH on earth. According to islamic tradition God only spoke to Moses of all the prophets on earth directly. God on earth hasnt spoken directly to Noah Jesus and others. The theory some scholars put forward is that on earth man is too fragile to withstand or face God. I know a lot of people believe in God but no one knows what God looks like. It is higly unlikely God looks like a man. Moses was thought to have a brief glimpse of God and had syncope. Some people believe that Isra and Miraj was actually a dream. It is because such a trip is "physically impossible" I say it is possible atleast according to theoratical physics. Prophet Muhammad PBUH got on a mode of transportation (Buraq) that is suppose to travel at lightening speed. The Arabic word Burq means electricity. Things were accomplished in seconds or minutes in earth time whereas prophet Muhammad actually spent quite a bit of time with the prophets and God. According to Einstein theory of relativity such a phenomenon is physically possible. Any thoughts, I understand that the Muslims believe in the Taurat (Torah or the first five books of Moses consisting of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) and Injeel (the gospel of Jesus Christ in the New Testament). Who are the great prophets or messengers of God according to Islam? Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. I have cited Genesis that showed God had directly talked to Adam, Noah and Abraham. God talked to Moses in the book of Exodus. And God said in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus is His "beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." God also advised us to "hear ye him" (meaning Jesus). If the Muslims believe in the Taurat and Injeel, then, it will accept that God really talked directly to these prophets or messengers. Why do you say then that God only talked to Moses? God did not talk directly to Muhammad. The Qu'ran was revealed to him by an angel named Jibreel (Gabriel). My questions are: Why did God not talk directly to Muhammad, especially in giving such very important revelations? Why through an angel? Is the angel really the angel "Gabriel" or an angel who posed as Gabriel? We know that Gabriel is an archangel of God. That is why Christians are warned about spirits. Preferably, avoid them. I say, are all spirits evil that we have to avoid ALL of them? Should we not be more scrutinizing to check if the spirit is from God or not? The grace of peace reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusaer888/ "The Internet is mightier than the sword." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 22, 2007 Author #7 Share Posted February 22, 2007 My Dear Fellowmen, Why does Allah exhort his believers to kill the unbelievers? Can the true God not do the killing Himself? Just think of this: the true God told Moses to tell the Pharaoh on what God would do if he (the Pharaoh) would not release the children of Israel from Egypt. He gave nine warnings of plagues. The Pharaoh did not heed each warning. And the prophecies were fulfilled as foretold. On the tenth and last warning, Moses told the Pharaoh of what God would do. Still he would not let them go. So as stated in Exodus 12:29: “And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the first-born of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the first-born of cattle.” This is the true God who did this. He can distinguish the difference between the Egyptians and the children of Israel. He did it at the appointed time. The prophecy was fulfilled. And the children of Israel were sent out of Egypt in haste; “for they (the Egyptians) said, We be all dead men.” (Exodus 12:33) The Egyptians were afraid that something worse than that could befall on them by the God of the Israelites. This is why the Jews until this time, for more than 3000 years, are still celebrating the Passover despite their exile to Babylon, conquest by foreign invaders, dispersal all over the world, extermination in the holocaust. This festival is the living proof that the passing over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt happened thousands of years ago. If Allah were the true God, he would not exhort his believers to kill the unbelievers for the true God can do it Himself. And the true God can be selective, and can kill in an instant. Did it take the whole night to kill all the first-born Egyptians? Were the non-first-born Egyptians killed? Were the children of Israel passed over? That is why my question in the original post: Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him (Muhammad)? And in the next post: Why did God not talk directly to Muhammad, especially in giving such very important revelations? Why through an angel? Is the angel really the angel "Gabriel" or an angel who posed as Gabriel? Of all the great prophets or messengers of Allah, the true God talked directly to them. To Muhammad, He did not. Your opinion, please. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ “The Internet is mightier than the sword.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted February 22, 2007 #8 Share Posted February 22, 2007 The question can also be ask is the God of Abraham the true God or is he a Jin. In my belief system there are many Gods and Goddesses to me they are all Gods and there is no one true God. Blessing of the Tuatha Dé Danann, Peace Crusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanph Posted February 22, 2007 #9 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Is the Qu'ran from the true God? The Koran is just another holy text written by men in a vain attempt to understand the workings of the world and beyond. In this case, it is the work of an unstable individual who heard voices telling him to memorize the word of God. Sounds eerily like another individual responsible for Christianity--Paul! Two peas in a pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 22, 2007 #10 Share Posted February 22, 2007 My Dear Fellowmen, Why does Allah exhort his believers to kill the unbelievers? Can the true God not do the killing Himself? Just think of this: the true God told Moses to tell the Pharaoh on what God would do if he (the Pharaoh) would not release the children of Israel from Egypt. He gave nine warnings of plagues. The Pharaoh did not heed each warning. And the prophecies were fulfilled as foretold. On the tenth and last warning, Moses told the Pharaoh of what God would do. Still he would not let them go. So as stated in Exodus 12:29: “And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the first-born in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the first-born of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the first-born of cattle.” This is the true God who did this. He can distinguish the difference between the Egyptians and the children of Israel. He did it at the appointed time. The prophecy was fulfilled. And the children of Israel were sent out of Egypt in haste; “for they (the Egyptians) said, We be all dead men.” (Exodus 12:33) The Egyptians were afraid that something worse than that could befall on them by the God of the Israelites. This is why the Jews until this time, for more than 3000 years, are still celebrating the Passover despite their exile to Babylon, conquest by foreign invaders, dispersal all over the world, extermination in the holocaust. This festival is the living proof that the passing over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt happened thousands of years ago. If Allah were the true God, he would not exhort his believers to kill the unbelievers for the true God can do it Himself. And the true God can be selective, and can kill in an instant. Did it take the whole night to kill all the first-born Egyptians? Were the non-first-born Egyptians killed? Were the children of Israel passed over? That is why my question in the original post: Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him (Muhammad)? And in the next post: Why did God not talk directly to Muhammad, especially in giving such very important revelations? Why through an angel? Is the angel really the angel "Gabriel" or an angel who posed as Gabriel? Of all the great prophets or messengers of Allah, the true God talked directly to them. To Muhammad, He did not. Your opinion, please. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ “The Internet is mightier than the sword.” Hi Peace Crusader You have a lot of questions about islam Muslims consider Quran to be Gods word so it has final say in religious maters. Muslims cannot change quranic verses. Lets look at the Quran. If any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. [Qur'an 5:32] And made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). [Qur'an 49:13] The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous.. [Qur'an 42:42] It is He Who has made the earth manageable for you, so traverse ye through its tracts and enjoy of the Sustenance which He furnishes. [Qur'an 67:15] God commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition. [Qur'an 16:90] Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. [Qur'an 109:6] Was not the earth of God spacious that ye could have migrated therein? [Qur'an 4:97] Now where did you hear Quran orders people to kill indiscriminately.??? Here are some more verses. You or anyone visiting this thread can look up Quran for more verses if interested its an open book. Permission (to fight) is given to those who are being attacked, because they have been wronged. And surely God measures out help for them. - Surah al-Hajj verse 39 And what is with you that you do not fight in the path of God and (in the path) of the oppressed of men and women and children, those who say "Our Sustainer, take us out from this city, its people are wrongdoers, and decree for us a protector, and decree for us a helper". - Surah an-Nisa verse 75 God does not forbid that you do good and make justice for those who do not fight you in the religion or drive you out from your homes. Indeed, God loves those who do justice. God only forbids your friendship with those who fight you in the religion and drive you out from your homes and back those who drive you out. And who befriends them, such are wrongdoers. - Surah al-Mumtahana verses 8-9 When must Muslims seek peace? Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not aggress. Surely God does not love the aggressors. And fight them where you come upon them, and send them out from where they have sent you out, for persecution is a worse thing than fighting. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) unless they fight you there, but if they fight you, then fight them back. That is the reward of the rejectors. Then if they cease, so God is All-Forgiving, Gentle. And fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for God. But if they cease, so let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. - Surah al-Baqarat verses 190-193 And if they incline to peace, so you must incline to it. And trust in God, for He hears and knows all. - Surah al-Anfal verse 61 Surely those who have faith and who emigrated and strove with their wealth and their souls in the path of God, and those who sheltered them and helped, such, they are protecting friends of one another. And those who have faith but they did not emigrate, you do not have any duty of protection over them until they emigrate. But if they seek your help in the religion, then it is on you to help them except against a people with whom you have a treaty. And God sees all that you work. - Surah al-Anfal verse 72 Do not fight those who join a folk with whom you have a treaty, or they come to you with their breasts constricted against fighting you or fighting their own folk. And if only God had willed, He could have given them an authority over you so they would have fought you. So if they stand aloof and do not fight you, and they speak a word of peace, then God has not given you a way against them. - Surah an-Nisa verse 90 O you, those who have faith, when you go out to fight in the path of God, make things clear and do not say to someone who gives you peace, "You are not a believer," - you coveting the pleasures of the life of the world, and with God is abundant reward. You were the same as that before, then God was gracious to you. So make it clear. Surely God is aware of what you do. - Surah an-Nisa verse 94 What i can tell you is there is a myth being spread about by war mongerers and malicious people that islam teaches hate. Examine islams history closely. Islam has always been a religion of the underdog. It has been the victim of aggression Just look back From its early creation Muslims have been prosecuted by following Pagans of Arabia The Byzantines The Mongols The so called christian crusaders Spanish inquisition More recently The serbians The israelis The russians I live in america. I am very disgusted to hear all the false propaganda in the media. Somehow if there is a criminal who is muslim .............. islam gets the blame. Its comparable to Hitler committed all those crime (He was catholic) All the catholic community should be blamed. Its a very dangerous game media in the west is playing. I think people should stand up and question some of the baseless stories that are being aired. People with an inquisitive mind like the ones that visit these forums should do a study more in depth than the seemingly "real" news broadcasted on channels such as foxnews or the 700 club(I think thats the program run by pat roberts the christian fundamentalist guy) Islam is a religion of peace harmony and mutual existence. One of the solutions i propose for the ongoing israeli palestinian conflict is Let there be no boundries let the muslims jews and christians coexist in the same country like they had done for the last >1000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanph Posted February 22, 2007 #11 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Muslims consider Quran to be Gods word so it has final say in religious maters. Muslims cannot change quranic verses. Lets look at the Quran.That's what the Muslim community wants to think, but it isn't so. How do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. Apparent support for their conclusions came from finds made during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen, where labourers working in the roof discovered fragments of Korans that are among the oldest in existence. German scholars who studied the manuscripts discovered that some of the Koranic writing diverges from the authorised version, which by tradition is considered the pure, unadulterated word of God. What's more, some of the writing appears to have been inscribed over earlier, "rubbed-out" versions of the text. This editing supports the belief of Wansbrough and his pupils that the Koran as we know it does not date from the time of Mohammad. Andrew Rippin, professor of Islamic history at the University of Victoria in Canada, and the author of a revisionist history of Islam published by Routledge, said: "The Sana'a manuscripts [are] part of the process of filling in the holes in our knowledge of what might have happened." AND: Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam's first two centuries -- they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What's more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.--January 1999 The Atlantic Monthly Let there be no boundries let the muslims jews and christians coexist in the same country like they had done for the last >1000 years. :clap: :tsu: Especially, since, they are all genetically related--evolved out of Canannite society! Sean Edited February 22, 2007 by seanph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Greenman Posted February 22, 2007 #12 Share Posted February 22, 2007 One of the solutions i propose for the ongoing israeli palestinian conflict is Let there be no boundries let the muslims jews and christians coexist in the same country like they had done for the last >1000 years. I concur, and a free and secular government which represents all; the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians, the Buddhists, the Pagans, the Atheists.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 22, 2007 #13 Share Posted February 22, 2007 That's what the Muslim community wants to think, but it isn't so. How do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. Apparent support for their conclusions came from finds made during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen, where labourers working in the roof discovered fragments of Korans that are among the oldest in existence. German scholars who studied the manuscripts discovered that some of the Koranic writing diverges from the authorised version, which by tradition is considered the pure, unadulterated word of God. What's more, some of the writing appears to have been inscribed over earlier, "rubbed-out" versions of the text. This editing supports the belief of Wansbrough and his pupils that the Koran as we know it does not date from the time of Mohammad. Andrew Rippin, professor of Islamic history at the University of Victoria in Canada, and the author of a revisionist history of Islam published by Routledge, said: "The Sana'a manuscripts [are] part of the process of filling in the holes in our knowledge of what might have happened." AND: Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam's first two centuries -- they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What's more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.--January 1999 The Atlantic Monthly Sean Like i said in another thread seanph you need to stop watching daytime shows like Jerry Springer. If your are genuinely interested in these topics stop getting your information from tabloids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanph Posted February 22, 2007 #14 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) Ad hoc. You are evading the question and have made this ridiculous comment before. The above information is well known amongst academics. Of course, you are completely oblivious to such things, for your dabblings include Islamic apologetics and coloring books. Now, please respond to the question. How do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. Edited February 22, 2007 by seanph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 22, 2007 #15 Share Posted February 22, 2007 My Dear Fellowmen, All Muslims are expected to believe the main doctrines of Islam consisting of five articles of faith. These are: 1. God. His name is Allah and is the supreme being of all. He is uncreated, without beginning or end. He created all. 2. Angels. Every person has two angels; one records his good deeds, and the other, his bad deeds. Jibreel (Gabriel) is the angel who brought the revelation of the Qu’ran to Muhammad. 3. Scripture. The four inspired books in Islam are the Taurat (Torah or the first five books of Moses), the Zaboor (Psalms of David), the Injeel (gospel message of Jesus Christ in the New Testament), and the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran supersedes the other books since it is the last and final revelation of Allah. 4. Prophets. Among the numerous prophets or messengers of Allah, the six greatest are Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. 5. Last Days. All people will be resurrected on the last day to be judged. Muslims will go to the Garden of Paradise, the Islamic heaven, and the rest will be tormented in hell. The Islamic heaven is a place of entertainment where men and their wives will be reclining in raised couches and shall have whatever they desire. Is there anything in these doctrines not correct or not clear? If so, please point it out and explain. Did the Lord God talk to His prophets? The Lord God of the Holy Bible created Adam, and out of Adam’s rib, Eve. When they sinned by disobeying God, God drove them out from the garden of Eden. God talked to Adam. If Adam is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible told Noah to build an ark for He would destroy all flesh because of man’s wickedness. In Genesis 6:18 (KJV), God said, “But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.” God spared these eight persons and the living things in the ark when God flooded the earth. God talked to Noah. If Noah is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible made a covenant with Abram (later called Abraham): “Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates” (Genesis 15:18, KJV). Notice that God said, “Unto thy seed.” Singular. Only one. Abraham had two children: Ishmael, the descendants of whom are Muhammad and the Arabs and the Muslims; and Isaac, the descendants of whom are the Jews and Jesus. Who is this seed that God was referring to? God talked to Abraham. If Abraham is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible made Moses to lead in the liberation of the Israelites from about 400 years of bondage in Egypt. God talked to Moses. If Moses is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? The Lord God of the Holy Bible said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” during Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:21) and in the transfiguration, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him” (Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7, Luke 9:35). God said of this prophet Jesus, “hear ye him.” If Jesus is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why He is so? The Holy Bible does not mention the name Muhammad. He is supposedly the last and final prophet although God did not talk to him. The Qu’ran was revealed to him by the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). Why is it that it is not God who directly reveal the Qu’ran to him? If Muhammad is one of the greatest prophets or messengers of Allah, could you please tell us why he is so? Is Allah of the Qu’ran and the Lord God of the Holy Bible one and the same? The peace of the true God reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ “The Internet is mightier than the sword.” Hi PeaceCrusader The questions you have posted demand a detailed and thorough study of islam. They are very good questions and warrant a detailed explanation. My advice to you is to speak to a knowledgable muslim directly. Most muslims infact may not be able to answer your questions. I dont know which country you live in, but i am sure you will be able to find someone. To sum up an answer you pretty much are accurate as to what muslims believe. God created man. First man created was Adam. Adam and eve were sent to earth. Here the progeny of Adam flourished. God would send prophets to mankind repeatedly. The last prophet sent is Muhammad PBUH. God is one and one only there is no equal. Man shouldnt worship other humans or idols or images. All man is created equal. Man improves and better himself by doing good deeds. Muhammad PBUH did speak to God directly during Isra and Mi'raj If you have any specific questions that dont require detailed explanation i would love to try to answer them Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brave_new_world Posted February 22, 2007 #16 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I love the Koran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanph Posted February 22, 2007 #17 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Please answer my question Mainpoint ... How do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquidmetal Posted February 22, 2007 #18 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Please answer my question Mainpoint ... How do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. There is none of any existence of versions or authorized versions of the Quran period till the end of eternity. The One and only God promised the Pureness of the Quran. The Quran can not and shall not be changed period. The Quran is the last revelation and It is in a form of Mujizat. It reveals the changes thatmankind made or wrong interpretation in the Torah, Zabur, Injeel and the rest of the 100 Kitabs or books of revelations given to the prophets in period of their times. The Quran reveals the truth from now and shall stand as the word of God and path toward God. Any written writings or intepretations that differ from the meaning or message in the Quran is void and to avoid. Anyone can change the words or interpret the meaning of the Quran or even tarnish or flush and burn for one's selfishness; because it is written or printed on paper. But the Mukmin and Mukminat and those who read and witnessed shall know that it has been changed or misinterpret. Because the words in the Quran are not created by man but it is the words of God. No creations could construct a single word or add a single meaning to the Quran. And to know this, you have to be a Muslim; as I would not reveal because it is of no use to you or to anybody who wants to find fault with it's Pureness. At the moment, only interpretations that mankind dare to reveal to deceit or to gain; but true Muslims know the intentions and those who being deceitful suffer the consequences amounts to hell. The only path to take is to give yourself a chance to read the Quran with an open heart. Do not be afraid, negative or coparative; just be a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanph Posted February 23, 2007 #19 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Then how do you explain fragments of the Koran found at the Great Mosque of Sana'a? These fragments differ from the authorized version. Apparent support for their conclusions came from finds made during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a in Yemen, where labourers working in the roof discovered fragments of Korans that are among the oldest in existence. German scholars who studied the manuscripts discovered that some of the Koranic writing diverges from the authorised version, which by tradition is considered the pure, unadulterated word of God. What's more, some of the writing appears to have been inscribed over earlier, "rubbed-out" versions of the text. This editing supports the belief of Wansbrough and his pupils that the Koran as we know it does not date from the time of Mohammad. Andrew Rippin, professor of Islamic history at the University of Victoria in Canada, and the author of a revisionist history of Islam published by Routledge, said: "The Sana'a manuscripts [are] part of the process of filling in the holes in our knowledge of what might have happened." AND: Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam's first two centuries -- they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What's more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.--January 1999 The Atlantic Monthly The only path to take is to give yourself a chance to read the Quran with an open heart. Do not be afraid, negative or coparative; just be a person. I am. Not impressed even slightly. Resembles other religious texts. Sean Edited February 23, 2007 by seanph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 24, 2007 Author #20 Share Posted February 24, 2007 My Dear Fellowmen, Muhammad is a descendant of Abraham through Ishmael. Ishmael is the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian handmaid of Sarah, wife of Abraham. Since Sarai (later called Sarah) did not have a child with Abram (later called Abraham), Sarai gave Hagar to Abram to be his wife. Abram went in to Hagar and she conceived. When Hagar saw that she had conceived, she despised in her eyes her mistress, Sarai. Sarai was 76 years old and Abram, 85. Because of Hagar’s action, Sarai dealt hardly with her. Not being able to withstand Sarai’s treatment to her, she fled. An angel of the Lord found Hagar and advised her to return to her mistress and to submit herself under her hands. The angel told her that her child will multiply exceedingly. She would name the child, Ishmael, “because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” (Genesis 16) Notice that it was not the Lord God who talked to Hagar directly but an angel of the Lord. When Abram was 99 years old and Sarai, 90, the Lord appeared to Abram and told him, “I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.” God established an everlasting covenant with him and promised that he would multiply him exceedingly, making him a father of many nations. And God told him that from then on, his name would be Abraham and his wife, Sarah. God told Abraham (Genesis 17:8), “And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” Please note that “thy seed” is singular, only one. God told Abraham that He will give him and Sarah a son who would be named Isaac. Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, because he was wondering how he, a 99-year-old man and his 90-year-old wife could still have a child. God assured Abraham that his wife Sarah shall indeed bear him a son to whom God established His everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. This seed is Isaac who God said, “for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.” (Genesis 17:21, 21:12) Please note that it was the Lord God Himself who talked to Abraham directly. To which of Abraham’s two seeds, Ishmael and Isaac, did God establish His everlasting covenant? The descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs, the Muslims, and Muhammad. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews and Jesus. God promised to the descendants of Isaac the land of Canaan, now known as Israel, for an everlasting possession. Why then do the Muslims want to drive the Israelites out of Israel and into the Mediterranean Sea? Why do the Muslims hate Israel so much? Why don’t we listen to God’s decision? In the first place, who owns that land? Even us, who owns us? If we want peace to reign in this world, let us listen and submit ourselves to the true God and follow His commandments. Quotations are from the Holy Bible, King James Version. The reign of peace of the true God be with us now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ “The Internet is mightier than the sword.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 24, 2007 Author #21 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Dear Darkwind and my Fellowmen, The question can also be ask is the God of Abraham the true God or is he a Jin. In my belief system there are many Gods and Goddesses to me they are all Gods and there is no one true God. Blessing of the Tuatha Dé Danann, Peace Crusader Do you think that it was not the true God who talked to Abraham? Do you think he is a Jinn? A Jinn is a fallen angel, one who rebelled against God and joined Luz Belle (the archangel's name in Heaven who later became to be known as Lucifer, or Al Shaytan, the devil, as the Muslims call this archangel). I believe that it was the true God who talked to Abraham. How old was he when God told him that he would bear a son? He was 99 years old! And how old was his wife Sarah? She was 90 years old! Abraham "fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is a hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?" (Genesis 17:17) Sarah also laughed when she heard this, as what Genesis 18:12 states, "Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" In Genesis 18:14, it states: "Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son." Is there anything impossible for the true God? Even old people, like Abraham and Sarah, bore a son, as God promised. Can any god do such thing? Abraham and Sarah laughed for their unbelief, but God, because He is the true and almighty God, He did what He said He would do. Who is Tuatha Dé Danann? Is he one of the gods and goddesses? It's my first time to hear this name. Don't you think that there is only one true God and the rest are false gods? That true God talked to Abraham. Thanks, anyway, for the blessing. May the true God bless you always, Darkwind. Tell us, logically, without any holy scripture, how can you determine whether a god is true or false? The peace of the true God reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ "The Internet is mightier than the sword." Edited February 24, 2007 by Peace Crusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 24, 2007 Author #22 Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Dear Liquidmetal and my Fellowmen, There is none of any existence of versions or authorized versions of the Quran period till the end of eternity. The One and only God promised the Pureness of the Quran. The Quran can not and shall not be changed period. The Quran is the last revelation and It is in a form of Mujizat. It reveals the changes thatmankind made or wrong interpretation in the Torah, Zabur, Injeel and the rest of the 100 Kitabs or books of revelations given to the prophets in period of their times. The Quran reveals the truth from now and shall stand as the word of God and path toward God. Any written writings or intepretations that differ from the meaning or message in the Quran is void and to avoid. Anyone can change the words or interpret the meaning of the Quran or even tarnish or flush and burn for one's selfishness; because it is written or printed on paper. But the Mukmin and Mukminat and those who read and witnessed shall know that it has been changed or misinterpret. Because the words in the Quran are not created by man but it is the words of God. No creations could construct a single word or add a single meaning to the Quran. And to know this, you have to be a Muslim; as I would not reveal because it is of no use to you or to anybody who wants to find fault with it's Pureness. At the moment, only interpretations that mankind dare to reveal to deceit or to gain; but true Muslims know the intentions and those who being deceitful suffer the consequences amounts to hell. The only path to take is to give yourself a chance to read the Quran with an open heart. Do not be afraid, negative or coparative; just be a person. I believe you are a Muslim. I have raised the questions because I found that the Qu'ran was revealed to Muhammad by an angel and not from God Himself directly. Why? For such a very important revelation, why is it that it is not God Himself who made the revelation? Why through an angel? Muslims believe in angels. There are good and evil angels. We know that angel Gabriel is from God. He was the one who announced to Mary that she would have a son to be named Jesus (Luke 1:26-38). Do you just accept that the angel who revealed the Qu'ran to Muhammad the angel Gabriel? How about if that angel is just an impostor, one who posed as Gabriel? How about if he is a Jinn? Have you asked these questions to yourself? I was born to Roman Catholic parents, and was baptized in the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). But when I grew up, I raised questions. Now, I do not consider myself as straight Roman Catholic. I am just a non-denominational Christian, a plain follower of Jesus Christ. I believe that belonging to the RCC will not save me. My salvation depends upon my own self. So I searched for the truth. And I found it in Jesus Christ. Not in an organized religious group or denomination. The grace of peace reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ "The Internet is mightier than the sword." Edited February 24, 2007 by Peace Crusader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Crusader Posted February 24, 2007 Author #23 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Dear Main Point and my Fellowmen, Hi PeaceCrusader The questions you have posted demand a detailed and thorough study of islam. They are very good questions and warrant a detailed explanation. My advice to you is to speak to a knowledgable muslim directly. Most muslims infact may not be able to answer your questions. I dont know which country you live in, but i am sure you will be able to find someone. To sum up an answer you pretty much are accurate as to what muslims believe. God created man. First man created was Adam. Adam and eve were sent to earth. Here the progeny of Adam flourished. God would send prophets to mankind repeatedly. The last prophet sent is Muhammad PBUH. God is one and one only there is no equal. Man shouldnt worship other humans or idols or images. All man is created equal. Man improves and better himself by doing good deeds. Muhammad PBUH did speak to God directly during Isra and Mi'raj If you have any specific questions that dont require detailed explanation i would love to try to answer them Regards Thank you for your reply and advice to speak to a knowledgeable Muslim. Since you are a Muslim and you may know your Imam and some Islamic scholars, could you please ask the questions to them. You may ask them to post their answers here or by yourself in their behalf. My questions are just basic to the beliefs of Islam. Therefore, I would expect that ordinary Muslims may be able to answer them. However, as you suggested, people who are more knowledgeable about the faith may be the best people to approach to enlighten us about the matter. The grace of peace reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ "The Internet is mightier than the sword." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainpoint Posted February 24, 2007 #24 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Dear Main Point and my Fellowmen, Thank you for your reply and advice to speak to a knowledgeable Muslim. Since you are a Muslim and you may know your Imam and some Islamic scholars, could you please ask the questions to them. You may ask them to post their answers here or by yourself in their behalf. My questions are just basic to the beliefs of Islam. Therefore, I would expect that ordinary Muslims may be able to answer them. However, as you suggested, people who are more knowledgeable about the faith may be the best people to approach to enlighten us about the matter. The grace of peace reign in our hearts now and forever. With love, your brother in Jesus, Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo Motto: pro aris et focis http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/ "The Internet is mightier than the sword." Let me get your question straight. You are asking why Quran was revealed to Muhammad PBUH through an angel not directly by God himself? Is that the question? On another note you have a very serious and deep misconception but i have seen it specially amongst devout christians who may not know world history that well. The current country of Israel is not the nation of israel mentioned in the holy books. The natives are europeans who were either forced to migrate by other europeans or they have been attracted by the wealthy israelis to boost their jewish numbers. The jews you call natives of israel are actually palestinians they converted to islam and christianity long time ago. And they have been living on this land for 2000 years. Now they are being driven out by foreigners (mostly european jews).!!!!!! Like i posted earlier it should be a free country jews shouldnt be allowed to force apartheid on christians muslims or followers of other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Haisook Posted February 24, 2007 #25 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Let me get your question straight. You are asking why Quran was revealed to Muhammad PBUH through an angel not directly by God himself? Is that the question? On another note you have a very serious and deep misconception but i have seen it specially amongst devout christians who may not know world history that well. The current country of Israel is not the nation of israel mentioned in the holy books. The natives are europeans who were either forced to migrate by other europeans or they have been attracted by the wealthy israelis to boost their jewish numbers. The jews you call natives of israel are actually palestinians they converted to islam and christianity long time ago. And they have been living on this land for 2000 years. Now they are being driven out by foreigners (mostly european jews).!!!!!! Like i posted earlier it should be a free country jews shouldnt be allowed to force apartheid on christians muslims or followers of other religions. I second that. Israel is not a legal country in the first place. They are driving the Palestinians out of their own land in a very terrible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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