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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#9106    The Puzzler

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:32 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 December 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

Well, as long as you don't base that on the "ra" right after "vrlovande" :

th nam_er tha sknsta sinar finna nd mag_
yara.vrlovande ra ky mith golden horna sa
hja_ra thrvch vs folk fata ddon.fterdam.
sina lr vtbrda. men sin ljuda ddon


That "ra" is a dative case. In the sentence I quoted it is like "promised to them".

And if you enlarge the image I posted, you will see a faint connecting underscore between 'vrlovande' and 'ra', like "vrlovande_ra".


.
No, the golden horns are enough, plus that's what they'd be, the Sun cow or Sun bull, as worshipped in Egypt. Northern Europe never had sun bulls or cows. They would have been introduced.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
Flagpole Sitta - Harvey Danger

#9107    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:36 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 December 2011 - 02:32 PM, said:

No, the golden horns are enough, plus that's what they'd be, the Sun cow or Sun bull, as worshipped in Egypt. Northern Europe never had sun bulls or cows. They would have been introduced.

You introduce something that's not to be found anywhere in the OLB.

Northern Europe may never have had sun bulls/cows, and that's no problem for they do not show up anywhere in the OLB.


#9108    The Puzzler

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:43 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 December 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

You introduce something that's not to be found anywhere in the OLB.

Northern Europe may never have had sun bulls/cows, and that's no problem for they do not show up anywhere in the OLB.
Cows with golden horns. That IS in the OLB. ky mith golden horna.

The Magyar are promising them everything for the worship of the Solar cow/bull. They won't actually receive anything. They will get nothing. To people against this, the promise is baseless.

I don't even want to bog down with the ky's. That's my opinion.

"The agony and the irony, they're killing me"
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#9109    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:53 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 29 December 2011 - 02:43 PM, said:

Cows with golden horns. That IS in the OLB. ky mith golden horna.

The Magyar are promising them everything for the worship of the Solar cow/bull. They won't actually receive anything. They will get nothing. To people against this, the promise is baseless.

I don't even want to bog down with the ky's. That's my opinion.

I know there are cows with golden horns in the OLB, but not your 'sun/solar cows/bulls'.

You introduce 'sun/solar' because you want a link to ancient Egypt (Ra) or Greece/Mycene.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 02:54 PM.


#9110    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:55 PM

The Golden Horns
Amongst the most famous finds from Danish prehistory are the Golden Horns. These are not only unique; their story has also been a very dramatic one. The Golden Horns were made around the year 400 AD and were decorated with both Nordic and Roman motifs. The combined weight of the horns was nearly 7 kg. The long horn was found in 1639 at Gallehus, near Møgeltønder, in Southern Jutland. A few metres away the short horn was found in 1734. This bore the runic inscription ekhlewagastiR : holtijaR : horna : tawido, in English “I Lægæst, son of Holt (or “from Holt”) made the horn”. Both horns were stolen and melted down in 1802. The appearance of the horns is known solely from drawings dating to the 17th and 18th centuries. Therefore many details are uncertain. The copies made in 1859-60 are too large, but presumably show the proper shape, while the twisted set from the 1970s have the right size
.

http://oldtiden.natm...ne/language/uk/

=

Posted Image

19th-century electrotypes of two gold horns from Gallehus, near Tønder, southern Jutland, Denmark
The originals were Germanic, early 5th century AD

The gold horns of which these are reproductions were a spectacular symbol of Denmark's ancient past. Their runic inscriptions demonstrated to scholars of the seventeenth and eighteenth century that the early peoples of northern Europe had their own form of writing and could therefore be considered a civilized society.

The horns may have been either musical instruments or drinking horns, and were probably buried as votive offerings or loot. Each weighed over 3 kg. The first (complete) horn, was found in 1639 and sent to Ole Worm (1588-1654), professor of humanities and medicine in Copenhagen, Denmark. Worm had a famous collection of natural and artificial curiosities and was also a scholar of runic inscriptions. The second horn was found in 1734.

Sadly, both horns were stolen from the Danish royal collections in 1802 and were melted down by the thief. But good engravings had been made, which allowed replicas to be made in 1861. These electrotype copies were made from the replicas.

The runes on the short horn are in an early Germanic dialect. They read 'ek hlewagastiz holtingaz horna tawido', which translates as 'I, Hlewagastiz, son of Holt, made the horn'. The enigmatic animal, human and geometric designs on the horns have not been explained, although they probably represent scenes from religious rituals, seasonal festivals or myths
.

http://www.britishmu...e_gallehus.aspx


+++

More:

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://www.search.co...rns_of_Gallehus

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 03:12 PM.


#9111    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:02 PM

View PostKnul, on 29 December 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

I have pointed out, that the original eastern Frisian territory reached as far as Letland and Lithouwen, but the lands beyond the Weser and Denmark got lost to the Fins and Magyars. The same happened in the western territory: the original western Frisian territory reached as far as Cadiz, but got lost to the Gauls, initially till the Seine and later to the Schelde/Sincfal.

It's not about the Fryan territory, it's about the size/location of East Flyland.

Helgoland (where you said Wodin was born) is in North Friesland.

According to this map East FRIESland did indeed stretch out to the Weser. But East FRIESland is not East FLYland.

Posted Image

==

And where did you point out about Latvia and Lithuania? I think that was me, lol : Frisische Haff, and my wordplay with "Prussian" (Phruisi > Frisii > Parisii > and so on. You also might want to search this thread for "Pruteni"). Well, Puzz certainly posted a lot too about the Baltic area.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 04:51 PM.


#9112    The Puzzler

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:07 PM

Baldr is not actually the Sun,(that Frya births) imo, he seems to be the day (of the Solstice). His name can mean this too, in the form of bright, white, day:
In Anglo-Saxon tradition, the son of Woden is called not Bealdor but Bldg, Beldeg, which shows association with "day", possibly with Day personified as a deity which, Grimm points out, would agree with the meaning "shining one, white one, a god" derived from the meaning of Baltic baltas, further adducing Slavic Belobog and German Berhta.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldr

His wife is Nanna, a mortal, which the story of Baldr and Nanna seems to align with one I know about Helios seducing Clymene (Phaethons mother) ie; spies her bathing naked and falls in absolute love with her beauty.

For her beauty Helios pined, Helios who spins round the twelvemonth lichtgang, and travels the sevenzone circuit [the zodiac] garland-wise - Helios dispenser of fire was afflicted with another fire! The torch of love was stronger than the blaze of his car and the shining of his rays, when over the bend of the reddened Okeanos as he bathed his fiery form in the eastern waters, he beheld the maiden close by the way, while she swam naked and sported in her fathers waves. Her body gleamed in her bath, she was one like the full Moon (Mene) reflected in the evening waters, when she has filled the compass of her twin horns with light.
http://www.theoi.com...n/Phaethon.html

Posted Image
Baldr spies Nanna bathing naked.

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#9113    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:52 PM

Menno, here's something about the Prussians (and then click on the little arrow left of my username of my quoted post, and you will come to the page where this post is from, and... please read what went on before and after that post)

View PostAbramelin, on 16 April 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The thing with the Prussians is this:

-1- they had developed their own script (like the Frya people);
-2- they were known under many names (like the Frya people);
-3- they traded with Greece, Rome, Scandinavia and England (like the Frya people);
-4- they were 'most humane people' (like the Frya people);
-5- they originally had a female pantheon (3 goddesses) (close to what the Frya people believed in);
-6- they were a pre-Baltic tribe, and later one of those Baltic tribes: "The Balts entered history in the early 2nd millennium BC" (like the Frya people)
-7- before their language shifted to a Finno-Ugric language, they spoke a Pretonic (PrUtonic) language (according to Tacitus) or a language similar to what the Old Frisians, and of course, the Old English spoke.

Makes one think, eh?


.................Pharsii?? Pharismanes??
......................^
......................^
Frisians << Phruisians >> Prussians
......................V
......................V
.................Parisii


.

And I should have added Ptolemy's Phiraisoi to the diagram: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firaesi

If you think about this lego-etymology for a while then someone simply wanted to 'own' the areas occupied by the peoples in the diagram, and then we get countries like: Old Prussia (or the south coast of the Baltic), northern France (area around the river Seine) and England (both inhabited by the Parisii), Persia (Pharsi), Frisia, southern Sweden (the Phiraisoi).

According to standard history, the Frisians came from southern (1750 BC) Sweden and Denmark, and then migrated to other areas to the south, west and east.

Posted Image
Origins of the Frisians (1750 B.C. - 700 B.C.).

http://www.boudicca.de/frisian1.htm

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 06:14 PM.


#9114    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:36 PM

Puzz, I am lost again: what are you trying to prove with your post about Balder?

There is no Balder or Nanna or any name similar to be found anywhere in the OLB.

I have said that someone or some people have been cherry-picking from ancient Frisian, Greek and Roman legends.

But I am quite sure they left out the really mythical things, just to make their fabricated story sound sane and believable.


#9115    Otharus

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:30 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 29 December 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:

I have said that someone or some people have been cherry-picking from ancient Frisian, Greek and Roman legends.

But I am quite sure they left out the really mythical things, just to make their fabricated story sound sane and believable.
Many things that were considered utterly insane and unbelievable by most 19th century experts, are actually quite plausible for us nowadays...

Edited by Otharus, 29 December 2011 - 07:31 PM.


#9116    Knul

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 07:43 PM

OLB contains descriptions of the Frisian reign before and after the 'aerge tid'. From this text I understand, that the Frisians in the earliest times reigned over the coastal areas from the Baltic Sea in the East to the Mediterranean in the West and occupied the Rhine area from north to south. East-West should be interpreted as shown on the world map of Ptolemaeus. The 'aerge tid' caused the shrinkage of the Frisian territory to Weser till Sincfal (which is the territory usually indicated as the mediaeval Seven Seelands. The OLB refers to a preceding period of time (Celts) and speaks of Flyland, divided into five counties. At the end of this period Friso founded his Frisian kingdom. We have discussed this before, but it did not convince me, that the Frisian territory reached only from the Baltic Sea to the Middle sea (Leeuwarden), because all territory from Middelsea (Leeuwarden) to Sincfal was left out by Abramelin, which has been described in the enumerated counties (Westflyland, Southflyland, Seven Seelanden (here the present province of Zeeland).


Texts

Êr thêre aerge tid kêm was vs lând thaet skênnéste in wr.alda. Svnne rês hager aend thêr was sjelden frost. Anda bâma aend trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send. Among tha gaers-sêdum hedon wi navt alena kêren, ljaver aend blyde, men âk swete thêr lik gold blikte aend thaet maen vndera svnnastrêla bakja kvste. Jêron ne wrde navt ne telath, hwand thaet êne jêr was alsa blyd as et ôthera. An tha êne side wrdon wi thrvch Wr.aldas sê hisloten, hwêrvp nên folk buta vs navt fara ne mochte nach kvnde. Anda ôre side wrden wi thrvch thaet brêde Twisklând vmtunad, hwêr thrvch thaet Findas folk navt kvma ne thvradon, fon ovira tichta walda aend ovir it wilde kwik. By morne paldon wi ovir it uter ende thes aster-sê, by êvind an thene  middelsê, alsa wi buta tha littiga wel twelif grâta swete rinstrama hêdon, vs thrvch Wr.alda jêven vmb vs lând elte to haldane aend vmb us wigandlik folk tha wêi to wisana nêi sina sê. Tha owira thissar rin strama wrdon tomet algadur thrvch vs folk bisêton, âk tha fjelda an thju Rêne fon-t êna enda alon et ôre ende thâ. To jenst-vr tha Dênamarka aend that Juttarlând hêdon wi folkplantinga mith en burchfâm, dâna wonon wi kâper aend yser, bijvnka târ, paek aend svma ôr bihof. To jenst vr vs formêlich Westland thêr hêdon wi Brittanja mith sina tinlâna. Brittanja thaet was thaet lând thêra bannalinga, thêr mith hulpe hjarar burchfâm wêi brith wêron vmbe hira lif to bihâldana. Thach for that hja navt to baek kvma ne skolde, warth er êrost en B to fâra hjara staer priked, tha bana mith râde blod farve aend tha ôra misdêdar mith blâwe farve. Buta aend bihalva hêdon vsa stjurar aend kâpljvd mêni loge anda hêinde Krêkalanda aend to Lydia. In vr Lydia thêr send tha swarta minniska. Thâ vs lând sâ rum aend grât wêre, hêdon wi fèlo asondergana nâmon. Thêra tham saton biâsten tha Dênemarka wrdon Juttar hêton, uthâvede hja tomet navt owers ne dêdon as barn-stên juta. Hja tham thêr saton vppa êlanda wrdon Lêtne hêten, thrvchdam hja mêst al vrlêten lêvadon. Alle strând aend skor hêmar fon-a Dênemarka alont thêre Saendfal nw Skelda wrdon Stjurar (17) , Sêkaempar (18) aend Angelara (19) hêton. Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar vmbe that hja alan mith angel jefta kol fiskton aend nimmer nên netum. Thêra thêr thâna til tha hêinde Krêkalânda sâton, wrdon blât Kâd-hêmar hêten, thrvch tham hja ninmerthe buta foron. Thêra thêr in da hâge marka sâton, thêr anna Twisklanda pâlon, wrdon Saxmanna hêton, uthâwede hja immer wêpned wêron vr thaet wilde kwik aend vrwildarda Britne. Thêr to [p. 70] boppa hêdon wi tha nôma Landsâton, Mârsata (20) aend Holtjefta Wodsâta.


Eer de boze tijd kwam, was ons land het schoonste in de wereld. De zon rees hoger en er was zelden vorst. Aan de bomen en heesters groeiden vruchten en ooft, die nu verloren zijn. Onder de grasplanten hadden we niet alleen gerst, haver en rogge, maar ook tarwe, die als goud blonk en die men onder de zonnestralen kon bakken. De jaren werden niet geteld, want het ene jaar was even vrolijk als het andere. Aan de ene zijde werden we door Wralda's zee besloten, waarop geen volk behalve we mocht varen, noch kon. Aan de andere zijde werden we door het brede Twiskland (Duitsland, Land van de Teutonen) omtuind, waardoor het volk van Finda niet durfde komen, wegens de dichte wouden en het wild gedierte. Ten oosten paalden we tot het uiteinde van de Oostzee, en ten westen aan de Middellandse zee, zodat we buiten de kleine rivieren wel twaalf grote zoetwater stromen hadden, ons door Wralda gegeven om ons land vochtig te houden en om onze zeevaarders de weg naar zijn zee te wijzen. De oevers van deze stromen werden bijna alle door ons volk bezeten, ook de velden aan de Rijn, van 't ene einde tot het andere toe. Tegenover de Denemarken en het Juttenland hadden we volkplantingen met een burchtmaagd. Van daar wonnen we koper en ijzer, benevens teer, pik en sommige andere benodigdheden. Tegenover ons voormalig Westland (kustgebied tussen Sincfal en Seine) hadden we Brittannie met zijn tinlanden (Cornwall). Brittannië was het land van de ballingen, die met behulp van hun burchtmaagd weggetrokken waren, om hun lijf te behouden. Maar opdat ze niet terug zouden komen, werd eerst een B. voor hun voorhoofd getatoeëerd, de gebannenen met rode bloedverf, de andere misdadigers met blauwe verf. Bovendien hadden onze zeelieden en kooplieden menige loods (factorij) in de heinde Krekalanden (Italië) en in Lydia. In Lydia (Lybia) zijn de zwarte mensen. Daar ons land zo ruim en groot was, hadden we veel afzonderlijke namen. Die welke gezeten waren ten oosten van de Denemarken, werden Jutten genoemd, [Etym.] uithoofde ze bijna anders niet deden dan barnsteen jutten(aan het strand zoeken). Die welke woonden op de eilanden werden Letten geheten, [Etym.] omdat ze meestal verlaten leefden. Alle strand en kustbewoners van de Denemarken af tot aan de Sandval (Sincfal), nu Schelde, werden Stuurlieden, Zeekampers en Angelaren geheten. Angelaren zo noemde men te voren de buitenvissers, [Etym.] omdat ze alleen met hengelof hoekwant visten, en nooit netten (gebruikten). Die welke van daar tot aan het naaste Krekaland woonden, werden eenvoudig Kadhemers (kustbewoners) genoemd, [Etym.]omdat ze nimmer buiten voeren (maar aan de kade bleven). Die in de Hoge marken gezeten waren, welke aan de Twisklanden paalden, werden Saxmannen geheten, [Etym.] uithoofde ze altijd gewapend waren [met een dolkmes of Sax] tegen het wild gedierte en de verwilderde Britten. [71] Daarenboven hadden we de namen Landzaten, Marzaten en Hout- of Woudzaten.

Chapter XXI: This stands inscribed upon all burghs -1. Before the bad time came our land was the most beautiful in the World. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost. The trees and shrubs produced various fruits, which are now lost. In the fields we had not only barley, oats, and rye, but wheat which shone like gold, and which could be baked in the sun's rays. The years were not counted, for one was as happy as another. 2. On one side we were bounded by Wr-alda's Sea, on which no one but us might or could sail; on the other side we were hedged in by the broad Twiskland, through which Finda's people dared not come on account of the thick forests and the wild beasts. 3. Eastward our boundary went to the extremity of the Aster Sea, and westwards to the Middel Sea; so that besides the small rivers we had twelve large rivers given us by Wr-alda to keep our land moist, and to show our seafaring men the way to his sea. 4. The banks of these rivers were at one time entirely inhabited by our people, as well as the banks of the Rene from one end to the other. 5. Opposite Denamark and Juttarland we had colonies and a burgh-femme. Thence we obtained copper and silver, as well as tar and pitch, and some other necessaries. 6. Opposite to us we had Brittania, formerly Westland, with her tin mines. 7. Brittania was the land of the exiles, who with the help of their burgh-femme had gone away to save their lives; but in order that they might not come back they were tattooed with a "B" on the forehead, the banished with a red dye, the other criminals with blue. 8. Moreover, our navigators and merchants had many factories among the Heinde Krekalandar and in Lydia. In Lydia the people are black. 9. As our country was so great and extensive, we had many different names. Those who were settled to the east of Denamark were called Juttar, because often they did nothing else than look for amber on the shore. Those who lived in the islands were called Letne, because they lived an isolated life. 10. All those who lived between Denamark and the Sandfal, now the Skelda, were called Stiurar, Sekampar, and Angelarar. The Angelarar were men who fished in the sea, and were so named because they used lines and hooks instead of nets. 11. From there to Heinde Krekaland the inhabitants were called Kadhemar, because they never went to sea but remained ashore. 12. Those who were settled in the higher marches bounded by Twiskland were called Saxmannar, because they were always armed against the wild beasts and the savage Britne. 13. Besides these we had the names Landsaton, Marsatar, and Holt- or Wodsatar.

Edited by Knul, 29 December 2011 - 07:53 PM.


#9117    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:03 PM

View PostOtharus, on 29 December 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Many things that were considered utterly insane and unbelievable by most 19th century experts, are actually quite plausible for us nowadays...

Really? But they were sane enough to leave out Friso battling a dragon (which he did, according to legend) or leave out the Red Cliff being a volcano (which was already known to be nothing but some hill and nothing more).


#9118    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:08 PM

Menno, I am getting really tired of sentences like these: "because all territory from Middelsea (Leeuwarden) to Sincfal was left out by Abramelin".

I have mentioned and discussed that long before you even showed up here.

If you do not know how to use the search tool here (which is bloody obvious to anyone because you repeat stuff many here have discussed to shreds long ago), please ask, and do not assume things.

I have mentioned "Magna Frisia" many times.

This thread started 22th of June 2010.

Just in case you forgot.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 08:23 PM.


#9119    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:27 PM

Menno, jongen, *I* know how to concoct a hoax, but you will never have a clue in your whole life how to do it.

You take things too literally.

I take the OLB with a grain (no, a bag) of salt.

Believe me, some day I will post the missing part of the OLB, and someone like *you* will take it, hook, line and sinker.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 08:28 PM.


#9120    Abramelin

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:39 PM

And now I will repeat an idea I had months ago:

We all, Puzz, Alewyn, Otharus, Knul, me, and anyone else able to read the OLB (the original text, not the translation made by Sandbach or a Tony Steele) should get together and publish a new and improved transliteration, and translation into English of the OLB.

For any word we don't agree on we will add footnotes (and no doubt these footnotes will be the largest part of the text, lol).

We need internet space to bicker about that translation.

I have a 'blogspot', and so does Otharus.

I can't talk for Otharus, but I think I can find out how to allow only the ones I mentioned to post on my blogspot.

Maybe it should go like this: I post a transliteration and translation of page -1-, and then all of you add your comments and I will change the text according to all of your comments.

And when we are finished with page -1- of the OLB manuscript, we continue with page -2- .

Btw: your comments should be short and on topic, not a tome about Greek/Roman myths (that's one for you Puzz. Not trying to piss you off, just suggesting to post as concise as you can manage. Alas, my idea about you is that you shoot with hail, lol. Shoot on target, pls. You know (well, I hope you do) I respect your view on things, but there are many times I have not the faintest clue where your reasoning is leading to).

Tell me what you all think of this idea.

To me it is about time some people get together and post an accurate transliteration/translation of the OLB.

I am getting really tired of reading online about opinions and ideas concerning the OLB, and based on a wrong transliteration/translation (like "Atland" being nothing but Doggerland, or even Plato's "Atlantis". To me it proves mosst people never really bothered to read the original text, they just gobble up what some d*** made out of the OLB).

To stress my point a bit more: if you all want the OLB to be taken seriously, we all should at least make an effort to publish a correct transliteration and translation.


Btw: I know many here will think I am... often a bit off... so if an Otharus or anyone else would want to offer his/her internet-space, it will be perfectly fine with me.

+++++

EDIT:

And if Alewyn wants to add that new and improved transliteration/translation to the third edition of his book, I would not mind at all, and I hope all of you feel the same. It's HIS book that started this thread, and it is HIS book we all read.

Just to stress that I do not 'hate' him (as some people suggested in their emails to me, jeesh).

I do not - and never did - 'hate' anyone participating in this thread.

OK, sometimes the discussion flares up a bit, but guys and girls: we can take that, right? I was brought up as the youngest of 4 brothers; that should give one a thick skin, lol. Yep, I may sound pissed off many times, but that's just a (what's the right English word??) period.







.

Edited by Abramelin, 29 December 2011 - 10:06 PM.